Gu for recovery?

Rob;
I'm pretty new at all this stuff too. I've read the same things. But I figure that as I've read it in articles by Mark Allen (multiple Ironman winner) and Chris Carmichael (Lance Armstrongs trainer) then it must be right. At the least I always try to eat a couple of handfuls of nuts after a workout for the protein. The nutrition aspect of training can be one of the most confusing parts of this sport to the beginner.

Ian

I'm pretty new to endurance sports but what I remember from my gym days was that you needa mix of carbs and protein for recovery. WHile the protein will build the muscles, the carbs will restore glycogen levels AND cause insulin levels to rise. Insulin opens a "gateway" allowing the protein and carbs to be stored. If you just burned up your glycogen levels with a workout, your body will (I believe) store those carbs as glycogen as opposed to fat. Of course, excess carbs get stored as fat. So the trick, as always, is not to overdo it.

Bodybuilders take in HUGE amounts of protein with a little carbs. I think for endurance exercise that balance must change somewhat...while we need higher than ADA recommended amounts of protein we also need carbs to restore our glycogen levels for our next workout. Endurance exercise uses a lot more of that glycogen than lifting weights does...

I don't know a lot about the South Beach diet so I don't know if GU fits in there or not. I guess you could take GU with protein if you wanted to but it doesn't sound very appetizing. Personally, I'd rather get my post workout carbs from food...Cindy

I have heard that you need a 4:1 ratio of carbs to protein after a workout. I have found that a peanut butter and jelly sandwhich is almost exactly 4:1.
In my opinion. Low carb diets and endurance racing don't mix. You are just asking for trouble. You are limiting the thing that keeps you going (fuel)
Take care
Tom

In my opinion it is best to get the important macronutrients (fats, protien, carbohydrates) from whole, natural food sources as opposed to gels, energy bars, and sports and recovery drinks. This does coincide with the general theme of the South Beach Diet (SBD) that you are following - which suggests that you get your daily nutrition from lean meats, vegetables, and fruits lower on the Glycemic Index( GI) and avoid processed, refined, and prepared foods.

Those who market and sell the energy products would like us to believe that we really NEED these products, but we don't. Gels and related products have their place - I find during races and very long workouts (>90 minutes) that gels and sports drinks are a valuable tool for hydration, electrolyte replacement, and energy. They are easy to transport and digest during a workout, on a bike, even in the water on a long swim. But once the workout is over I think it's better to use the natural food sources available to you for recovery and daily nutrition.

For workouts less than 90 minutes you should follow your regular diet and use water for hydration. There is no need for energy replacement during the shorter workouts, and no need for recovery eating afterwards. Avoid using gatorade and other high-carb sugary sports drinks - especially if weight loss is your goal. Avoid energy bars for the same reasons - they are very 'energy dense' and high in calories.

For workouts 90 minutes or more you do need to replace what your body has consumed during an extended effort. Most sources agree that you need both carbs and protien after a long workout. You can get these from whole grains, whole fruits and vegetables, nuts, natural peanut butter, eggs, lean meats, poultry, and fish.

Even the South Beach Diet makes this recommendation - immediately following a workout of 90 minutes or more they suggest eating breads and fruits that are higher on the Glycemic index (GI), then going back to your regular eating habits.

You can modify your diet, lose weight, and effectively train for triathlons at the same time. But with anything in life, I think moderation and balance is the key. For example, you cannot eliminate (or severely reduce) carbohydrates from your diet, but you can be smart about where you get them.

Just a quick note to add to the post previous to this one...BTW I couldn't agree more with getting your nutrition from whole foods as opposed to supplements, for all the reasons he stated. Besides, why on earth would you want Gu when you could have a banana?

I just wanted to add that if you are reducing carbs/cals and training daily, you could deplete yourself to the point that you need additional nutrients to get through a 90 minute workout. There IS a cumulative effect to constant dieting coupled with consistent training, depending on your duration and intensity. You really don't want to get to that point, it's counterproductive from both a weight loss AND training standpoint.

BTW, I haven't read the South Beach diet but I'm not a fan of low carb diets in general for active people. I tried it, I felt like garbage had no energy and lost a whopping 4 pounds in probably 2 1/2 months. three of those pounds come and go as they please, so they were water. As someone else pointed out, your body needs carbs for a high level of activity. As a dietician friend of mine put it once "Fat burns in a carbohydrate flame". (Sorry to steal your line if you're reading this Chris!)

