Help Get me Back to Kona

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2010-01-19 7:44 AM

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Subject: Help Get me Back to Kona

Overview:
I am looking for a coach. I do not have a ton of money right now, so I am looking for the most bang for my buck. I raced Kona in 2009, had an awesome time, but a poor race because of poor timing with a bike crash / late build / poor fit. So I want to go back. Since October my work schedule has been changing quite a bit. I am willing to dedicate this year to simply build for next year as long as I get to race a few times.

Candidate:
Who is the ideal candidate? Someone with previous experience, and still looking to prove themselves and increase their resume. I am not looking for someone to hold my hand, but someone to make sure I stay on task / target. Ideally someone who is close but training over the internet is fine. I do not care about USAT certification, previous experience is far more valuable. I am NOT looking for your coach, I do not want you to justify to me why you think your coach is good for you.

About Me:
I am fit, healthy, and can regularly dedicate 10hours / week. I can schedule more on an irregular basis. I have access to two gyms both with pools. I have a powertap, and trainer. I am a single father so I can get a ton of biking miles in but as of late barely run outside. I have logged every workout I did in 2009 and nearly everything from 2008. Single digit bodyfat numbers.

2009 Volume:
Bike:184h 52m 20s - 3254.91 Mi
x-small;">Run:152h 09m 53s - 952.43 Mi
Swim:64h 16m 50s - 186628 Yd
For that volume I only biked outside 10 times. 4 times were races, 2 centuries+, 4 shorter rides (40-70miles).


Task:
Qualify and race Kona in 2011.
I willing to attempt two qualifiers in 2011.

Responsibilities:
Ensure that I qualify for Kona.
Custom training plan. Plan specifics:

  • Custom to me
  • Revised based on feedback
  • Based on power for the bike
  • Consistent feedback
  • Tips
What I am not willing to do includes (but is not limted to):
  • Quitting my job
  • Forsaking my daughter
  • Giving up the very minimal social life I have
  • Moving
  • Buying a bunch of crap you may sell
    •


Pay:
Your reward is higher then what you may normally charge because the the 'pay' below, but your risk is also higher.
You get a round trip ticket from where you live to Kona (probably on United and possibly 1st class depending on my miles), and hotel stay. If you decide to figure out your own lodgings I would pay a per night rate to you instead. I also have a reseller license and can purchase most equipment at wholesale if you need something.

You also get to have your logo placed on my kit, and use my likeness in advertising.

Basically it boils down to this: You get me qualified for the Ironman World Championships in Kona, I buy you a roundtrip ticket and pay for a hotel.

We can also right something up to make me accountable. If you have any questions ask.


Approximate value of $1800. You could take that as wholesale value.
I am an equal opportunity employer.



Edited by aarondavidson 2010-01-19 7:54 AM

2010-01-19 7:53 AM
in reply to: #2621151

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Subject: RE: ---
Aaron, are you saying you want to go back to Kona? Did you win another lottery slot?
2010-01-19 7:56 AM
in reply to: #2621169

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Subject: RE: ---

bryancd - 2010-01-19 8:53 AM Aaron, are you saying you want to go back to Kona? Did you win another lottery slot?

No. Did not buy in, and its not announced for a few more months.

I willing to attempt two qualifiers in 2011.

Responsibilities:
Ensure that I qualify for Kona.

2010-01-19 8:02 AM
in reply to: #2621171

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Subject: RE: ---
aarondavidson - 2010-01-19 7:56 AM

bryancd - 2010-01-19 8:53 AM Aaron, are you saying you want to go back to Kona? Did you win another lottery slot?

No. Did not buy in, and its not announced for a few more months.

I willing to attempt two qualifiers in 2011.

Responsibilities:
Ensure that I qualify for Kona.



Got it, missed that. Do you really think it's reasonable to expect to Kona qualify on 10 hours per week coming from where you are within 2 years?
2010-01-19 9:29 AM
in reply to: #2621179

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Subject: RE: ---

bryancd - 2010-01-19 9:02 AM
aarondavidson - 2010-01-19 7:56 AM

bryancd - 2010-01-19 8:53 AM Aaron, are you saying you want to go back to Kona? Did you win another lottery slot?

No. Did not buy in, and its not announced for a few more months.

I willing to attempt two qualifiers in 2011.

Responsibilities:
Ensure that I qualify for Kona.

Got it, missed that. Do you really think it's reasonable to expect to Kona qualify on 10 hours per week coming from where you are within 2 years?

Yes. If I did not think I could or had a shot at it, I would not post.

Again I can religiously do 10hours, but can do more just can not plan more than 10 until a week or so in advance, hence the irregular basis for more hours.

