General Discussion Triathlon Talk » police officer shoves cyclist in New York Rss Feed  
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 2
 
 
2008-07-29 12:33 PM

Member
20

Subject: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
Saw this posted on aol. thought it was an interesting story and wondered what the reaction of the bike/tri/sports world would be to a police officer, someone who is sworn to protect and serve, who does this. Take a look and tell us what you think.

http://news.aol.com/article/youtube-clip-shows-cop-shoving-cyclist/...


2008-07-29 12:38 PM
in reply to: #1567367

Extreme Veteran
325
10010010025
Austin, TX
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
The history between cyclists and NYPD is long and not all that good. The Critical Mass rallies in NYC are insane. Both the cyclists and NYPD do their best to p*ss the other off. This has happened before but never caught on tape.

Edited by USS Dunphy 2008-07-29 12:39 PM
2008-07-29 12:40 PM
in reply to: #1567367

User image

Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
It's already posted in CoJ, but what do I think?  I think the cop's an a hole and he will be fired, he lied about the incident in his report.
2008-07-29 12:56 PM
in reply to: #1567367

User image

Regular
118
100
The Land of Misfit Toys
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York

That cop sure looks like he draws a bead on that specific cyclist. There's not much video of the specific incident to watch, but he looks like he lines up that cyclist in particular. I wonder if the cyclist gestured or yelled anything. Either way, taking a guy out like that entirely in what appeared to be at least a semi organized event (people on the streets watching) isn't justified. If there was a reason for detaining him, there are other reasonable means of doing so.

From the looks of it, he was already fired. I may be reading that wrong. I just wonder if there was much of an investigation performed or if it was a knee-jerk firing? Anyone know any more specifics?

2008-07-29 1:07 PM
in reply to: #1567367

User image

Coach
10487
50005000100100100100252525
Boston, MA
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York

of course the cop is an a$$hole and there is no excuse for what happened on the video and the cop should be punished; that been said I do NOT support critical mass rides and their IMO stupid tactics to supposedly 'bring awareness' for those of use who rides our bikes on the street.

The only 1st experience about this kind of rides was here in Boston, I was running around the Charles river and a mass ride was going on Memorial drive, the were not only completely blocking the entire two lanes to traffic riding and stopping every few hundred 100yds, they were also VERY aggressive and screaming nasty words to ANY vehicle on the road. Since then I feel ashamed to be considered a cyclist in the same category as these morons and I can’t blame some motorists to dislike them.

2008-07-29 1:17 PM
in reply to: #1567367

User image

Extreme Veteran
739
50010010025
Westlake, OH
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York

dirtbag hiding behind a badge.  Sadly there are many of them.  And sadly they some what tarnish the good ones. 

It there wasn't a video he would have gotten away with it.  Makes me want to carry a video camera on me at all times. 



2008-07-29 1:19 PM
in reply to: #1567516

User image

Regular
118
100
The Land of Misfit Toys
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
ohiost90 - 2008-07-29 1:17 PM

dirtbag hiding behind a badge.  Sadly there are many of them.  And sadly they some what tarnish the good ones. 

That's true of pretty much every profession though, isn't it? I guess the sense of empowerment got to his head a bit.

2008-07-29 1:31 PM
in reply to: #1567367

User image

Champion
4902
20002000500100100100100
Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
Wow, that cop is an a**hole!  Long was charged with attempted assault for deliberately steering his bicycle into the officer, causing both of them to fall to the ground, as well as resisting arrest and disorderly conduct.  The video certainly disproves the officers charges!!!! 
I hope that the police department does more than just transfer this bad cop to desk duty.  He should be fired outright for falsifying an official police report, for assault, for abuse of public trust and just simply for being a big fat bully in uniform.  And, of course, the cyclist should sue for assault and harassement.
2008-07-29 1:37 PM
in reply to: #1567367

User image

Veteran
385
100100100252525
Chaska, MN
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York

Not to sound anti cycle or pro cop...but it looks like before the officer jacks the guy FAR harder than needed both officers are moving toward him.  What's not shown is what he was doing off camera before he enters the frame.  Plus read what he said...You're pawns in my game....Does this mean he baited them?

Now the reaction was no doubt far too severe but perhaps the guy had it coming?  Maybe these officers were continually harassed verbally over and over and over and this guy did something that was actually illegal and the officer just lost it.

