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2009-11-11 8:30 AM

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Subject: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
http://tinyurl.com/ylrhzez

The American Medical Assn. on Tuesday urged the federal government to reconsider its classification of marijuana as a dangerous drug with no accepted medical use, a significant shift that puts the prestigious group behind calls for more research.

The nation's largest physicians organization, with about 250,000 member doctors, the AMA has maintained since 1997 that marijuana should remain a Schedule I controlled substance, the most restrictive category, which also includes heroin and LSD.

In changing its policy, the group said its goal was to clear the way to conduct clinical research, develop cannabis-based medicines and devise alternative ways to deliver the drug.

"Despite more than 30 years of clinical research, only a small number of randomized, controlled trials have been conducted on smoked cannabis," said Dr. Edward Langston, an AMA board member, noting that the limited number of studies was "insufficient to satisfy the current standards for a prescription drug product."


2009-11-11 8:53 AM
in reply to: #2508395

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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
Politicians doesn't listen to the AMA since they know they can't provide votes.  Look at the Health Care bill, the AMA has been supporting that all along, I"ve yet to meet a Dr that agrees with the bill (not that changes do need to be made)

But for the article you provided, it does represent a shifting in tides so to speak of how marijuana is looked at.
The White House has said they are not going after the medical possession arrests, as an example
2009-11-11 9:02 AM
in reply to: #2508395

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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
Gary is right. The AMA were also against making steroids illegal. That went well :P
2009-11-11 9:07 AM
in reply to: #2508395

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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
I have refused to rejoin the AMA for many years.  IMO, it is just another bloated, self-important beauracracy.  I do agee, though, that there should be good, controlled trials to clear the smoke in the room and test for any real medical benefit.
2009-11-11 9:12 AM
in reply to: #2508395

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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana

Any group that takes a position is going to be on the correct side of some issues and the wrong side of other issues.

The AMA as I understand it represents a very small percentage of physicians.

They are wrong supporting the Pelosi health care disaster bill and on the right side of the marijunia one. Just my opinion.

I just got the thought of how funny it will be when they release all of the people in prison for marijunia related offenses and replace them with those who are conviced of not having helath insurance.

2009-11-11 11:42 AM
in reply to: #2508395

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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana

Whoah, dude! The AMA is totally righteous!



2009-11-11 11:51 AM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
I don't understand how the AMA cannot support medical marijuana studies when so many other far more addictive drugs are in use legally.
2009-11-11 11:56 AM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana

eberulf - 2009-11-11 9:51 AM I don't understand how the AMA cannot support medical marijuana studies when so many other far more addictive drugs are in use legally.

IMHO it's money, you can't get a patten on MJ, who will profit from MJ studies?

Same reason you see very few $$ spent on a lot of alternative medicine studies by the "legit" medical community.

2009-11-11 12:13 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
crusevegas - 2009-11-11 9:56 AM

eberulf - 2009-11-11 9:51 AM I don't understand how the AMA cannot support medical marijuana studies when so many other far more addictive drugs are in use legally.

IMHO it's money, you can't get a patten on MJ, who will profit from MJ studies?

Same reason you see very few $$ spent on a lot of alternative medicine studies by the "legit" medical community.




Money would certainly be a good reason to legalize pot across the board.  Rather than peoply buying it through the black market, it could be sold and TAXED legally.  I suspect it would bring in huge revenues.

As for doing studies to confirm its medicinal benefit, it might be profitable to some.  If they confirm its effectiveness, more companies would be licensed to grow it legally, and sell it.  The problem is that they wouldn't be able to charge too much for it, since folks could always just go back to the black market if the costs were too high.
2009-11-11 12:18 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
In an unrelated item, the Dallas-Fort Worth chapter of the AMA hosted executives from the Frito-Lay corporation for an executive luncheon.

Coincidence?  I think not.  :P























(ok, so it is a different AMA, but kind of funny)

2009-11-11 1:24 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
Plus if it's legal they can monitor dosage,   Right now how would the MD's right a script for it.

One joint x4 daily for 30days?


How do they know the quality of the joint the person smokes/eats.  it's hard to do a study if you have different types of drug.  One might be great the other crap.   They can't have a study taken seriously if they have no way to control the dosage.

Plus Marinol is THC, which is a legal drug, (not used to get high) that is prescribed.   they can study it, moniter it, and get funding for it.  


2009-11-11 1:35 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
Gaarryy - 2009-11-11 2:24 PM Plus if it's legal they can monitor dosage,   Right now how would the MD's right a script for it.

One joint x4 daily for 30days?


How do they know the quality of the joint the person smokes/eats.  it's hard to do a study if you have different types of drug.  One might be great the other crap.   They can't have a study taken seriously if they have no way to control the dosage.