2010-01-19 9:58 AM
in reply to: #2621441

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Subject: RE: ---

With all due respect Aaron, until your easy long runs are 7:30/mile or lower, long bikes are 22+ mph and you are swiming 400s around 5:20 or lower, I just don't understand how anyone can have an expectation to KQ at the AG we're talking about here.  Even when you hit those standards (which are minimum standards), anything can and will go wrong on race day.  Plus, you have no control as to who shows up and if spots will roll down.....the variables out of your control are endless.

If you are going to KQ at 70.3 distance, I think the above standards need to be even better.

I'm a huge "believer" and "dreamer," and I believe in order to achieve Kona, you must believe it is possible, and take that attitude towards training everyday, which I do.  At the same time, ideal expectations when seeking out a coach is a must. 
Just giving some honest advice as it seems that is what you are after.....to seek out a coach whos only compensation is going to be tied to you KQing with your current level of fitness may not be the best avenue. 

Also, 10 hours per week is not even close to what its going to take based on your current logs.  More like 20.

2010-01-19 10:24 AM
in reply to: #2621441

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Subject: RE: ---
aarondavidson - 2010-01-19 9:29 AM
Yes. If I did not think I could or had a shot at it, I would not post


  • .it was a rhetorical question.

    • Listen, you know I am a big fan of yours and was very supportive of you racing in Kona when you got the lottery slot but were unsure if you should go or not. You worked hard to put together the best race you could.

    Qualifying for Kona, though, is something different. You know. I have started a few threads to discuss "What it Takes" to get there. At the end of the day, an athlete needs to hit a number of key benchmarks in their training and racing. As Mike said above, to be in the mix you need to be able to hit certain pace goals for the three splits to have a chance. There are also race results which give you the best indication of how closey you are to that.

    In general, KQ's are sub 4:30 Half IM athletes or sub 2:15 Olympic athletes. They are guys who can ride 21+ mph for 112 mile AND run 3:30 marathons off of that. I think you could, over time, start getting close to those numbers. I believe you are a good athlete with a good work ethic. However, it is exceedingly uinlikely you will see those kind of gains in the next 2 years at 10 hours per week training. There's no incentive for a coach here totake up your challenge. If your goal was say to be able to do a sub 11 IM by 2011 and then shoot for a sub 10 in 2012, that get's you closer and is reasonable.
    2010-01-19 11:13 AM
    in reply to: #2621151

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    Master
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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    I am not a coach and bryan and others have experiance but  I am an  engineer and looked at  some results and stats and the way it looks ,there is no way to get into kona doing a USA IM events. Your chances are greater going  over to do IM races in Asia which have the most Kona slots open than anywhere else and the races do not fill up. With  that  said you could get a slot with 10hrs a week training in your AG depending on who shows up and how many the slots roll down.. Just my 2 cents. Cost to benefit ratio(little money= little time training = Asia IM races= greater chance of a AG slot to kona)
    2010-01-19 11:25 AM
    in reply to: #2621754

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    Ok,

    As a coach in triathlon and rowing, and an athlete, here are my thoughts:

    I think you *could* get there on that training, but god you would have to bust your in all of it and be very lucky.

    I have/do with a few athletes in special circumstances for less/trading services. But normally in those cases its a give and take.

    My issue would come in here: lets say you actually get fast enough in that time to make it there. You miss the time/place in your first race, 2nd one rolls around (or the last chance, whatever) 3 miles from the end of hte bike you are elading you AG, and get a flat............ and miss it by a min.

    someone just devoted 2 years of coaching for nothing.
    2010-01-19 11:33 AM
    in reply to: #2621784

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    Sensei
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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    I think southwest has some cheap flights now...
    2010-01-19 11:35 AM
    in reply to: #2621805

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    Kido - 2010-01-19 11:33 AM I think southwest has some cheap flights now...


    and bags fly free....

    2010-01-19 12:20 PM
    in reply to: #2621151

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    Master
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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    This is a tough topic. You don't want to discourage Aaron but the reality is if you want to qualify, you will need to be faster than the times that he has posted.

    Aaron, I think everyone has given you good advice here pal.

    Mike
    2010-01-19 12:31 PM
    in reply to: #2621151

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    Expert
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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona

    Here is my 2 cents...

    Often there are debates on this site on the topic of quality vs. quantity. Some of it's good info, and sometimes it's not, and sometimes its just bad advice.  In the case of qualifying for Hawaii for the first time, quantity pretty much rules the debate. You have to get out there and do it over and over. If you look at what qualified your age group for Kona...

    IM AZ8:52:36COBLECHRISTOPHERM25-2952:37:004:24:004:44:441:55:003:08:57

    .

    		IM FL9:02:12PABLOURETAM25-2956:25:002:42:004:50:102:45:003:10:12

    .

    		IM FL9:07:41BROWNADAMM25-2953:53:004:59:004:51:543:29:003:13:29

    .

    		IM WI9:08:47GARDNERANDYM25-2951:11:004:23:005:00:074:26:003:08:40

    .