People here often rant (For three paragraphs or more) if ONE driver says or does something offensive...Imagine HUNDREDS of cars lining up yelling at you or almost running into you....

I'm not defending the action...I'm just saying LOOK at the WHOLE picture and put yourself there.

Police are PEOPLE too and are subject to bad days....

We all sure like them on the race course stoping traffic for us...

NO I'm not an officer...but I have lots of friends that are.....



Edited by Rheya's Assassin 2008-07-29 1:39 PM
2008-07-29 1:54 PM
in reply to: #1567367

User image

Champion
4902
20002000500100100100100
Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York

"Now the reaction was no doubt far too severe but perhaps the guy had it coming?"

NO! He definitely did not have that "coming"!  Perhaps the cyclist did make a rude gesture or say something untoward to the officer.  However the officer did not communicate any intent nor did he use reasonable force in the alleged "arrest".  First of all, he should have motioned the cyclist to come to a stop.  Then he should have informed the cyclist that he was under arrest and for what reason.  BUT, the officer calmly walked across the street and  knocked the cyclist down rather brutally!  That is not an arrest, that is criminal assault!!!  



Edited by Machiavelo 2008-07-29 1:55 PM
2008-07-29 1:59 PM
in reply to: #1567638

User image

Regular
118
100
The Land of Misfit Toys
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
Machiavelo - 2008-07-29 1:54 PM

"Now the reaction was no doubt far too severe but perhaps the guy had it coming?"

NO! He definitely did not have that "coming"!  Perhaps he did make a rude gesture or say something untoward to the officer but the officer did not communicate any intent nor did he use reasonable force in the alleged "arrest".  First of all, he should have motioned the cyclist to come to a stop.  Then he should have informed th cyclist that he was under arrest and why.  BUT, the officer calmly walked across the street and  knocked the cyclist down rather brutally!  That is not an arrest, that is a criminal assault!!!  

I think that that's precisely what was intended with the italicized quote. The reaction was indeed far too severe, as admitted by the poster, but I think that the poster was merely trying to say that maybe he was provoking the officer to stop him in some way. I think that everyone agrees that the reaction was way beyond acceptable and that some type of disciplinary action is necessary. I have a hard time believing you could get any reasonable person, regardless of their feelings towards cyclists, to watch that video and honestly believe that someone deserves to get decleated like that. Notice that the qualifier is that the person must be reasonable.

It was a good hit though.



2008-07-29 2:11 PM
in reply to: #1567582

User image

Veteran
228
10010025
Brooklyn, NY
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York

I worked with the young officer's father. I never met the son but if he is anything like his father this is way out of the norm.

Rheya brings up some good points. Police officers are human beings and subject to the same frustrations as the rest of us. I don't know if he was justified in knocking that cyclist down or not. I do know that I won't pass judgement on a person or on what happened based on a short video clip.

Having said that, what we see on the video looks bad, really bad. And if that is all there is it is unexcusable.

Critical mass in NYC was a good idea that has become twisted. It's no longer about alternative means of transportation. It's all about blocking traffic and trying to get arrested. It's not the first time that a cop takes down a Critical mass rider in NYC. It's not even the first time it happens on video.

Below is the editorial from today's paper.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Give us a brake!

Oh, how gleeful Critical Mass must be. On Friday evening, during its monthly annoyance of fellow New Yorkers, its members managed to run into (figuratively speaking) one unfortunately irked police officer.

There they were, the cycling horde, shrilling and squealing their sense-of-entitlement way through Times Square. Preventing pedestrians from safely crossing the street. And otherwise being their obnoxious selves. When what should happen?

A cop, apparently too dense to suspect there would be a video camera in Times Square - especially during a Critical Mass ride - strides over to a passing cyclist and puts a linebacker-quality hit on him. Sending cyclist and cycle crashing to the pavement.

The video is all over the Internet now, complete with slow-mo replay, to be exploited as supposed proof that the Finest really and truly are the stooges of a power structure that is determined to oppress . . . people who think riding bicycles is the answer to all of society's ills.

Take that, ExxonMobil.

Take that, Dick Cheney.

Take that, Antonin Scalia.

