Gray Guys/Girls Maturing Triathlete Mentor Group (Page 8)

David,

You need to gently pull the discs back.  It takes a fair amount of pressure and patience to move the entire lane's worth of discs back but they will move far enough to be effective.  If they snap right back, you just didn't pull gently enough or long enough.

Scott - I can't recall if we have ever discussed "strokes per length" or "distance per stroke" but with using my new garmin I notice it shows for example that today I averaged 15 strokes per length.  That would mean 30 strokes with both arms which I would have thought is high.  Is this something to focus on and try to bring down maybe with longer reaching or a short glide?  Or, is this something that corrects itself with further practice and faster paces.

I know I can lower my stroke count to 21 by doing a "catch-up" drill but it slows me down and I can't maintain it long.  

Yesterday, I ran for 1:30 then this morning I had a hard (for me) swim.  Then I ran an unplanned 20 minutes easy run immediately before my cycling class which turned out to be a 20 minute TT.  Somehow I managed to finish but I was absolutely wiped out by the end.  I tried to spin a Zn 4 effort but I couldn't maintain the momentum.  All things considered I still had a decent result but it took me a fair while to recuperate.  Tomorrow I just have weights so I'm looking forward to an easy day.

Thanks Dave, I'm a bit slow with technology but I'll give this a try.

Okay..newbie question here.  What is foam rolling?  How does it relate to Triathlon training? 

I was on the road for 8 hours a week ago Saturday and missed a long work out.  This was was a recovery week so I asked a a coach if it would really make any sense doing a recovery week this week when I was 40% under my planned hours last week.  I also asked if it would be better to go 15 minutes longer on my other work outs on future weeks if I knew that I had to miss a day to hit my planned volume for the week or if I should just leave the other work outs as they were and come up short for the week.  I was told it would be better to foam roll for 15 minutes than to add 15 minutes to a work out because they would be junk miles.  So what is this foam rolling.  I am guessing it is probably some type of self massaging but am not sure how it is done or when it is beneficial.  If I am not feeling any lactate build-up, soreness or fatigue does it do anything for me at all it is is also a junk use of time?  

Okay...another newbie question.  What are junk miles?  In college my running coach wanted me to get up to 100 miles a week.  I didn't have the base for that and if I hit 60 I felt I was doing good.  Since college I have experiment with my own training I have notices that when I do the :minimal volume type training plans that I can have a good race (and even PR) if I am well rested, pace well, and have a gentle course but if the conditions are not perfect that I run into trouble and my race comes unraveled.  When I am on a high volume training plan it doesn't matter if there is high wind, rain, high heat, if I go out too fast, if there are big hills, etc.I have the strength to work through any unexpected challenges and still have a good race.  So how is adding 15 minutes to a work out junk miles?  I am usually way under the volume that "a Coach" would want me to be at and always seem to benefit from doing more volume.

So...I have heard a lot of talk about foam rolling and a lot of talk about junk miles, but really don't understand what either of these are.  I guess I should have asked the coach but didn't want to sound stupid. 

Thanks Marc.  I looked up what a foam roller is.  I was envisioning something like this.

I wasn't sure how the above would be used.

The ones below I am sure what people mean when they talk of foam rolling and they look like they are used more like a medicine ball than a massager.  

I have been doing Triathlon for 2-1/2 years now but still get lost with a lot of the lingo in the sport. :-)

My apologies to everyone for being AWOL for a few days.  One of my clients had a major failure that took their network off-line.  Amazing how those pesky clients actually expect their IT guy to immediately drop everything and get things running again AFTER their IT guy warned them of the potential for a catastrophic failure if they didn't make some changes.

Oh well, you can lead a horse to water and all that . . .

I shall get off my soap box now before I get myself in trouble!

Hey George,

Strokes-per-length (SPL), distance-per-stroke (DPS), and strokes-per-minute (SPM) are all measures of how efficient your stroke is.

One thing to remember is that SPL and DPS are specific to YOU.  You can't take your number and compare it to my number or anyone else's number.  As an example, you said your strokes per length is 30.  Assuming a 25-yard pool, my SPL is 14 at threshold pace and 15 at a full sprint.  Does that mean I'm a more efficient swimmer?  Or is it a reflection of the fact that I'm 6'5" tall, have VERY long arms, and have nearly 50,000,000 meters in my training bank.

