Other Resources The Political Joe » Masterstroke! Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2018-03-02 6:11 PM

User image

Expert
2373
20001001001002525
Floriduh
Subject: Masterstroke!
Indicating that a steel/aluminum tariff is in the offing, suggesting that a trade war would be easy to win. This guy is not just playing 4D chess, he's making moves well into his 2nd term. Heck, I didn't need that money in my 403b anyway.


2018-03-02 6:25 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
I moved more money into the market yesterday.....I like his moves. We all thought hell was raining down when we got away from middle East oil....and look what happened. Let's get our steel mills rolling again!!! I'm for build and buy American!!
2018-03-02 7:06 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

User image

Pro
9391
500020002000100100100252525
Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Have to think for the long ball.  The US economy has been declining for decades as a result of the imbalanced trade.  There's no question there will be some short term pain, but it will be far better in the long run to balance things out.

2018-03-02 9:16 PM
in reply to: tuwood

User image

Expert
2373
20001001001002525
Floriduh
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
I know, it's amazing. I do not understand why ALL of the world markets and business leaders reacted negatively. We pretty much dropped trade tariffs back in the 40's and Lordy how the economy of this country has suffered during those years. Trump will show those snooty free market capitalists how this economying thing is done. Besides, he said it would be easy!



(ff493d601ac99f7eb2f173c7d8b20a01.jpg)



Attachments
----------------
ff493d601ac99f7eb2f173c7d8b20a01.jpg (75KB - 0 downloads)
2018-03-02 9:46 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Expert
2373
20001001001002525
Floriduh
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
You will need this graph to show just how much the US economy suffered during that era of laissez faire tariff policy.
Mr.Trump will straighten that right out very quickly. 4D chess indeed!

Edited by Oysterboy 2018-03-02 9:57 PM




(djiahist1945.png)



Attachments
----------------
djiahist1945.png (3KB - 0 downloads)
2018-03-02 10:02 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

User image

Pro
9391
500020002000100100100252525
Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Originally posted by Oysterboy You will need this graph to show just how much the US economy suffered during that era of laissez faire tariff policy. Thank you Mr. Trump.

heavy handed with the misleading graphs are we tonight?
The first one is hilarious because of course the duties from tariffs will drop when you remove the tariffs... duh
The second one was the boom from PC's and the internet that had nothing to do with trade.  Ironically that "boom" was promptly outsourced to China and the markets had virtually zero growth for the next 10-15 years.  China continued the growth curve of our 90's and we gave it to them.  China didn't innovate any of the technology, but they reaped the rewards of it.  Think about that.
We had Gateway, Dell, Intel, etc that were all manufacturing computers in America and then they stopped.
There's a gabillion sq. ft' factory in Sioux City, IA (where I grew up) that had tens of thousands of jobs and it practically ran the local economy in my home town.  They desperately tried to keep manufacturing in the US, but everyone else dumped everything off shore to slave labor and they couldn't compete and sold out (to an outsourcer).
I used to be one that shrugged it off as simple economics and they just needed to compete better, but it's a lot bigger than that.  These countries are not playing by the same rules and they are not playing fair.  They're just taking and taking without giving anywhere close to as much back.
I don't know if Trumps tariff policies by themselves will have huge effects, but I do believe that his tax plan, combined with his tough stance on leveling the playing field through whatever means necessary including tariffs will move things in a far better direction for America.
On a total side note, I love the shift with liberals.  They used to be for the American workers and the Republicans were all about outsourcing all their jobs to help big business donors' bottom line.  Now it's almost completely inverted because the little handed orange man is in office.  I'm still scratching my head on that one.



2018-03-02 10:45 PM
in reply to: tuwood

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

OB........that was some seriously misleading crazy liberal shiznit you posted tonight.  I'm gonna guess you've been getting your grape drank on.

2018-03-02 10:47 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Originally posted by Oysterboy  I do not understand why ALL of the world markets and business leaders reacted negatively. 