What we have here is confirmation of how juvenile, self-important and self-absorbed one group of people can get. Along with certification that they succeeded in getting under one cop's skin. Along with appropriate action by NYPD brass.

The officer in question has been relieved of his gun and shield and put on modified assignment because his brusqueness appears to have been unjustified. An Internal Affairs investigation will make the call.

Meanwhile, some history is in order. Prior to the 2004 Republican convention at Madison Square Garden, groups of cyclists promoting alternative transportation oft took to the streets en masse of an evening.

But the GOP's arrival lured the Critical Mass activists, who saw the rides as a perfect way of disrupting the city, by running red lights, blocking side streets ("corking," they call it) and venturing onto major highways.

They created such a mess that the NYPD enacted new regulations, which were upheld by a federal judge. The rules require organizations like Critical Mass to get a permit whenever they expect to pedal with 50 or more riders.

Needless to say, Critical Mass had no such permit for Friday night's ride. The NYPD nonetheless let the event proceed because the cyclists have been generally well-behaved of late. So much for the victimization that Critical Mass can now celebrate. Such a pity.

2008-07-29 2:54 PM
in reply to: #1567367

Master
1468
10001001001001002525
Montgomery, Tx
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York

I hate cheap shots no matter what the cause. 

 

2008-07-29 4:00 PM
in reply to: #1567367

User image

Veteran
385
100100100252525
Chaska, MN
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York

Let me state again...I DO NOT condone the EXCESSIVE hit.  But it did make me say OW MAN....

I think with all the media coverage of police misuse of authority that it is easy to forget that there is a small element of society that does not operate in the boundries that most of us operate in.  SOME people (including our beloved cycling community) are NOT nice people.

If this guy were riding in a race and the cop just creamed him then that's different.  PERHAPS he was hurling vicious verbal assualts and MAY BE off camera he swerved to strike another officer.

The problem here is that we are all to quick to assume that the guy on the bike is "one of us" normal folks and was just out enjoying a nice ride with some friends and this cop just hates bikers.

With all that said I don't think the action was the correct one.  But in this society we have lost ALL RESPECT for authority.  Personally if you are hurling verbal and possible physical abuse toward any authoritive figure you should be repremanded.  This stems into all facets of society, police, school officals and parents.

I AM NOT SAYING tackle kids and everyone that mouths off but we all have to admit that the level of respect for authority has gone down far too low.

Ahh...this has gotten way more drawn out than intended lol....

Anyway we all agree it was not the correct course...I just wanted to point out let's not be so quick to hang the officer high based on a 1:30 of video. 



Edited by Rheya's Assassin 2008-07-29 4:04 PM
2008-07-29 4:33 PM
in reply to: #1567582

User image

Master
1748
100050010010025
Port Moody, BC
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
Rheya's Assassin - 2008-07-29 11:37 AM

People here often rant (For three paragraphs or more) if ONE driver says or does something offensive...Imagine HUNDREDS of cars lining up yelling at you or almost running into you....

HEY! MY RANTS ARE NEVER LONGER THAN 2 PARAGRAPHS LONG!!! I resent you generalizing my babbling along with long winded ranters!



Edited by hazmaster 2008-07-29 4:33 PM
2008-07-29 6:26 PM
in reply to: #1567367

User image

Veteran
385
100100100252525
Chaska, MN
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York

I can't please everyone lol...

BTW thanks for the shorter rant!!!  Even though I must admit, I enjoy reading the long rants...lmao



2008-07-29 6:42 PM
in reply to: #1567389

User image

Extreme Veteran
790
500100100252525
Rocklin
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
ChrisM - 2008-07-29 10:40 AM

It's already posted in CoJ, but what do I think?  I think the cop's an a hole and he will be fired, he lied about the incident in his report.


Oh that guy is going to get paid!!! New York, capital of personal injury lawyers, and undisputable video evidence = $$$$. That cop targeted the guy. it's like shooting a driver for speeding.

