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2008-08-21 6:51 PM
in reply to: #1619856

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Subject: RE: swim calories ?????/

Anyway, I have beat this horse to death, and please don't take any of this personal.

1st, I don't take it personal at all and I hope you don't as well.  And agreed, the horse is dead but that isn't going to stop me.

1st  "I wouldn't know if it takes 2x the amount of energy to fire 2x the amount muscles involved in running. "  Well it seems pretty logical that it would take exactly 2x the amount of energy.

In zero gravity, the only work is to contract and extend the muscle, since weight has no bearing it may be the same amount of work regardless of size.  I don't know but that doesn't negate my point.   

2nd "Since the weight of the person has no effect on work, that would be the only consideration."  What do you mean?  Of course the weight of the person has to do with the amount of work it takes for a person to run in zero gravity.  The work performed is to accelerate and decellerate your arms and legs in a running motion.  If your arms and legs are heavier it will take more energy to accellerate and decelerate them.

One's arms and legs(or anything for that matter) don't weigh anything in zero gravity.  That is the point.  No gravity, no weight.  Certainly you've seen video of people in space before correct?  The work to move the arms and legs aren't effect at all the the weight of the arms and legs or body.  Only moving the muscle itself.  And since the muscle itself has no weight it very well be the same to move a large muscle as a small one.

3rd "That being said, the vast amount of work involved in running(on the earth) is to over come gravity where weight does have a great effect."  What does this have to do with your argument?

The heavier something is, the "harder" or more work one has to perform to move it.  And in humans, the body burns calories to perform work.  So it would follow that one would burn more calories if one has to lift more weight.  That is what you are saying and I would totally agree with.  However, as in the example of zero gravity, there is no weight to lift and hence the persons weight has no bearing on the amount of work that is being performed. 

This example can be translated to non-weight bearing activities such as swimming and limited weight bearing activites such as biking(on level ground). 

A large part of the "work" and hence the amount of calories burned is used to support the weight of the person and to over come the effects of gravity.  In the calculator you provided it shows that a person weighing 2x as much will burn 2x the amount of calories running of the lighter person.  That very well might be the case but it can not be true for ALL activites and certainly not true for non-weight bearing and limited weight bearing activities since the work of supporting the person and/or overcoming the effects of gravity are no longer there or greatly reduced. 



Edited by ohiost90 2008-08-21 6:53 PM


2008-08-22 10:18 AM
in reply to: #1615681

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Subject: RE: swim calories ?????/

"2nd "Since the weight of the person has no effect on work, that would be the only consideration."  What do you mean?  Of course the weight of the person has to do with the amount of work it takes for a person to run in zero gravity.  The work performed is to accelerate and decellerate your arms and legs in a running motion.  If your arms and legs are heavier have more mass it will take more energy to accellerate and decelerate them."

Just wanted to correct an error in my terminology.

 

2008-08-22 11:56 AM
in reply to: #1615681

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Subject: RE: swim calories ?????/
If my arms are bigger, it will take more energy to lift and move them through the recovery. If my body is bigger, it will have more resistance and consequently take more calories to move it through the water. If my legs are bigger, it takes more calories to kick with them. If my hands and arms are bigger, they're going to push more water and consequently take more calories to move them.

If you have a small boat and a big boat, assuming they are the same general shape, you need a larger engine or somehow greater power to push the big boat at the same speed.

What am I missing?

Also, in a non-weight bearing activity, neither the bigger athlete nor the smaller athlete has the effects of gravity, but they still have the requirements of moving their bigger or smaller mass bodies. I think I'm coming to the conclusion that I think it actually is a linear equation, which was in contrast to what my gut reaction was initially....

Edited by MLJ 2008-08-22 12:00 PM
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