Seriously, you don't?  LMAO

 

2018-03-03 6:32 AM
in reply to: 0

User image

Expert
2373
20001001001002525
Floriduh
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
DP, sorry. D@mn Obama.


Edited by Oysterboy 2018-03-03 6:41 AM
2018-03-03 6:39 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Expert
2373
20001001001002525
Floriduh
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
So free-market, free-trade based capitalism is a liberal idea? Of course it is, Mr. Trump will fix that liberal hoax.

Tony, we did indeed lose a lot of manufacturing jobs, that is unequivocal; however, as an economy we offset those losses with tremendous growth in energy (fracking mostly, but renewables as well), technology (computer, biotech, pharma), and financial sectors. You can see this is GDP growth over time, really pretty steady except for that recession in 2008, d@mn Obama.

What we need to do is find a way to re-develop those lost manufacturing jobs and, most-importantly, the middle-income wages earned by low-to-mid skill workers that come with these types of jobs. Changing some tax policies may help drive this (still a bit early to judge that), but as the above graphs show, tariffs have never accomplished this and neither have trade wars. Actually the opposite, and the markets reacted accordingly, but Trump knows stuff that the business and economics minds don't. 4D chess.






(Canada-and-US-GDP-growth-1900-to-2016-Graph-T2-e1484771756645.png)



Attachments
----------------
Canada-and-US-GDP-growth-1900-to-2016-Graph-T2-e1484771756645.png (82KB - 0 downloads)
2018-03-03 6:49 AM
in reply to: Oysterboy

User image

Expert
2373
20001001001002525
Floriduh
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
Queen's Own: Note that GDP graph shows how Canada has suffered under laissez faire trade policy, you guys need to get your own Trump so you can fix that quick!


2018-03-05 6:51 AM
in reply to: 0

User image

Champion
10154
500050001002525
Alabama
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
I have no idea if the new tarrifs will start a trade war but I think that will be short lived. Saving our aluminum and steel industries are critical.....to national security....which is how the president is able to do this without congress. At least that is my understanding.

The idea that we can exist as a strong nation having to rely on China for our aluminum and steel is dangerous.

This is Trump’s hard core opening bid....on NAFTA and other trade deals. He is doing exactly what he said he’d do if elected, make America competitive on a level playing field.

Edited by Rogillio 2018-03-05 7:02 AM
2018-03-05 6:56 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

I agree, Rog......all he is doing is what he promised to do in his campaign.  I've seen a lot of that in his first year.  I think it's refreshing.   I'm sick of politicians and all their bullshine......THIS IS WHY I VOTED FOR TRUMP.  

2018-03-05 10:18 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Veteran
485
100100100100252525
Elmira, ON
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
Trump has our metrosexual Prime Minister over an I beam... All our PM can do in response to Trump is make passive agressive threats, and pander to him to see what he can get... Strange days for Canada. Manufacturing is dying in Ontario anyways..so this wont have as much as an effect as it would have a decade ago...but it will still hurt...
2018-03-05 10:25 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

User image

, Arizona
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
Originally posted by Rogillio

The idea that we can exist as a strong nation having to rely on China for our aluminum and steel is dangerous.



Fake news. China barely makes the top 10 of our steel imports at 2.9%, most of our major suppliers are allies. Our largest is Canada at 16.7%. Sorry, I don't buy the "national security" BS the administration is using. Do we really think all our friends are going to stop selling us raw materials all of a sudden?

Domestic steel producers are being chosen as the winners, and all the industries who depend on lower cost steel for finished goods (MUCH larger than the steel industry) are the losers. Seems like it will make us less competitive.
2018-03-05 10:46 AM
in reply to: Synon

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Originally posted by Synon
Originally posted by Rogillio The idea that we can exist as a strong nation having to rely on China for our aluminum and steel is dangerous.
Fake news. China barely makes the top 10 of our steel imports at 2.9%, most of our major suppliers are allies. Our largest is Canada at 16.7%. Sorry, I don't buy the "national security" BS the administration is using. Do we really think all our friends are going to stop selling us raw materials all of a sudden? Domestic steel producers are being chosen as the winners, and all the industries who depend on lower cost steel for finished goods (MUCH larger than the steel industry) are the losers. Seems like it will make us less competitive.

