BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed. Rss Feed  
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2013-12-22 3:52 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by Donto

Mark,

Shane,

Not sure if I missed it, but what duration (months) are we looking at for this group?

Also, how many times per week are we looking at?




3 key workouts, 4 if you want
About 12 weeks give or take.

Shane sent me some notes and will be providing this very soon.


2013-12-22 4:34 PM
in reply to: Honey~Badger

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by Honey~Badger
trying to figure out the best program for my Mac computer that I can understand.



Welcome Lynne

Golden Cheetah, that we will be talking about a lot has a MAC version that works really well.
2013-12-22 4:43 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Hi Nicole, Did you get it to work ? I posted a youtube video for disabling the ant+ agent but I suspect you figured it out. Did you manage to use the training tab in GC ?

Other than making sure that it's working, I haven't tried it yet.  I will Tuesday though.  

Couple questions before I do: 1) GC won't automatically start like TrainerRoad, right?  TR will automatically start when it senses you pedaling (based on cadence, I think), but I think with GC, you'll have to click start, right?  2) Can you watch a video (like a Sufferfest video) and have GC still showing you all the target powers and whatnot?  I see how you can find certain SF profiles in there, but not sure if there's a mode that allows you to watch the video and still have the profiles showing.  TrainerRoad does this nicely, but I haven't played with GC enough to know if it also does.

I may try the ride using TR and capturing all the data in GC on Tuesday....heh, old habits die hard, I suppose!

2013-12-22 5:02 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by ligersandtions
1) GC won't automatically start like TrainerRoad, right?  TR will automatically start when it senses you pedaling (based on cadence, I think), but I think with GC, you'll have to click start, right?  


Correct

Originally posted by ligersandtions
2) Can you watch a video (like a Sufferfest video) and have GC still showing you all the target powers and whatnot?  I see how you can find certain SF profiles in there, but not sure if there's a mode that allows you to watch the video and still have the profiles showing.  


Yes you can use Sufferfests in the training tab.
In the training tab you can add "charts". On the rightmost side you see a litlle +
You can add a video "chart".
You need an erg file (workout file) for the given sufferfest video, they are available on the internet

You select the sufferfest video in the media section, the ergfile in the workout section, press Play, and they start in sync. I do all my sufferfests in GC.

Another cool "chart" you can add is StreetView. You drop that in the training tab. You download a Garmin GPX file, you select it, press play and the GC uses the GPX to get GPS coordinates, calls Google to get a video of that location and displays it. It's not 100% mature but pretty cool
2013-12-22 7:23 PM
in reply to: marcag


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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Name: Rich

Story: Started running at about 12 years old, and been a runner on and off since then (36 y/o now). Also did weight training on and off as well. Started getting serious in 2011 and ran my first marathon then. I decided I wanted to do triathlon, but had to learn to swim, focused on that and did my first Oly in July of 2012, and 70.3 in September. Did another 70.3 in May of 2013, and IMLP (first IM) in July. I've been having a lot of fun training, racing, learning, and getting progressively faster. I need to work on my cycling skills, even though I've only been swimming since last year, I consider cycling my weakest discipline. My goals are to run a sub- 3 hour marathon, and finish my IM in under 11 hours, and as close to 10:30 as I can manage.

Current Training: Running every day 40-50 mpw (actually 428 days in a row running 2 miles or more) this will increase to 60-70s mpw over the next few weeks, swimming 2-3x per week 2500-3000 yds per session, cycling...not as much as I would like...

2013 Races: My main races were 70.3 in May (5:07), IM Lake Placid in July (11:42), and the Philadelphia Marathon in Nov. (3:07).

2014 Races: NJ marathon May, IM Mont-Tremblant Aug, NYC marathon Nov.

Weightloss: Heavyish now. Was 166 for my IM, recently been upper 170s. Was 177 for my marathon last month. Want to drop 15 pounds to race this year.