    		IM AZ9:12:45OTSTOTADAMM25-2955:31:004:19:004:59:551:33:003:11:29

    .

    		IM AZ9:17:54SCHERBCLIFFM25-2957:41:004:41:004:48:502:22:003:24:22
               

    .

    		IM FL9:19:48BUECHLERMARCUSM25-2954:50:003:12:005:03:133:28:003:15:06

    .

    		IM WI9:24:41STILGENBAUERJUERGENM25-291:03:005:42:005:10:052:01:003:03:55

    .

    		IM CD9:31:09L'HEUREUXGEOFFM25-291:00:002:52:005:02:261:42:003:24:11

    .

    		IM WI9:34:30YAMRYROBM25-291:09:314:56:005:13:323:02:003:03:31

    .

    		IM CD9:35:34GOLDENBRADM25-2956:25:004:12:005:15:393:30:003:15:50

    .

    		IM CD9:36:58KILLIANROBERTM25-291:11:123:17:005:09:001:36:003:11:55

    .

    		IM WI9:38:49ALPERADAMM25-2957:50:005:19:005:18:453:28:003:13:30

    .

    		IM WI9:38:49BROWNNICHOLASM25-2958:07:003:49:005:15:482:59:003:18:06

    .

    		IM WI9:39:32KURIANJOEM25-2959:03:005:35:005:15:233:47:003:15:46

    .

    		IM LP9:41:04SCHINKELCHRISTIANM25-291:04:414:40:005:12:231:34:003:17:49

    .

    		IM WI9:42:17SCELFOKEVINM25-291:08:264:33:005:07:364:09:003:17:32

    .

    		IM CD9:43:12DAVIEMATTHEWM25-2955:35:003:02:005:19:541:39:003:23:05

    .

    		IM WI9:45:34LOPESVALENTINM25-291:01:052:56:005:14:465:55:003:20:51

    .

    		IM LP9:49:01BENHABIBLARBIM25-291:00:524:59:005:15:412:43:003:24:47

    .

    		IM CA9:50:36GREGORYORNONM25-2952:57:002:59:004:58:062:46:003:53:51

    .

    		IM CA9:52:19CHRISSPRINGERM25-291:02:162:56:005:11:012:31:003:33:37

    .

    		IM WI9:52:22WEHANCHRISTOPHERM25-291:15:523:50:005:12:173:32:003:16:50

    .

    		IM CA9:53:17JUSTINLADNERM25-291:00:492:38:005:14:043:50:003:31:57

    .

    		IM LP10:00:35FRANKJASONM25-2958:40:004:38:005:31:503:19:003:22:10
    You can see that you pretty much need to be out of the water in 1 hour, ride a 5:15 to 5:25, and run not a heck of a lot slower than 3:30- 3:40. If you take the slow end of all of my estimates, then you come up with a time a bit slower than 10 hours and miss the cut. So 1 or 2 of these events must be quicker than my estimates to make up the difference.  In my case, I have a faster than normal swim to make up for my shortcomings. throw in a hot day with some slower times and I got lucky.

    If 10 hours is your limit in training, then you may want to look to qualifying at a 70.3. The speed requirement increases, but the volume needed may not be quite so severe. I personally think that it's possible to get to Kona on 10 hours of training, but it may take a few seasons to get there.  If I were you, I would starting riding and running as much as you could in the time available. I wouldn't even worry about coaching. Track your weekly mileage and see how much you can fit in. Once your times drop to the range that cusetri suggests, then bust out a coach.

    Good luck and let me know if I can help.
    2010-01-19 12:36 PM
    in reply to: #2621784

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    newbz - 2010-01-19 11:25 AM

    I think you *could* get there on that training, but god you would have to bust your in all of it and be very lucky.


    In a general sense, not specific to Aaron, qualifying for Kona is so competitive that unless you have the genetics, it's all about the work. I averaged 12+ hours./week last year in my KQ build up. I can get away with that because of genetics, but most KQ guys I know put in way more time and volume than I do. Again, in a general sense, 10 hours isn't going to get it done when others are training 15-20 and even then not always making it.

    Now, you show me a 4:30 Half IM athlete with 10 hours per week, MAYBE you make them fast enough to win a 70.3 AG slot or be in the mix for an IM slot, but that's a big maybe with only 18 months of preperation.

    Edited by bryancd 2010-01-19 12:51 PM
    2010-01-19 12:52 PM
    in reply to: #2621977

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    bryancd - 2010-01-19 11:36 AM

    newbz - 2010-01-19 11:25 AM

    I think you *could* get there on that training, but god you would have to bust your in all of it and be very lucky.