Better tell CNN. LMAO



2018-03-05 10:51 AM
in reply to: Synon

User image

Champion
10154
500050001002525
Alabama
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
Originally posted by Synon

Originally posted by Rogillio

The idea that we can exist as a strong nation having to rely on China for our aluminum and steel is dangerous.



Fake news. China barely makes the top 10 of our steel imports at 2.9%, most of our major suppliers are allies. Our largest is Canada at 16.7%. Sorry, I don't buy the "national security" BS the administration is using. Do we really think all our friends are going to stop selling us raw materials all of a sudden?

Domestic steel producers are being chosen as the winners, and all the industries who depend on lower cost steel for finished goods (MUCH larger than the steel industry) are the losers. Seems like it will make us less competitive.


Are you telling me Trump worked the system?! I am appalled. ;-)

We’ve been taken advantage of for years running trade deficits. About time someone has the balls to start to rectify the ship.
2018-03-05 11:19 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

User image

, Arizona
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by Synon

Originally posted by Rogillio

The idea that we can exist as a strong nation having to rely on China for our aluminum and steel is dangerous.



Fake news. China barely makes the top 10 of our steel imports at 2.9%, most of our major suppliers are allies. Our largest is Canada at 16.7%. Sorry, I don't buy the "national security" BS the administration is using. Do we really think all our friends are going to stop selling us raw materials all of a sudden?

Domestic steel producers are being chosen as the winners, and all the industries who depend on lower cost steel for finished goods (MUCH larger than the steel industry) are the losers. Seems like it will make us less competitive.


Are you telling me Trump worked the system?! I am appalled. ;-)

We’ve been taken advantage of for years running trade deficits. About time someone has the balls to start to rectify the ship.


Make no mistake, I want to see our economy prosper too. Am I missing something? I don't see how this will give us an advantage, now our exported finished goods will be less competitive because the raw materials cost more. do you really think these countries are going to pay the tariff and not raise the price of steel to cover their additional expenses?

2018-03-05 12:14 PM
in reply to: Synon

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Originally posted by Synon
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Synon
Originally posted by Rogillio The idea that we can exist as a strong nation having to rely on China for our aluminum and steel is dangerous.
Fake news. China barely makes the top 10 of our steel imports at 2.9%, most of our major suppliers are allies. Our largest is Canada at 16.7%. Sorry, I don't buy the "national security" BS the administration is using. Do we really think all our friends are going to stop selling us raw materials all of a sudden? Domestic steel producers are being chosen as the winners, and all the industries who depend on lower cost steel for finished goods (MUCH larger than the steel industry) are the losers. Seems like it will make us less competitive.
Are you telling me Trump worked the system?! I am appalled. ;-) We’ve been taken advantage of for years running trade deficits. About time someone has the balls to start to rectify the ship.
Make no mistake, I want to see our economy prosper too. Am I missing something? I don't see how this will give us an advantage, now our exported finished goods will be less competitive because the raw materials cost more. do you really think these countries are going to pay the tariff and not raise the price of steel to cover their additional expenses?

No, they're going to deal, because they have no choice.  All this will end up being is renegotiation of existing deals.  About damn time.

2018-03-05 12:26 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

User image

Pro
9391
500020002000100100100252525
Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Originally posted by Rogillio I have no idea if the new tarrifs will start a trade war but I think that will be short lived. Saving our aluminum and steel industries are critical.....to national security....which is how the president is able to do this without congress. At least that is my understanding. The idea that we can exist as a strong nation having to rely on China for our aluminum and steel is dangerous. This is Trump’s hard core opening bid....on NAFTA and other trade deals. He is doing exactly what he said he’d do if elected, make America competitive on a level playing field.