What would make me a good mentee: I am driven to improve. I have defined goals for this year. The timing of this group is ideal, I just had a powermeter put on my bike, and just started reading "Training and Racing with a Powermeter," before this was announced.

Equipment: 2011 Cannondale Slice with Quarq Elsa PM and an Edge 705 computer (I was nervous since it wasn't listed as one of the compatible ones, but it seems to be working fine).
2013-12-23 5:35 AM
in reply to: ImSore

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by ImSore

2013 Races: My main races were 70.3 in May (5:07), IM Lake Placid in July (11:42), and the Philadelphia Marathon in Nov. (3:07).

2014 Races: NJ marathon May, IM Mont-Tremblant Aug, NYC marathon Nov.




Welcome Rich,

Some speedy times there.
You will really enjoy IMMT
It's a beautiful course. I will probably be volunteering this year. I did that in 2012 and really enjoyed it.

I am guessing you will be on a trainer for a while ?


2013-12-23 7:19 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
FYI, I just installed GC 3.0.1 which fixed the issue with the maps not working.

Chris


Download Release 3.0.1

This is a bug fix release with a few new features.

2013-12-23 8:14 AM
in reply to: croyston

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

I will be following this group from the outside as well and may pop in with some questions and provide some experiences.

Name:  Ryan

Story:  Married. 2 kids (2.5 & 7months).  Been doing triathlon since 2008.

Current Training:  Bike & Swim focus.  Run is my strong suit.  Just got a Powertap in early November.  I was using TR and virtual power for the last few years.  Looking to get into 70.3WC qualification type fitness this year.

2013 Races:  1 Olympic. 1 Sprint. Few 10Ks.  Had our second child so did not do much.

2014 Races:  Likely 3 Half Irons. Grand Rapids, Steelhead & Tawas with some Olympics sprinkled in.

What would make me a good mentee:  Been in mentor groups with Marc & Shane for the last few years.  Both are extremely knowledgable and look forward to learning alot more on training and racing with power.

2013-12-23 9:20 AM
in reply to: croyston

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by croyston

FYI, I just installed GC 3.0.1 which fixed the issue with the maps not working.

Chris


Download Release 3.0.1

This is a bug fix release with a few new features.




Thanks Chris

I just installed it and yes it solves a few things including uploads to Strava

I usually uninstall the previous version then install the new. All data and configurations seem to be preserved
2013-12-23 9:30 AM
in reply to: rymac

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by rymac
Looking to get into 70.3WC qualification type fitness this year.


Welcome Ryan

Based on your run and that bike workout you posted this AM, you are well on your way
2013-12-23 9:40 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

I've downloaded GC and was able to link my speed/cadence sensor and HRM (Marc - thanks for the Youtube video, very helpful!).

I use the Fluid2 trainer and, based on a quick test run, it appears that power is roughly 10 watts lower in GC as compared to Traineroad.  GC must be using a flatter power curve.

I know its all relative and so it won't make a difference for our workouts, but just a heads up for those Traineroad users with the Fluid2 - don't be too shocked if your FTP on GC is less than what it was on Traineroad.

 



2013-12-23 9:40 AM
in reply to: marcag


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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by ImSore

2013 Races: My main races were 70.3 in May (5:07), IM Lake Placid in July (11:42), and the Philadelphia Marathon in Nov. (3:07).

2014 Races: NJ marathon May, IM Mont-Tremblant Aug, NYC marathon Nov.




Welcome Rich,

Some speedy times there.
You will really enjoy IMMT
It's a beautiful course. I will probably be volunteering this year. I did that in 2012 and really enjoyed it.

I am guessing you will be on a trainer for a while ?


I'd like to mix it up a bit. I do enjoy getting out on the roads, but for the most part I will be on the trainer for the next few months. What I want to avoid is the "pointless pedaling," that I felt was the majority of my training through much of last years build. It wasn't until 2 months or so before my IM that I started really getting out on the road and realized that I had not been pushing myself enough on the trainer, just racking up miles. Hopefully with the PM this year, my training will be more focused, and I will see better improvement. And again, thanks for putting in the time for this group.
2013-12-23 9:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by Scott71

I've downloaded GC and was able to link my speed/cadence sensor and HRM (Marc - thanks for the Youtube video, very helpful!).

