Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days (Page 2)
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2009-08-17 12:01 PM in reply to: #2353149 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days breckview - 2009-08-17 12:07 PM IMO, many triathletes tend to ramp up way too fast and then rest too often, which I think is the opposite of the way it should be if one wants to improve. Hear! Hear! |
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2009-08-17 12:41 PM in reply to: #2353254 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days Rencor - 2009-08-17 11:38 AM If I remember correctly you used to say you had terrible eating habits. Could that be the issue? I'm no expert but I know poor eating wears me down as much as my training. Now that I know it I just have to do something about it My eating habits are not perfect, but are not out and out horrible. I could do better and I could do worse. |
2009-08-17 12:48 PM in reply to: #2352885 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days I've got a little different opinion than most of the posts here I guess. I think that training when tired and sometimes even sore (good sore not injury sore) is just fine and often necessary to achieve your goals. I look at training as stress and recovery. You get get all technical but that's the basic premise. In order to get better you need to stress something and the recover from it so that your body heals and becomes stronger. Some events or people's goals will require a workload that forces you to train multiple workouts tired or fatiqued. If your goal is a 9 hour Ironman then the stress you put on your body needs to prepare you for a 9+ hour effort. That means lots of workouts. Saying that you are tired for the next workout and therefore need to rest is often too narrow of a focus. You're looking at the trees and not the forest. If you skip that workout b/c you're tired then why not cut a workout short b/c you get tired during a workout? Where is the line drawn? If tired= needs to rest, then you will never be able to stress your body enough for it to be strong enough to cope with the goals you want to achieve. Just listen to the Hawaii Champions, they are exhausted for weeks on end in their preparation for Kona. But then they rest (taper) and win the race. They look at rest/fatigue on a very large scale, not just workout to workout. Having said all of that, I will say that this can be overdone if you don't monitor it right. Also, most of those big names we read about with huge training volumes also take complete days off. The "I don't take rest days" group usually lies within the age group crowd where training load is not all that stressfull, so a full rest day isn't really needed. My 2 cents |
2009-08-17 12:52 PM in reply to: #2353481 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days tjfry - 2009-08-17 12:48 PM I've got a little different opinion than most of the posts here I guess. I think that training when tired and sometimes even sore (good sore not injury sore) is just fine and often necessary to achieve your goals. I look at training as stress and recovery. You get get all technical but that's the basic premise. In order to get better you need to stress something and the recover from it so that your body heals and becomes stronger. Some events or people's goals will require a workload that forces you to train multiple workouts tired or fatiqued. If your goal is a 9 hour Ironman then the stress you put on your body needs to prepare you for a 9+ hour effort. That means lots of workouts. Saying that you are tired for the next workout and therefore need to rest is often too narrow of a focus. You're looking at the trees and not the forest. If you skip that workout b/c you're tired then why not cut a workout short b/c you get tired during a workout? Where is the line drawn? If tired= needs to rest, then you will never be able to stress your body enough for it to be strong enough to cope with the goals you want to achieve. Just listen to the Hawaii Champions, they are exhausted for weeks on end in their preparation for Kona. But then they rest (taper) and win the race. They look at rest/fatigue on a very large scale, not just workout to workout. Having said all of that, I will say that this can be overdone if you don't monitor it right. Also, most of those big names we read about with huge training volumes also take complete days off. The "I don't take rest days" group usually lies within the age group crowd where training load is not all that stressfull, so a full rest day isn't really needed. My 2 cents How you explained it above it kind of how I see it. You put more and more stress on your body so it can handle more. Shoot for the last 2 months of IM training I was basically in a training daze. I was tired but still training. HIM training has NOT been as bad. Not by a long shot. |
2009-08-17 3:52 PM in reply to: #2353496 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days if you look at all the responses you have got so far, one thing remains pretty much the same, and that is to listen to your body and make sure you are not crossing the line between being tired, and getting hurt. you do need to add stress, and then have your body regrow stronger. the diff between most good, and great coaches and/or athletes is not always the ability to push themselves, but the ability to find that line and walk on it for weeks at a time, where they are at the point where anymore will break them, but never quite walking over it. i have had a solid 5 week build with a lot of quality workouts, harder stuff, etc, today i went out to do a run, no set length, was thinking anywhere between 5 and 8 miles. i felt like crap the first half mile, so i went through a shorter loop to see how i felt. made it 2.5 miles and bagged it and headed to the pool. it was 96 out, no wind, humid, and i am tired. its time for an easy week and then race:-) |
2009-08-17 4:00 PM in reply to: #2352885 |