The cop's job is like Kyzer Sozay..."poof...he's gone."
2008-07-29 7:01 PM
in reply to: #1567367


2

Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
was this cop wrong? probably, yes. was the critical mass rider wrong? yes. was the critical mass rider violating nyc laws? yes. my question is how do you stop a bicyclist going 10-15 mph in the street? does anyone really think if the cop said "Stop !" the rider would have just stopped. I have to say knowing critical mass that the answer is no. he would have ridden right on by laughing at the "Pawn" as he so eloquently put it. The officer is young (22), new, and obviously not thinking, therefore he should be fired, his name ruined and probably his life ruined?? Is that what all of you are advocating? Or should he be disciplined severely, taught a lesson and perhaps turn out better. Remember the old saying about "Glass houses" people.
2008-07-29 7:20 PM
in reply to: #1567367

Expert
810
500100100100
Southeast
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York

As many pointed out, most if not all of us are ignorant about relevant facts that are not on the video.  Even whether excessive force was used is not clear from the video alone.

On the other hand, the cop definitely screwed up.  The complaint says that the cyclist "deliberately steered his bicycle into the officer, causing both of them to fall to the ground."  This is manifestly false from the video.

The fact that the complaint apparently does not mention cause for stopping the cyclist also suggests that the level of force used to stop him was probably not warranted.

Are the cyclists in question jerks too?  I don't know any them (as far as I'm aware), but it sure sounds like they are.  And the cyclist in question seems to have a penchant for juvenile rhetoric that gets tiring very quickly.  This is not an excuse for a cop to wallop one of them.  Cops have to protect people who are much worse (KKK marchers, etc.). 

I think it is extremely unlikely that the cop will lose his job -- cops have done far worse without losing their jobs.  I just hope that the experience teaches him to distinguish his job (protecting the public) from his feelings about those he is protecting, rather than embittering him.  We should all bear in mind that this is a very difficult distinction to keep straight in the heat of the moment.

2008-07-29 7:45 PM
in reply to: #1568564

Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
Cops have a Cop union right?  Yup he is keeping his job
2008-07-29 8:11 PM
in reply to: #1567519

User image

Extreme Veteran
739
50010010025
Westlake, OH
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
Agur - 2008-07-29 2:19 PM
ohiost90 - 2008-07-29 1:17 PM

dirtbag hiding behind a badge.  Sadly there are many of them.  And sadly they some what tarnish the good ones. 

That's true of pretty much every profession though, isn't it? I guess the sense of empowerment got to his head a bit.

yeah, there are dirtbags in every profession.  However name another profession that is allowed to carry guns and arrest people.  I use to think anyone arrested did something.  Tell me, was this guy resisting arrest?  or the other trumped up charges they tried to hang on him?

And for the posters above giving the "we don't know the whole story"  and "CM riders are blah, blah blah" above, get real.    The video has sound, anyone hear the cop say stop?  did anyone see a hand signal from a cop?  15-20mph?  please, they weren't doing 10.  If by blind siding the guy  was the only way the cop could stop him, then he isn't(wasn't) much of a cop.

I'm not basis this all on the video either.  The trumped up charges and the lies on the statement speaks volumes.  "ran into me"  "both fell to the ground"  please..



Edited by ohiost90 2008-07-29 8:11 PM


2008-07-29 8:26 PM
in reply to: #1567367

Member
20

Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
I didn't know anything about critical mass when I read this article or started the thread. I was just interested in what others thought. I am sure there is more to both sides of the story than we are hearing, seeing, or reading.
At any rate, that kind of aggression is uncalled for from anyperson unless your life is in harms way.
2008-07-29 9:21 PM
in reply to: #1567367

User image

Veteran
306
100100100
Dallas
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York

I am in Law Enforcement myself. . . .

. . . . . .and I know there is an element of "Bad", "Out of Control", "Over the Top" Cops out there (or whatever descriptive you might want to use), but as previously written, we only see just a brief moment of the video. 

The first thing I see are a bunch of Dirtbag Protestors, breaking NUMEROUS traffic laws, as well as dangerously cycling down the street without regard to pedestrians.  I think we want to attach soft fuzzy feelings toward the cyclist as if he and his friends are serious, law abiding cyclists like most of us on BT.

Sure I see both sides; the dirtbag protestors, and the one cop that makes it hard for me to do my job, because so many people attach what he did to the cyclist, to how I conduct myself on the job. 

We can see the cyclists willfully breaking the law in front of the Police, but in the short video we don't see whether or not the cop had reason to do what he did.  If there was no other reason than to take out his frustrations on a cyclist, then yes he deserves severe discipline. 