I use the Fluid2 trainer and, based on a quick test run, it appears that power is roughly 10 watts lower in GC as compared to Traineroad. 



Thanks. It felt kind of goofy doing it, but if it helps, it's worth being goofy

What's really important with Virtual Power is keeping the tire tension and pressure very consistent. As Scott mentionned even if the power numbers are not 100% accurate, as long as they are consistent, that's all that matters

I know that by playing with the tension I can make my Kinetic read 30w less than my PT or 30w more. So I basically never touch the tension, always pump my tire to 100PSI and deflate/reinflate the tire to get the bike on or off.

What tricks do you guys use ?

Edited by marcag 2013-12-23 9:54 AM
2013-12-23 10:05 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Oakville
Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Scott71

I've downloaded GC and was able to link my speed/cadence sensor and HRM (Marc - thanks for the Youtube video, very helpful!).

I use the Fluid2 trainer and, based on a quick test run, it appears that power is roughly 10 watts lower in GC as compared to Traineroad. 

Thanks. It felt kind of goofy doing it, but if it helps, it's worth being goofy What's really important with Virtual Power is keeping the tire tension and pressure very consistent. As Scott mentionned even if the power numbers are not 100% accurate, as long as they are consistent, that's all that matters I know that by playing with the tension I can make my Kinetic read 30w less than my PT or 30w more. So I basically never touch the tension, always pump my tire to 100PSI and deflate/reinflate the tire to get the bike on or off. What tricks do you guys use ?

I have the Fluid2 model with the tension gauge that flips up as shown in the website below (not the one that you have to dial in tension):

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/cycleops-fluid-2-trainer

And so, I always pump my tires to 100psi and then flip the yellow tension knob on the Fluid2.  I would guess with the additional pressure from the trainer flywheel, I am actually running at > 100 psi.

Marc - one thing you mention in your post above is that you can manipulate power on your KK.  I thought virtual power was a function of speed only - i.e. if you alter then tension or the PSI it shouldn't change the virtual power as it would always be the same reading at a particular speed?

 

 

2013-12-23 10:14 AM
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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by Scott71

Marc - one thing you mention in your post above is that you can manipulate power on your KK.  I thought virtual power was a function of speed only - i.e. if you alter then tension or the PSI it shouldn't change the virtual power as it would always be the same reading at a particular speed?

 

 




Yes you are correct. VP is 100% based on speed.

However the true power required to generate that speed will vary with tension and tire pressure.

If I loosen tension (or reduce PSI) the KK will tell me I am generating 200w, but a true powermeter will say I am generating 170w
I tighten it a bit.. KK tells me I am generating 200w, powertap says 200w
I tighten it more...KK tells me 200w, powertap says 230w

Does that make sense ? Crank the tension way way up and it will become harder and harder to hit 20MPH.

So the important thing is for it to always have the same tension so the effort required to generate a given number of watts will always be the same.

I didn't know that it had the flip mechanism, That is really cool, I think I need another trainer :-) The computrainer, KK, Quarq and Powertap are not enough.

Edited by marcag 2013-12-23 10:16 AM
2013-12-23 10:27 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Oakville
Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag If I loosen tension (or reduce PSI) the KK will tell me I am generating 200w, but a true powermeter will say I am generating 170w I tighten it a bit.. KK tells me I am generating 200w, powertap says 200w I tighten it more...KK tells me 200w, powertap says 230w Does that make sense ? 

Gotcha, that makes total sense.  Now I need to get a power meter to see what me actual power number is! 

 



2013-12-23 12:48 PM
in reply to: Scott71

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag If I loosen tension (or reduce PSI) the KK will tell me I am generating 200w, but a true powermeter will say I am generating 170w I tighten it a bit.. KK tells me I am generating 200w, powertap says 200w I tighten it more...KK tells me 200w, powertap says 230w Does that make sense ? 