Plus Marinol is THC, which is a legal drug, (not used to get high) that is prescribed.   they can study it, moniter it, and get funding for it.  


Marinol uptake in the gut is not consistant, someone who is practiced can more consistantly dose themselves by smoking than through ingesting marinol.  By the way you can already do experimentation with THC including buying it from the Fischer catalog.  Make sure you aliquot the dosages under nitrogen though as THC looses potency as it oxidizes.
2009-11-11 1:42 PM
in reply to: #2508928

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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
Tripolar - 2009-11-11 10:13 AM

crusevegas - 2009-11-11 9:56 AM

eberulf - 2009-11-11 9:51 AM I don't understand how the AMA cannot support medical marijuana studies when so many other far more addictive drugs are in use legally.

IMHO it's money, you can't get a patten on MJ, who will profit from MJ studies?

Same reason you see very few $$ spent on a lot of alternative medicine studies by the "legit" medical community.




Money would certainly be a good reason to legalize pot across the board.  Rather than peoply buying it through the black market, it could be sold and TAXED legally.  I suspect it would bring in huge revenues.

As for doing studies to confirm its medicinal benefit, it might be profitable to some.  If they confirm its effectiveness, more companies would be licensed to grow it legally, and sell it.  The problem is that they wouldn't be able to charge too much for it, since folks could always just go back to the black market if the costs were too high.


Oakland (CA) passed a ballot measure doing just that. I think it was in the '08 election.

Incidentally, the DEA recently revised their policy and declared that they aren't going to go after medical marijuana dispensaries that are operating in accordance with state laws.
2009-11-11 1:54 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana

I only know two things for sure - first - mj is a gateway drug to harder drugs.  Second - nothing fires up pot smokers exept talking about legalizing pot... 

2009-11-11 1:58 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
trinnas - 2009-11-11 1:35 PM
Gaarryy - 2009-11-11 2:24 PM Plus if it's legal they can monitor dosage,   Right now how would the MD's right a script for it.

One joint x4 daily for 30days?


How do they know the quality of the joint the person smokes/eats.  it's hard to do a study if you have different types of drug.  One might be great the other crap.   They can't have a study taken seriously if they have no way to control the dosage.

Plus Marinol is THC, which is a legal drug, (not used to get high) that is prescribed.   they can study it, moniter it, and get funding for it.  


Marinol uptake in the gut is not consistant, someone who is practiced can more consistantly dose themselves by smoking than through ingesting marinol.  By the way you can already do experimentation with THC including buying it from the Fischer catalog.  Make sure you aliquot the dosages under nitrogen though as THC looses potency as it oxidizes.


I should have pointed out that marinol is used for different purpose than the average person smoking.  And it's really splitting hairs about uptake of any oral drugs, is it correct that everyone is different yes.  But when you get written a script for something/anything does the ordering MD have any idea what that individual uptake is no.   
 What I was refering to about dosages is for people buying off the street, self medicating. What someone might have bought this week would be a completely different concentration or quality from last week.

but I did learn something today I didn't realize that you could order Marijuana or THC from the Fischer catalog. 
2009-11-11 2:06 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
Gaarryy - 2009-11-11 2:58 PM
trinnas - 2009-11-11 1:35 PM
Gaarryy - 2009-11-11 2:24 PM Plus if it's legal they can monitor dosage,   Right now how would the MD's right a script for it.

One joint x4 daily for 30days?


How do they know the quality of the joint the person smokes/eats.  it's hard to do a study if you have different types of drug.  One might be great the other crap.   They can't have a study taken seriously if they have no way to control the dosage.

Plus Marinol is THC, which is a legal drug, (not used to get high) that is prescribed.   they can study it, moniter it, and get funding for it.  


Marinol uptake in the gut is not consistant, someone who is practiced can more consistantly dose themselves by smoking than through ingesting marinol.  By the way you can already do experimentation with THC including buying it from the Fischer catalog.  Make sure you aliquot the dosages under nitrogen though as THC looses potency as it oxidizes.


I should have pointed out that marinol is used for different purpose than the average person smoking.  And it's really splitting hairs about uptake of any oral drugs, is it correct that everyone is different yes.  But when you get written a script for something/anything does the ordering MD have any idea what that individual uptake is no.   
 What I was refering to about dosages is for people buying off the street, self medicating. What someone might have bought this week would be a completely different concentration or quality from last week.

but I did learn something today I didn't realize that you could order Marijuana or THC from the Fischer catalog


Yep you can also get morphine and cocaine.... I had them in my lab fridge too.   They are all in what is considered an exempt amount for THC it is 1mg/ml EtOH.