Cindy

I agree with Cindy. Tried South Beach when I started training in January and kept bonking...

As for recovery...after a workout I'm drinking the Endurox immediately following. That helps with recovery a LOT. As far as energy for the next day, not being wiped the rest of the day, etc. I've converted a couple friends to it as well. You can really see/feel the difference. My advice, tho...go with the fruit punch flavor...the orange is just icky.

Chocolate endurox is really good too, couldn't agree more with the fact that it helps recovery - I ate a "balanced" meal last night after a short, easy 6 mile run (chicken, wild rice, squash, peas, carrots) and I don't feel as good today as I typically do after a more intense workout followed with endurox.

Seems to be key to take it in as quickly after the workout as possible, I usually make it ahead of time and drink it on the way back from the lake.

~Keith

Thanks folks.

Question on the endurox... Is that the R4?

I just wanted to add a few bullets to this thread:

1. Madcow: I'm glad to see you're doing the math on your food intake, but remember a PB&J sandwich is far from a 4:1 ratio as you are leaving a critical element out of your calculation: FAT. Although the CHO:PRO ratio may be 4:1, the fact that the fat content equals or in most cases exceeds the PRO content, this will have a detrimental effect on how this is absorbed. Also, the idea of creating a high insulin response post workout, is you want quality nutrients which aid in recovery to be quickly absorbed by your system. There is zero evidence that FAT will aid in the recovery process and if anything will reduce the efficacy of the CHO/PRO you are consuming.

2. The reason the SBD, The Zone, Atkins, etc... are successful is they achieve their results by creating a state where insulin levels are generally kept low. I am a fan of a well balanced CHO:PRO:FAT diet and have followed something which closely resembles The Zone's 40/30/30 ratios for over 10yrs and have been very happy with the results. In overly simplified terms, reasons these diets are successful is by regulating insulin (keeping this low), your body is less apt to store additional fat which is consumed during these meals. This is why if you consume an 800 calorie steak w/ 60g of fat it isn't immediately stored in your cells. Add in a baked potato a Coke (CHO which will raise insulin) and there will be a completely different response. Think of insulin as a gate keeper for your cells, when it is present, nutrients will enter, when it is not present, nutrients are less likely (again - an over simplified analogy).

3. Now, immediately post-workout, we want the exact opposite response as what is noted above. After a tough workout, I want those quality nutrients to be quickly absorbed into my system as soon as possible. If this insulin response was not important, recovery formulas such as Endurox R4 wouldn't contain any CHO. If you follow your SBD, The Zone, etc... immediately post workout, you are further delaying how quickly those good nutrients are absorbed into your system

As mentioned, I am a fan of these diets for the balance of your day, but in those 1st 30-60 minutes it is important to create a slightly different response than what you may be aiming for the other 23.5hrs of the day.

Hope this helps, please drop a post either here or on the PBN Forum if you have any questions.

Brian Shea
www.PersonalBestNutrition.com

I think for recovery, your best bet is to get some simple sugars (Gatorade/carbo drink) and protein. For me personally, I get 100 grams carbs and 50 grams protein (I know most endurance athletes probably don't go anywhere close to that much protein). This is the optimal time to ingest simple sugars. Your body will use all of them. As a CHEAP substitute for Gatorade or Accelerade, etc, get some dextrose. You can get a couple lbs for a couple bucks.

Thanks again for the great info!

1 more Question on the R4:
Is it recommended to take this after every run / ride or just after extended efforts? Of course, still planning on being on the SBD for a while longer, the amount of carbs has me "nervous." But, I also want to get the most out of my effort / recovery. I know, the best of both worlds!

Rob

Post workout you shouldn't be worried about these carbs. Your body will utilize them. Remember, most of these "fad" diets are geared toward sedentary folks, NOT athletes.

Rob,

I think you have to look at what part of the season you are in and the volume/intensity of your training. Currently I am in my final 12 week build into IM Hawaii so recovery is probably the most important component of each week w/ training volume between 20-30+hrs. I am much less concerned with weight gain for this next training cycle than when I am in December/January when o'all volume is light, so I will have an R4 or Ultragen after every workout.

As it seems (since you are on a diet), it would probably be overkill to consume the Endurox R4 after every workout. Assuming you have probably 3-4 'hard' workouts each week, you may want to just look into taking the R4 after these sessions.

Most of the athletes I work with will use these recovery formulas on a much more regular basis the closer they are to their respective 'A' race.

Brian Shea
www.PersonalBestNutrition.com