SPL (as well as the other metrics) can be a valuable metric to look at occasionally, but I don't put a great deal of stock into it unless there is a clear problem or you are making stroke changes.  For example, you identify that you are not reaching full extension at entry or at release - you need to lengthen your stroke.  You note your SPL and SPM at the beginning of the process.  As you begin to make technique changes, you see that your SPL is getting lower.  That implies increased efficiency.  You are going a greater distance with each stroke (DPS).  However, your pace isn't really changing.  Then you note that while you are taking fewer strokes per length, you are also taking less strokes per minute (SPM).  The task then becomes increasing your SPM while maintaining the longer stroke.  Once that is done you will have gotten faster with a lower SPL. 

Garmin has a metric that looks at precisely this - SWOLF.  SWOLF combines strokes per length with your time per length in seconds.  For example (using a 25 yard pool as an example), you take 25 strokes per length and it takes you 0:20 to swim 25-yards - your SWOLF score would be 45.  In theory, the lower that score, the more efficient you are swimming.  I don't fully accept that premise as I can swim 25 yards in 20 seconds while taking 24 strokes per length or I can swim 25 yards in 25 seconds, taking 20 strokes per length. The first example has a SWOLF of 44 while the second example has a SWOLF of  45, yet arguably the 25 yards in 25 seconds with only 20 strokes was more efficiently swum.  Personally, I prefer to look at SPL and SPM separately to remove that confusion.

Now to your question specifically.  Having never seen you swim it's hard to determine if 30 SPL is appropriate.  I can say however, that if you can bring it down to 21 by incorporating a glide, you are probably not swimming as efficiently as you can.  The reason you are slowing down when you introduce a long glide is two-fold - a) your SPM goes down, and b) with a long glide, you have phases where there is NO propulsion.  For example, consider this, when your right hand has gotten to release and begun to recover, yet your left hand continues to glide in front of you - waiting for your right arm to "catch-up," there is no forward propulsion.  During that brief moment, you are slowing down and losing momentum.  When you begin the stroke with your left arm, you will have to overcome that increased resistance because you are going slower, which further slows you down.

I personally am not a fan of the "catch-up drill."  Indeed, I think it's been at least 10-years since I last recommended someone do that drill.  There are some swim "methods" that you will hear talk of here on BT that espouse "front-quadrant timing."  To achieve that, those methods have you doing catch-up drills until you are dreaming about catch-up drills.  True front quadrant timing will have both hands in the water above your shoulders before you begin another stroke.  I prefer what I call 3/4 catch up timing.  I like to see one and only one hand in the water above my shoulders at all times.  That means you begin your stroke so that the pulling hand is passing the shoulder as your other hand enters the water.  In this manner, you never have a dead spot in your stroke.  More importantly, you will have a stroke that can instantly be modified for conditions.  In extremely rough water condition as you might find in the ocean, a shorter, choppier stroke will get you through the water better while a long smooth stroke will better serve you in the smooth water of a calm lake.

There is no "right" SPL number that you should target.  To improve stroke efficiency and reduce SPL work on lengthening your stroke - begin the stroke at full extension after entry, get to full extension prior to release.  I always remember I want to feel my thumb "pulling my thigh up" as it gets to full extension and I begin body rotation to the entry side.  Second, establish an early vertical forearm at the moment of the catch and keep the elbow high throughout the stroke.  The single biggest difference between elite swimmers and all other swimmers is that elite swimmers have an immensely superior catch.  If you want a powerful, efficient and fast stroke, develop an effective catch.

Hope that answers your question.

Hey Curtis,

Judging by a post you made after the above, I'm going to make the assumption you have your question about foam rolling answered.