Mark,

What did you use for the # of turns to get it to line up?  I remember way back when you helped out with the KK VP confirmation but can't easily find the thread to see again what tension you used.  I use 2.75 turns with 110 psi in the trainer tire, this results in spin down when the unit is warmed up of ~14 seconds.

 

2013-12-23 1:00 PM
in reply to: Donto

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by marcag If I loosen tension (or reduce PSI) the KK will tell me I am generating 200w, but a true powermeter will say I am generating 170w I tighten it a bit.. KK tells me I am generating 200w, powertap says 200w I tighten it more...KK tells me 200w, powertap says 230w Does that make sense ? 

Mark,

What did you use for the # of turns to get it to line up?  I remember way back when you helped out with the KK VP confirmation but can't easily find the thread to see again what tension you used.  I use 2.75 turns with 110 psi in the trainer tire, this results in spin down when the unit is warmed up of ~14 seconds.

 




I would have to retest, but that is going to be pretty close. I think it was 3turns at 100PSI for me, but that is going to be fine
2013-12-23 1:35 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Scott71

I've downloaded GC and was able to link my speed/cadence sensor and HRM (Marc - thanks for the Youtube video, very helpful!).

I use the Fluid2 trainer and, based on a quick test run, it appears that power is roughly 10 watts lower in GC as compared to Traineroad. 

Thanks. It felt kind of goofy doing it, but if it helps, it's worth being goofy What's really important with Virtual Power is keeping the tire tension and pressure very consistent. As Scott mentionned even if the power numbers are not 100% accurate, as long as they are consistent, that's all that matters I know that by playing with the tension I can make my Kinetic read 30w less than my PT or 30w more. So I basically never touch the tension, always pump my tire to 100PSI and deflate/reinflate the tire to get the bike on or off. What tricks do you guys use ?

I do the same thing.  I have a dedicated trainer tire, so I don't really care if I leave the tension on it all the time.  If I rode that tire outside, I might....hah.

BTW, anyone have any troubleshooting tricks for a Garmin speed sensor?  I managed to drop something while I was riding a couple weeks ago, which must have bumped the speed sensor in some way or another....and it hasn't worked since then.  The magnet is aligned with the antenna on the GSC-10 and is so close it's aaaaaaalmost touching it (in fact, it was bumping it for a while after I dropped the remote on it...).  When I push the little button on the GSC-10, it flashes red, then it flashes green, then it does nothing.  I also changed the battery this weekend and it does the same thing.  I've tried to pair it with my 910, my 800, TrainerRoad, and Golden Cheetah.  Nothing can find it, so there must be something wrong, but I don't know what it is. 

2013-12-23 2:36 PM
in reply to: ligersandtions

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by ligersandtions
BTW, anyone have any troubleshooting tricks for a Garmin speed sensor?  I managed to drop something while I was riding a couple weeks ago, which must have bumped the speed sensor in some way or another....and it hasn't worked since then.  The magnet is aligned with the antenna on the GSC-10 and is so close it's aaaaaaalmost touching it (in fact, it was bumping it for a while after I dropped the remote on it...).  When I push the little button on the GSC-10, it flashes red, then it flashes green, then it does nothing.  I also changed the battery this weekend and it does the same thing.  I've tried to pair it with my 910, my 800, TrainerRoad, and Golden Cheetah.  Nothing can find it, so there must be something wrong, but I don't know what it is. 




I found this but dob;t have a GSC10 so the blinking lights do not make sense to me

"If you put in a new battery, and pushing the button gives you a red AND a green blink, but then the speed magnet does not give you green blinks, then the speed pickup switch or its wiring inside the GSC-10 module are damaged."
2013-12-23 2:50 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Couple of questions. GC recognized my power meter (power2max) and it paired, however, it kept on saying searching for speed and cadence. Is that a problem and if so, how do I fix.