    In a general sense, not specific to Aaron, qualifying for Kona is so competitive that unless you have the genetics, it's all about the work. I averaged 12+ hours./week last year in my KQ build up. I can get away with that because of genetics, but most KQ guys I know put in way more time and volume than I do. Again, in a general sense, 10 hours isn't going to get it done when others are training 15-20 and even then not always making it.


    exactly, i am the same wway with shorter races, i did my first olympic in 2:07 on a hilly course, ave maybe 5 hours a week. But for most of us (myself included) there is just no substitute for the work.

    I personally am around 10 hours right nwo, have yet to ad swimming back in, and am only biking a few hours right now. I cannot even wrap my head around it on that time,. Nor do i think i could probably do it right now on the 20ish hours i plan on doing this year.
    2010-01-19 1:06 PM
    in reply to: #2621932

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    Rollin' Thunder - 2010-01-19 12:20 PM

    This is a tough topic. You don't want to discourage Aaron but the reality is if you want to qualify, you will need to be faster than the times that he has posted.

    Aaron, I think everyone has given you good advice here pal.

    Mike


    It's not mean, it's just math. It's not an indictement of anyone's heart or desire or willingness to work.

    2010-01-19 1:10 PM
    in reply to: #2621151

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    Since it looks like you don't have anyone taking you up on your offer, perhaps you should post this same thing over on slowtwitch, since they might have coaches over there that are interested.

    Post a link to the thread if you do.
    2010-01-19 1:19 PM
    in reply to: #2622070

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    steven_lohmann - 2010-01-19 2:10 PM Since it looks like you don't have anyone taking you up on your offer, perhaps you should post this same thing over on slowtwitch, since they might have coaches over there that are interested. Post a link to the thread if you do.


    Now this is mean

    He'll get slaughtered if he were to do this.  The people on this thread have been very reasonable, courteous, and helpful.  The same generosity won't be extended over there
    2010-01-19 1:37 PM
    in reply to: #2622070

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    see the thing is, i would be more interested in finding a situation where i got something back out of it for a much lower cost.

    Yes i would love to go to hawaii, or say i coached someone there, but the reality is depending on what someone wants under 1 years worth of coaching, IF the stars align.
    2010-01-19 1:45 PM
    in reply to: #2621151

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    Did you qualify for your '09 slot at Kona, or was it a buy-in?

    If you qualified somewhere, I don't see why you're getting criticism from everyone. You know how much it takes, what you can do, etc, since you've been there before, so you're just looking to do it again. Were you able to qualify in '09 on the same amount of training volume that you're planning for 2011? Maybe I'm missing something... *shrug*

    Edited by InsainoDwayno 2010-01-19 1:46 PM
    2010-01-19 1:55 PM
    in reply to: #2622233

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    InsainoDwayno - 2010-01-19 1:45 PM Did you qualify for your '09 slot at Kona, or was it a buy-in?

    If you qualified somewhere, I don't see why you're getting criticism from everyone. You know how much it takes, what you can do, etc, since you've been there before, so you're just looking to do it again. Were you able to qualify in '09 on the same amount of training volume that you're planning for 2011? Maybe I'm missing something... *shrug*


    He had a lottery slot.

    I'm pulling for you Aaron.  Let me know if you want to get some training in.  We'll synch up.

    2010-01-19 3:54 PM
    in reply to: #2622233

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    InsainoDwayno - 2010-01-19 1:45 PM
    Maybe I'm missing something... *shrug*


    That would be reading my second post where I asked Aaron if he won ANOTHER lottery slot. Helps to read through the posts to stay on topic.
    2010-01-19 4:18 PM
    in reply to: #2621151

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    Regardless of if you can qualify or not:

    I would think that most people who coach would look at your proposition and say 'no way.'  There is too much risk - even if they are successful in getting you to Kona, the Pay is essentially $1800/2 years = $75 per month.  I think most coaches who do custom plans charge atleast double that rate. 

    While I understand where you are coming from w/the advertising etc, I don't think you will entice many coaches with this business strategy. 
    2010-01-19 4:20 PM
    in reply to: #2621151

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    just doing the math, you're asking for a coach to give you one-on-one constant training for 22 months (you said 2011 Kona, right) for $1800...that breaks down to less than $20/week...how much time do you think someone will spend analyzing your power tap, HRM data, workout progression for that price tag?
    2010-01-19 4:46 PM
    in reply to: #2622061

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    Subject: RE: Help Get me Back to Kona
    bryancd - 2010-01-19 12:06 PM

    Rollin' Thunder - 2010-01-19 12:20 PM

    This is a tough topic. You don't want to discourage Aaron but the reality is if you want to qualify, you will need to be faster than the times that he has posted.

    Aaron, I think everyone has given you good advice here pal.

    Mike


    It's not mean, it's just math. It's not an indictement of anyone's heart or desire or willingness to work.


    Oh I agree. I am going to throw my hat into the ring and say not going to happen based on his previous performances. It's not mean, it's just the math...

    Mike
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