I'll take a second and make a quick comment on missed workouts.  I touched on this a couple weeks ago but it bears repeating.  Assuming you have some sort of plan you are following, I generally say if you miss a workout - for any reason - let it go.  You can't change history so move on to the next workout.  Almost invariably, when you try to make-up a missed workout, you will "get into trouble."  This especially applies when you are coming up to a recovery week as you indicated you were.  Say you're on a 4-week cycle - 3 weeks build, one week recovery.  If you alter your recovery week, say you increase volume to make up for the volume you missed the prior week, that alters your entire cycle.  Now, with the altered recovery week, instead of build 3 weeks, recover one week, you'd be building 4 weeks and recovering one week the next cycle.  That can have HUGE implication if you are in a particularly challenging build phase.  I know in my case, there are times where my body is crying out for recovery as I get to a recovery week.  If I were to pile another build week on at that point, I would be placing myself in jeopardy of over-reaching or worse.  If you miss a workout or two, simply resume your schedule where you are at that point in time and let the missed workouts go.

Junk miles.  If you talk to 20 different people, you may well get 20 different opinions on what constitutes junk miles or junk workouts.  I am a strong believer in knowing precisely why you are doing what you are doing EVERY single workout and knowing exactly what that workout will do for you.  If you can't answer those questions, the workout may well be a "junk workout."  When talking about miles, it's a little harder to define.  There are some people that define junk run miles as any miles run at a slow pace.  However, during base, it isn't uncommon to be running long slow miles.  I take it back to can you define WHY you are doing what you are doing.  I agree with Mark that if there is a way to achieve the same or better result with a different method then you may be putting in junk miles/workouts.  The "problem" with running is the pounding your body is exposed to.  Yes, you can arguably get a "bigger bang for the buck" running at a faster pace - but you also increase the risk of injury.  That risk rises exponentially related to pace.  If you're trying to achieve some arbitrary weekly mileage total, than miles may well be junk miles.  For me it always comes down to can you define why are you doing the workout.

Edited to add:  There's no such thing as a silly question or sounding stupid.  Silly or stupid is not knowing something and continuing on in spite of that lack of knowledge.  Please, for your own well-being and self edification, don't ever hesitate to ask a question for fear of it being silly or sounding stupid - there's no such thing.

Hope that helps.

The first question you have to answer is, "What is your goal for the race?"  I know you said, "I just want a simple one that will get me across the line in good health."  What does that mean?  Do you hope to merely get across the finish line?  Finish the race with a simile on your face?  Maybe you'd like to compete?  Perhaps you see yourself with an age-group podium finish?  Do you dream of standing on the overall podium?  All of those disparate goals conform to "get me across the line in good health."

All of those disparate goals would also require substantially different plans and training volume.

A plan that is thought out in advance (or a pre-written plan such as those here on BT) will keep you on track throughout your training.  It will help keep your training balanced and perhaps most importantly will allow for proper recovery.

What's the "minimum" you need to do in order to achieve your goal?  I'll share with you what I advocate to the athletes I work with as a starting point for a middle of the pack Ironman finish and you can adjust from there.  

• For the swim I like to see a build up to 4-weeks of 1.5-2.0 times the race distance swim 3-4 times a week.  For an Ironman that works out to 5,300 to 8,400 yards a minimum of three times a week.  The 4-week block at the highest volume would conclude 2-weeks prior to the race.
• Cycling I like to see a build to a minimum of 8-10 hours per week on the bike including at least 6 century rides plus two race simulations approaching race distance at race pace.  The final race simulation would be the beginning of the taper/peak for the race.
• The run I suggest a build to a minimum of ~ 35 miles per week or 56km for at least four weeks.  How that mileage is divided up is open to debate based upon a number of factors.

I like to see the minimum training volume necessary to achieve the desired physiological response to achieve your goals.  What is that volume for you?  There are far too many variables to provide a simple "one size fits all" answer.  Will the BT beginner plan get you across the finish line?  Yes, if you have a decent base level of fitness before you begin and provided you diligently follow the plan.

Hope that answers the question.

Yep...that helps.  Thanks Scott!  