The American consumer pretty much drives the world economy.  We have a very big "stick" when it comes to trade wars (if it comes to that).  We buy a lot of goods from overseas and they buy very little (comparatively).  Anyone who tries to retaliate will be shooting their own foot. (economically speaking)
Remember, these countries have effectively been engaged in a trade war for decades and we've let them without recourse.  Trump isn't starting a war, he's simply retaliating in kind to even the playing field.  Of course these countries won't like it, but that's the whole idea.

2018-03-05 12:30 PM
in reply to: Synon

User image

Pro
9391
500020002000100100100252525
Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Originally posted by Synon
Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Synon
Originally posted by Rogillio The idea that we can exist as a strong nation having to rely on China for our aluminum and steel is dangerous.
Fake news. China barely makes the top 10 of our steel imports at 2.9%, most of our major suppliers are allies. Our largest is Canada at 16.7%. Sorry, I don't buy the "national security" BS the administration is using. Do we really think all our friends are going to stop selling us raw materials all of a sudden? Domestic steel producers are being chosen as the winners, and all the industries who depend on lower cost steel for finished goods (MUCH larger than the steel industry) are the losers. Seems like it will make us less competitive.
Are you telling me Trump worked the system?! I am appalled. ;-) We’ve been taken advantage of for years running trade deficits. About time someone has the balls to start to rectify the ship.
Make no mistake, I want to see our economy prosper too. Am I missing something? I don't see how this will give us an advantage, now our exported finished goods will be less competitive because the raw materials cost more. do you really think these countries are going to pay the tariff and not raise the price of steel to cover their additional expenses?

I think it's a matter of looking at the bigger picture rather than the narrow picture.  When we look at tarrifs on a particular product you're absolutely right that it raises the price of that material and/or makes US based companies look more appealing from a price standpoint.  This in turn employs more people and increases the overall GDP and those employees spend more money.  All the additional economic growth leads to wage increases and on and on.
Obviously this stuff all takes time, but the fade to the negative has been going on for far too long and it needs to shift the other way.  Trump is doing exactly what he said he would do and I for one am very thankful for that.  Macro economics is a very complex thing with a lot of moving parts and it doesn't change quickly.  I'm sure there will be some short term pain as a result, but I'm willing to endure it for the long term benefits.



2018-03-05 12:43 PM
in reply to: tuwood

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Oh no!!  The world is being served notice that our country will no longer be patsy's on world trade.  Too damn bad.

2018-03-05 3:16 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

User image

Expert
2373
20001001001002525
Floriduh
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
I think the real question is what do we need to do to make our steel and aluminum industries competitive. If other countries are able to produce goods at a more competitive price then we should buy their goods, that just makes sense. If they manipulate markets to game the pricing then no, we should not buy their goods and call them out on unfair trade practices. But establishing tariffs to benefit one industry to the detriment of others sounds... like picking a winner. This is something that the right railed on Obama about.
2018-03-05 3:18 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

User image

Pro
15655
5000500050005001002525
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!

Originally posted by Oysterboy I think the real question is what do we need to do to make our steel and aluminum industries competitive. If other countries are able to produce goods at a more competitive price then we should buy their goods, that just makes sense. If they manipulate markets to game the pricing then no, we should not buy their goods and call them out on unfair trade practices. But establishing tariffs to benefit one industry to the detriment of others sounds... like picking a winner. This is something that the right railed on Obama about.

One word.............Middle Eastern Oil Industry.

We'll be just fine.

2018-03-05 3:19 PM
in reply to: 0

User image

Expert
2373
20001001001002525
Floriduh
Subject: RE: Masterstroke!
I'm telling ya, it's like cats and dogs sleeping together:

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-steel-aluminum-tariffs-blowbac...

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/04/trumps-steel-tariffs-are-earning-him...

Edited by Oysterboy 2018-03-05 3:20 PM
New Thread
Other Resources The Political Joe » Masterstroke! Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2