Expert 1170 Southern Pines, NC | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days Some of my best results at events have been when I use a training plan that almost feels too easy day to day. From my own experience it's best to have one complete rest day, then alternate hard and easy workouts. If I don't, I find myself dragging and tired, and I end up needing to take 3-4 days off to recover. Just my experience, and I'm certainly not an elite athlete by any stretch of the imagination. |
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2009-08-17 4:25 PM in reply to: #2352885 |
Expert 1123 Falls Church, VA | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days KSH - 2009-08-17 10:52 AM All right, I have had a few people ask me WHY as triathletes that we train all the time, vs. not having rest days and I say "just because". Or I give some explaination that we do it to make our bodies use to training sore, tired, etc. Yes, it's a lame answer. So, someone who is more elite and more of a pro at this stuff... a coach... etc... please explain it to me. Why if we are sore and tired, do we keep training day after day. Now, I'm not talking about training through fatigue... but just a general feeling of being sore and tired. For example, my cycling averages have been going down... but I'm not supposed to take a break. Instead, I'm to train through it. Keep going. Even if I'm sucking, I keep training. My quads are sore. I know I'll still run and swim tonight. Sore muscles are not. At what point does training through soreness not product results. Why do we keep training if our performance is not improving, but rather decreasing? Would it kill me to take two days off to rest? To recharge? To stop being sore? Or do I benefit more from training through the soreness? Let's discuss. Because I'm really curious. Who has told you to not rest? They're wrong. |
2009-08-17 4:31 PM in reply to: #2352904 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days Daremo - 2009-08-17 7:59 AM KSH - 2009-08-17 10:52 AM Would it kill me to take two days off to rest? To recharge? To stop being sore? Or do I benefit more from training through the soreness? Let's discuss. Because I'm really curious. No, take the rest days. You will be better served in my opinion. You have to know when to say when and listen to your body. If you start a workout tired and it doesn't get better within the first 15 minutes or so, bag it and rest. If you start it tired, and things click into place as the workout goes on? That is a well designed plan and you are recovering well overall. Too many athletes do not listen to their body and continue to push. This is why so many of the elite runners are only at the pinnacle of their sport for 2 or 3 years. They simply do too much and don't rest. The idea should be "Do the least amount to get the most out" when it comes to training. For some this will be 10 - 12 hours. For others this may be 15+. agreed 100% |
2009-08-17 5:44 PM in reply to: #2354163 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days Bioteknik - 2009-08-17 4:25 PM KSH - 2009-08-17 10:52 AM All right, I have had a few people ask me WHY as triathletes that we train all the time, vs. not having rest days and I say "just because". Or I give some explaination that we do it to make our bodies use to training sore, tired, etc. Yes, it's a lame answer. So, someone who is more elite and more of a pro at this stuff... a coach... etc... please explain it to me. Why if we are sore and tired, do we keep training day after day. Now, I'm not talking about training through fatigue... but just a general feeling of being sore and tired. For example, my cycling averages have been going down... but I'm not supposed to take a break. Instead, I'm to train through it. Keep going. Even if I'm sucking, I keep training. My quads are sore. I know I'll still run and swim tonight. Sore muscles are not. At what point does training through soreness not product results. Why do we keep training if our performance is not improving, but rather decreasing? Would it kill me to take two days off to rest? To recharge? To stop being sore? Or do I benefit more from training through the soreness? Let's discuss. Because I'm really curious. Who has told you to not rest? They're wrong. Well, that was how I trained for two years with two different coaches. Sometimes I only got rest days because I took them, not because they were in my training plan. They didn't say NOT to rest... but when I get a training plan with every day booked... there ya go. This year I'm working from a training plan out of a book. I have modified to fit my lifestyle. We will see how my HIM goes and if that approach is a good one. |
2009-08-17 6:07 PM in reply to: #2352885 |
Cycling Guru 15134 Fulton, MD | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days A coach that is looking out for you should not just send you your workouts and say "Talk to you next month, have a nice time." They should be evaluating what your workouts look like AFTERWARD and making adjustments to the next ones, even if you aren't always aware that they are doing it. Anyone can prescribe workouts and get you to do them. What separates those people from the good coaches is that the good ones adapt your training to what you are actually doing, how you feel and where things seem to need improvement. It is a very hard thing to do. But you are paying for a service to make you better while keeping you healthy and motivated. It would be my opinion that someone who gives you a ton of workouts without building in some pure rest days (for a newer amateur athlete ..... not necessarily a very experienced one who is used to 15 - 20 hour weeks) may not be serving you in the best way possible. You may not need one every week, but 10 - 14 days may be the sweet spot. And sometimes people just need to take care of the other things in their life which are a hell of a lot more important than exercise ......... Just my thoughts. Edited by Daremo 2009-08-17 6:07 PM |