My graduate research was in the antiinflammatory effects of THC, as well as some of its analogs and metabolites. 


2009-11-11 5:29 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana

eberulf - 2009-11-11 9:51 AM I don't understand how the AMA cannot support medical marijuana studies when so many other far more addictive drugs are in use legally.

i completely agree with the above statement.  that plus cigarettes and alcohol are far more addictive and dangerous than weed.  how many deaths can be attributed to weed vs alcohol OR cigarettes?  virtually none.

i am curious to know how many people have personal experience smoking weed?  i smoked for years and stopped about 8 years ago because i didn't like the way the smoke felt in my lungs.  i loved to get high and no it was not a gateway drug for me (that would be beer or alcohol).  i also stopped cold turkey and had no withdrawal symptoms.  i tried a few other drugs in college (once, just to try them) and did mushrooms a few times, which is just like being high except a little more intense and for a longer period of time.  

one thing that marijuana did for me and others i know is that when allergy season hits, i get excruciating pain in my eyes.  feels as if someone is standing inside my head trying to shove my eyeballs out of my head.  literally.  the ONLY thing that alleviated the pain was weed.  no amount of advil, tylenol, aspirin, claritin, zyrtec or whatever would even take the edge off.  a lot has been said that glaucoma patients find relief in the pain they experience from smoking weed.  cancer patients same thing - some find that it helps to stimulate their appetite as well.  

the stereotype or generalization that all pot smokers are jeff spicoli is just wrong.  i know SO MANY that are incredibly successful, hold down VERY well paid corporate jobs, have families, etc.  pot is used for them in the exact same way that alcohol is used - on occasion, after work to chill out, in social situations, etc.  not in a chronic smoke all day and zone out in front of the tv kind of way that so many people associate with weed.  there are different strains of pot, some that will make you feel like chilling and zoning on the couch all day.  other strains/varieties are more upbeat, some take a while til they kick in.  i haven't been to a dispensary, but i know what they're about from the friends i have that have medical marijuana cards. 

lastly, i know a daily smoker very well that is a runner (and a successful businessman).  he runs every other day and is about to toe the line to qualify for boston.  he can run a 10k in sub-7 minute miles without even trying.  he's not the exception to the rule either, just one example.

 

2009-11-11 6:16 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
You should see the finances involved.

A local gynecologist does CA medical marijuana cards one day a week.
In an almost vacant office, not his legit one.

$150 cash-only gets you a 5 minute consult; you claim anxiety-bad back-insomnia,;you get a "recommendation" for the card.

You pay someone else $50 for the card w/ your "recommendation".

You go to dispensary and buy legally with 99% college stoners with anxiety-bad back-insomnia and 1 % sick people with glaucoma or on chemo.

Think of the math in this economy.

If you can see 10 patients an hour. $1500. No staff, almost no overhead, no real liability... Just one piece of paper.
Everyone leaves happy... or will be...

I wonder how much of that income even gets claimed on the books?
2009-11-11 7:07 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
eabeam - 2009-11-11 6:16 PM You should see the finances involved.

A local gynecologist does CA medical marijuana cards one day a week.
In an almost vacant office, not his legit one.

$150 cash-only gets you a 5 minute consult; you claim anxiety-bad back-insomnia,;you get a "recommendation" for the card.

You pay someone else $50 for the card w/ your "recommendation".

You go to dispensary and buy legally with 99% college stoners with anxiety-bad back-insomnia and 1 % sick people with glaucoma or on chemo.

Think of the math in this economy.

If you can see 10 patients an hour. $1500. No staff, almost no overhead, no real liability... Just one piece of paper.
Everyone leaves happy... or will be...

I wonder how much of that income even gets claimed on the books?


Ok I"m going to show my ignorance here.  

let me start off by saying I totally agree with what you are describing,   I think the money angle is something that should be pursued,  even though I usually joke that if I was a dealer making large amounts of cash I'd be ticked off that someone is buying it elsewhere and would most likely attempt to pull a tony soprano "you need protection" on someone to get back that lost income.   But that's not my actual question.  It deals with the bolded. 

When you go into the dispensary, and show your card how do you know how much you are getting, It's what i was trying to say before.  If my regular doc writes a script for {fill in the blank} 5mg each once a day,  I feel pretty confident that I'm getting that 5mg patch, how do people know the potency of what they are getting from one visit to the other?   If it's all self medicated I think it would be hard to get solid numbers for a study.  Since people would take "X" amount one day, and if that's not enough just take "2X" the next day.  