Originally posted by triosaurus Howdy everyone Ran a 10km trail race this morning. It was postponed from last week due to ice. It was a bit muddy, but pretty good conditions, and the weather was good - About 2* C, no rain, little wind. I was hoping to run 60 - 62 min, but managed 64... I have been dealing with really tight / sore hips and lower back which is a carry-over from my youth... Overall, a good day, tho

I raced this week end too.  I did a 5K so you worked a lot harder than I did.  I had 13 deg C weather (today is is back down to freezing) so it was a perfect race day.  I was hoping to PR with the good weather but came in about 15 seconds slower than what I had been averaging over the past year and a half.  I broke the course record in the 3rd year of the race so I got to be a big fish in a little pond (puddle really) for a day.  I moved to the town I live about a year and a half ago.  It took me about a year to track down another Triathlete.  I now have come across three in town.  They were all at the race as well as my next door neighbor who moved in about 6 months ago who I run with twice a week.  It was fun to have a home town group at the race. I am starting to feel at home in the new town.  :-) 

Hey Kelly,

Thanks for asking.  I don't know that I'd go so far as to say "healed," but the ankle is doing much better.  The swelling is gone and so long as I don't do something stupid it stays gone.  When I get over about 6-miles it starts to hurt a bit so I've been keeping my longest runs below 5 miles for the time being.  Hopefully a couple more weeks and I can go back to a normal run schedule.

Hey all!  I haven't gone away, just been really busy lately.  We had an unusually warm weekend so I hit the trails on Saturday and got in just under 10 miles - longest run I've done in quite some time.  Rainy, yucky day on Sunday so I spent the day doing household chores and watching football.  Got up extra early yesterday to get to the pool before work.  I had a good swim, 1700m - not fast, but I didn't feel like I was fighting the water like I do sometimes.  Also managed to get in a quick 2.1 miles at the park after work yesterday.  I was hoping to do 4-5 but with the wind, I ended up cutting it short.  I can run in just about any conditions (cold, rainy, snowy, dark) but I'm a bit of a wimp when it comes to wind, especially cold wind.  SRD for today.

Janet

Originally posted by noldowney I made it through the week and had a good swim today. Have been feeling ho hum about training. Likely due to warmer weather and then back to the freezer. Doesn't make it appealing to head out for the workout. Still got in most of my workouts but more just doing them than actively working at it. Hopefully it will warm up again and the motivation will come back. Glad I have a support group to encourage me to keep with it...

Hey David,

Yep, the winter months can be a challenge.  I'm going to say something, and as I say it, please know it's not directed at YOU.  However, you said, "got in most of my workouts but more just doing them than actively working at it," which neatly segues into a brief discussion about the mental side of sport and training..

I firmly believe that excellence in sport is 90% mental and 10% physical.

Hey Chet,

I have used rollers in the past and didn't care for them at all.  I found them to be hard to use and difficult to stay comfortably on.  That's just my personal opinion, I know others who really like them.  That said, I think in the long run, you will be happier with a trainer.  You can likely find a used trainer for not much more than a set of rollers.  If you have a trainer, you can take advantage of any of the cycling training platforms out there now days - Trainer Road, Sufferfest App, and Zwift to name a few.  All of those allow you to use virtual power so you can take advantage of power in your training without having to purchase a power meter.  On rollers, if you don't have a power meter, you are pretty much just riding along.  With a trainer and one of the apps, you are TRAINING.

Just my two-cents.

Well, the weekend is here again!

We finally have some sunshine here after days of rain - a highly unusual event in Southern California of late.  We needed the rain badly, but sure glad to see the clouds go away.

Does anyone have anything special planned this weekend?  I know it's still early but anyone racing?

I'm going to take advantage of the weather and take a ride down to the beach - because I can.

I've been distracted by a malfunctioning vehicle for the last couple days.  Finally got it fixed but missed a couple workouts so I have 90 minute bike followed by a 20 min T2 Easy run tomorrow morning.  Then Sunday I'm considering a swim and weights to make up for what I missed today.  It's not necessary I make up the workouts so I could scale them back a bit.

I did get to run 1:42 outside on Wednesday.  It felt great to get outside and avoid the dreadmill.

There is a Splash n Dash at our Rec Centre on Sunday that I was considering doing - maybe I should do it in place of the workouts I missed.  The swim is 750m and the run is 3 km.  So even as slow as I am on the run I would be finished in about 40 min.

Have a good weekend everyone and I'll try to catch-up on the recent posts pretty quickly.