But PLEASE! ! !   I've seen to many SHORT video clips that don't tell the whole story.  So, don't pass judgement too quickly.

OK. . .  I'm Done. . . .

2008-07-29 9:38 PM
in reply to: #1568725

User image

Extreme Veteran
739
50010010025
Westlake, OH
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York
shamgar7 - 2008-07-29 10:21 PM

I am in Law Enforcement myself. . . .

. . . . . .and I know there is an element of "Bad", "Out of Control", "Over the Top" Cops out there (or whatever descriptive you might want to use), but as previously written, we only see just a brief moment of the video. 

The first thing I see are a bunch of Dirtbag Protestors, breaking NUMEROUS traffic laws, as well as dangerously cycling down the street without regard to pedestrians.  I think we want to attach soft fuzzy feelings toward the cyclist as if he and his friends are serious, law abiding cyclists like most of us on BT.

Sure I see both sides; the dirtbag protestors, and the one cop that makes it hard for me to do my job, because so many people attach what he did to the cyclist, to how I conduct myself on the job. 

We can see the cyclists willfully breaking the law in front of the Police, but in the short video we don't see whether or not the cop had reason to do what he did.  If there was no other reason than to take out his frustrations on a cyclist, then yes he deserves severe discipline. 

But PLEASE! ! !   I've seen to many SHORT video clips that don't tell the whole story.  So, don't pass judgement too quickly.

OK. . .  I'm Done. . . .

curious, in your opinion, what would justify that type of attack?  Shouldn't the cop had told him to stop?  use some type of hand signal to motion the biker to stop?  None of these is seen or heard on the video, which was long enough and the audio good enough to tell that none was present.  None of these were present, just a blind side cross check into the curb.  So again, I ask, what is the justification for police brutality? 

2008-07-29 10:52 PM
in reply to: #1568754

User image

Veteran
306
100100100
Dallas
Subject: RE: police officer shoves cyclist in New York

curious, in your opinion, what would justify that type of attack?  Shouldn't the cop had told him to stop?  use some type of hand signal to motion the biker to stop?  None of these is seen or heard on the video, which was long enough and the audio good enough to tell that none was present.  None of these were present, just a blind side cross check into the curb.  So again, I ask, what is the justification for police brutality? 

I'll answer your first question:  (Look at the video again) When you look at the video, you can see the cop looking down the street at a particular object.  Before the rider enters the picture you can see the cop still looking at the same object, and then start moving directly toward that object.  The cyclist then enters the picture, and it becomes apparent that the cop was looking (it appears) at this cyclist.  WHAT WE DON'T SEE, is what that cyclist was doing (prior to entering into view), that got the cops attention.  Now I could speculate on NUMEROUS things that that guy could have done to make the cop need to take IMMEDIATE, PHYSICAL action to stop this cyclist.  In fact I could speculate all day long on what the cyclist did to elicit this response by the cop.  But all that would be is speculation.  If you want I could give some examples.  But I digress. . . .

As far as the audio; that camera, I believe, was only picking up sound in the immediate vicinity, and was not picking up sound that far away.

Now as far as Police Brutality. . . .   Again! ! !   I am not taking the cops side, or the cyclists side by watching a 30 second video.  If the cyclist just got through punching an old man in the face as he rode by, and the cop didn't think the guy was going to stop if he held up his hand and said HALT! ! !  Then yes, I believe he did what he had to do, because I have been in situations that I had to react quickly to people who have just committed violent acts, and I needed to stop them NOW.  Now HEAR me GOOD! ! !   If the cop just got tired of these whooping and hollering protestors riding by, and he just wanted to beat on somebody to take out his aggression. . . . Then YES, that would be police Brutality! ! !  BUT, I am saying we don't see the whole story on the video.

So, I understand what Non-Law Enforcement folks see, when they watch videos like this.  And in most cases these Non-Law Enforcement folks jump to a conclusion by the site of the video, and by the commentary by the news folks. . .   I'm just saying that when you watch a 2 dimentional video at your computer or TV, you don't always get the whole story. 

And as far as your last statement. . . . There is NO justification for Police Brutality! ! !   But again, we don't have enough here to make that judgement.

New Thread
General Discussion Triathlon Talk » police officer shoves cyclist in New York Rss Feed  
 
 
of 2