Does that make sense of what I'm trying to describe and ask?? 
2009-11-11 7:35 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
I think Gary just wants to get really, really high.
2009-11-11 7:57 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
JBrashear - 2009-11-11 7:35 PM I think Gary just wants to get really, really high.


and shockingly I"ve never indulged before,, I've been to parties where it was passed around but was never interested in trying it.


2009-11-11 8:18 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
Gaarryy - 2009-11-11 7:57 PM
JBrashear - 2009-11-11 7:35 PM I think Gary just wants to get really, really high.


and shockingly I"ve never indulged before,, I've been to parties where it was passed around but was never interested in trying it.


I would actually pay money to see you high.
2009-11-11 8:28 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
DerekL - 2009-11-11 9:18 PM
Gaarryy - 2009-11-11 7:57 PM
JBrashear - 2009-11-11 7:35 PM I think Gary just wants to get really, really high.


and shockingly I"ve never indulged before,, I've been to parties where it was passed around but was never interested in trying it.


I would actually pay money to see you high.


So does this mean there's a bong party at Derek's house??????  Cool

2009-11-11 8:32 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana
trinnas - 2009-11-11 8:28 PM
DerekL - 2009-11-11 9:18 PM
Gaarryy - 2009-11-11 7:57 PM
JBrashear - 2009-11-11 7:35 PM I think Gary just wants to get really, really high.


and shockingly I"ve never indulged before,, I've been to parties where it was passed around but was never interested in trying it.


I would actually pay money to see you high.


So does this mean there's a bong party at Derek's house??????  Cool



Define "party".
2009-11-11 8:33 PM
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Subject: RE: AMA reverses field on medical marijuana

Gaarryy - 2009-11-11 5:07 PM
eabeam - 2009-11-11 6:16 PM You should see the finances involved.

A local gynecologist does CA medical marijuana cards one day a week.
In an almost vacant office, not his legit one.

$150 cash-only gets you a 5 minute consult; you claim anxiety-bad back-insomnia,;you get a "recommendation" for the card.

You pay someone else $50 for the card w/ your "recommendation".

You go to dispensary and buy legally with 99% college stoners with anxiety-bad back-insomnia and 1 % sick people with glaucoma or on chemo.

Think of the math in this economy.

If you can see 10 patients an hour. $1500. No staff, almost no overhead, no real liability... Just one piece of paper.
Everyone leaves happy... or will be...

I wonder how much of that income even gets claimed on the books?


Ok I"m going to show my ignorance here.  

let me start off by saying I totally agree with what you are describing,   I think the money angle is something that should be pursued,  even though I usually joke that if I was a dealer making large amounts of cash I'd be ticked off that someone is buying it elsewhere and would most likely attempt to pull a tony soprano "you need protection" on someone to get back that lost income.   But that's not my actual question.  It deals with the bolded. 

When you go into the dispensary, and show your card how do you know how much you are getting, It's what i was trying to say before.  If my regular doc writes a script for {fill in the blank} 5mg each once a day,  I feel pretty confident that I'm getting that 5mg patch, how do people know the potency of what they are getting from one visit to the other?   If it's all self medicated I think it would be hard to get solid numbers for a study.  Since people would take "X" amount one day, and if that's not enough just take "2X" the next day.  

Does that make sense of what I'm trying to describe and ask?? 

To answer your question in the above bold red...

1) The "card" is simply a piece of paper.  You bring it in and they put you in the system.  If you go to the same dispensary, you don't have to show your card each time.  When you go to a new one, you have to show your card.

2) THere is literally a menu of options, almost like a kid in a candy store.  People that smoke weed know the different names of the strains that have been around (i.e. purple haze or sour diesel) for the various strains.  There are two types, sativa and indica.  each can produce a different type of high.  you can also talk to the people in the dispensary as they know the different potencies and you tell them what you are looking for, they'll make a recommendation.

3) the dr doesn't prescribe in the same way a regular dr prescribes meds as in 'smoke 2 joints a day."  in CA you are allowed to purchase i think up to 3 ounces at a time.  i think you can only purchase 3oz per week - but don't quote me on that.  

4) most people that i know that have the 'card' are not smoking (or buying) 3 oz at a time.  you know your limit and you smoke til you feel good.  it is VERY different from drinking beer/wine/liquor where you keep drinking, stumble, slur your words, feel woozy, forget things and wake up with a hangover.  

5) everyone i know or is a supporter of legalization has no problem with taxing it because the prices you pay in the dispensary are far far cheaper than you pay on the black market.  tax it even slightly and it is still cheaper.

6) how do you know how much you are getting?  i think it is already measured out.  you can also weigh it at home if you really want to know.

7) lastly, they also sell edibles if you don't like the idea of smoking.  cookies, lollipops, breath strips (yes) and other things.

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