2009-08-17 6:16 PM in reply to: #2352885 |
Expert 838 West Palm Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days I've been dealing with this lately too. I was totally wiped after a big build week at the end of July. I think I'm learning that dedicated rest days are really important so what I'm trying to do is cram more training in the day so I can still have a day or two off and still hit my volume and intensity goals. Scheduling a longer ride, swim or run (provided your fit enough for it) or doing two disciplines in a day can help you get your training goals accomplished and leave you the time to do nothing for a day or two in the week. If my plan calls for 10 hours in a week I'm trying to do 1.5-3 hours 5x/week rather than 1-1.5 hours 7x/week. |
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2009-08-17 6:23 PM in reply to: #2354328 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days True. And my coach last year did have me rest at times, when I seemed too worn down. Otherwise, it was train-train-train. That's great feedback though for people who currently have coaches and who might be asking what I'm asking. For me it's a mute point since I'm coach-free this year. Daremo - 2009-08-17 6:07 PM A coach that is looking out for you should not just send you your workouts and say "Talk to you next month, have a nice time." They should be evaluating what your workouts look like AFTERWARD and making adjustments to the next ones, even if you aren't always aware that they are doing it. Anyone can prescribe workouts and get you to do them. What separates those people from the good coaches is that the good ones adapt your training to what you are actually doing, how you feel and where things seem to need improvement. It is a very hard thing to do. But you are paying for a service to make you better while keeping you healthy and motivated. It would be my opinion that someone who gives you a ton of workouts without building in some pure rest days (for a newer amateur athlete ..... not necessarily a very experienced one who is used to 15 - 20 hour weeks) may not be serving you in the best way possible. You may not need one every week, but 10 - 14 days may be the sweet spot. And sometimes people just need to take care of the other things in their life which are a hell of a lot more important than exercise ......... Just my thoughts. |
2009-08-17 7:05 PM in reply to: #2352885 |
Extreme Veteran 313 | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days Sure you can keep training. Train until your immune system becomes so low you catch every cold known to man, are so sick that you are bed ridden for a couple of weeks. Take rest days or at least very easy days. Would you force your car to keep driving on no fuel? No, you would go to the petrol station and revive it, just as you should with rest days and sleep. |
2009-08-17 7:16 PM in reply to: #2352885 |
Master 1591 San Diego, CA | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days I'm no expert but my coaches have me monitor my resting HR, fatigue, soreness, sleep quality and base my need for extra time off on general trends. |
2009-08-17 7:50 PM in reply to: #2354429 |
Champion 7233 | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days think about this, all the best training in the world cant help you if you are broken or too tired to race. |
2009-08-17 8:04 PM in reply to: #2354296 |
Expert 828 | Subject: RE: Explain it to me- Training tired and sore- no rest days KSH - 2009-08-17 6:44 PM Bioteknik - 2009-08-17 4:25 PM KSH - 2009-08-17 10:52 AM All right, I have had a few people ask me WHY as triathletes that we train all the time, vs. not having rest days and I say "just because". Or I give some explaination that we do it to make our bodies use to training sore, tired, etc. Yes, it's a lame answer. So, someone who is more elite and more of a pro at this stuff... a coach... etc... please explain it to me. Why if we are sore and tired, do we keep training day after day. Now, I'm not talking about training through fatigue... but just a general feeling of being sore and tired. For example, my cycling averages have been going down... but I'm not supposed to take a break. Instead, I'm to train through it. Keep going. Even if I'm sucking, I keep training. My quads are sore. I know I'll still run and swim tonight. Sore muscles are not. At what point does training through soreness not product results. Why do we keep training if our performance is not improving, but rather decreasing? Would it kill me to take two days off to rest? To recharge? To stop being sore? Or do I benefit more from training through the soreness? Let's discuss. Because I'm really curious. Who has told you to not rest? They're wrong. Well, that was how I trained for two years with two different coaches. Sometimes I only got rest days because I took them, not because they were in my training plan. They didn't say NOT to rest... but when I get a training plan with every day booked... there ya go. This year I'm working from a training plan out of a book. I have modified to fit my lifestyle. We will see how my HIM goes and if that approach is a good one. Hopefully if every day was booked, the coaches explained you have active recovery built in...ie a zone 1 ride/run/walk...etc.. I am no physiology expert, just based on what I have studied/been instructed. FWIW, I was watching something on cycling and a coach of some of the pro riders was saying they spend up to 90% of their ride time each month in zone 1/2. My 2cents on the subject is to say, train if you are tired...but if your quads are actually hurting when you try to push the pedals, it needs to be a super light day...I think it was Marv from Atl who earlier in the thread said 'better to be smart than tough'...good words to train by. I also remember reading a thread a while back that said it's better to go into a race undertrained rather than overtrained... |
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