Also, the Garmin ANT+ agent was a snap to disable, is there a quick way to reinstall the Garmin ANT agent so I can download my runs easily to my computer?

Next and probably the biggest in regards to me getting everything out of this group and not take away from another person who wants in. Is this group and training period best suited for riding on the trainer? If so, then I feel it is best I excuse myself from the group. I do almost all my rides outdoors and the trainer is for a rainy day or some other last minute obstacle.

Thank You,

Tom


2013-12-23 3:02 PM
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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Originally posted by tallytom
GC recognized my power meter (power2max) and it paired, however, it kept on saying searching for speed and cadence. Is that a problem and if so, how do I fix.


Speed, you will probably have to get a speed sensor for the trainer. I guess you normally use it outdoors and get GPS based speed ? Speed is really not needed for power training with a power meter. It is required for virtual power which is not your case
Do you normally get cadence when riding outdoors ? I have a Quarq, which is crank based, and it sends me power and cadence but not speed.
When you actually do a ride on the trainer, does it sense cadence ?

Originally posted by tallytom
Also, the Garmin ANT+ agent was a snap to disable, is there a quick way to reinstall the Garmin ANT agent so I can download my runs easily to my computer?


In the Start menu there should be a Garmin Entry with "Ant Agent"

Originally posted by tallytom
Next and probably the biggest in regards to me getting everything out of this group and not take away from another person who wants in. Is this group and training period best suited for riding on the trainer?


No, you can certainly train outside. Sometimes it's little tougher to pick the perfect roads to do intervals. For example, is Shane says 4x6'@105% with 3' rest you need a 6' stretch of road without stops. Sometimes a good long hill is really good for these.

Edited by marcag 2013-12-23 3:05 PM
2013-12-23 5:28 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Thanks Marc for quick reply and help. I'll get back to about cadence on the trainer. I do get it when ride outdoors. Good to hear about the roads. I have some good areas to ride. I'm looking forward to this, but I will say that the Golden Cheetah program can be quite intimidating from a computer and technology standpoint. I'm looking forward to getting to know about it. But first got a marathon to run this Sunday and a cold and cough to beat at the same time.

Tom
2013-12-23 6:02 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.
Marc, you may have answered this question here or elsewhere but figured you'd be the guy to ask. Is there any sort of pull feature to get everything from Strava or Garmin Connect into Golden Cheetah or is the best method just manual file uploads in bulk once you've downloaded from Garmin Connect?

I had just been uploading to Golden Cheetah sporadically awhile back but haven't used it in a few months. I'm wondering if I'm better off just starting over.
2013-12-23 6:36 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Power Mentor Group with Shane & Marc - Closed.

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ligersandtions BTW, anyone have any troubleshooting tricks for a Garmin speed sensor?  I managed to drop something while I was riding a couple weeks ago, which must have bumped the speed sensor in some way or another....and it hasn't worked since then.  The magnet is aligned with the antenna on the GSC-10 and is so close it's aaaaaaalmost touching it (in fact, it was bumping it for a while after I dropped the remote on it...).  When I push the little button on the GSC-10, it flashes red, then it flashes green, then it does nothing.  I also changed the battery this weekend and it does the same thing.  I've tried to pair it with my 910, my 800, TrainerRoad, and Golden Cheetah.  Nothing can find it, so there must be something wrong, but I don't know what it is. 
I found this but dob;t have a GSC10 so the blinking lights do not make sense to me "If you put in a new battery, and pushing the button gives you a red AND a green blink, but then the speed magnet does not give you green blinks, then the speed pickup switch or its wiring inside the GSC-10 module are damaged."

Hmmmm, who would have though dropping a tiny remote for my fan would screw so many things up?  The remote seems fine....wish that were broken instead of my speed sensor (and making my PM seem slightly off!).  I guess it's not a very important metric, given that the computer uses GPS for speed when outside, and speed on the trainer really doesn't mean anything now that I'm not using Virtual Power. 

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