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Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems)
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 2010-05-12 10:17 PM |
New user 15 |  Subject: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems)Hello all, I'll be participating in the 2010 Long Beach Sprint and the Tinman in San Bernardino. My plan is to complete the run for both in minimalist footwear. I've read Born to Run and I am currently reading Running Faster and Injury Free, by Gordon Pirie. The fundamentals contained in both struck a powerful chord with me and I can't shake the logic presented by the authors of both books. Running without the Nike style heel strike seems to be a much more efficient method of locomotion. It also seems to be a gateway to running without the injuries associated with the heel strike. Here's my problem: My feet and lower extremities are not accustomed to running without the big wedge of cushion provided by modern shoes. I put down two miles last week, at a good pace (8 min mile), in my Vibrams and managed to hurt myself pretty good. My left foot doesn't seem to want to land the same way my right does. My right lands fine and recoils very well. My left lands sort of flat and without spring. My question: Has anyone trained barefoot, or with minimalist footwear, for 5k distances (or greater). If so, how did you go about breaking into it and what advice could you share? Thanks in advance. |
| 2010-05-12 10:47 PM in reply to: #2855406 |
Expert 618  | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) Gumwars - 2010-05-12 11:17 PM Hello all, I'll be participating in the 2010 Long Beach Sprint and the Tinman in San Bernardino. My plan is to complete the run for both in minimalist footwear. I've read Born to Run and I am currently reading Running Faster and Injury Free, by Gordon Pirie. The fundamentals contained in both struck a powerful chord with me and I can't shake the logic presented by the authors of both books. Running without the Nike style heel strike seems to be a much more efficient method of locomotion. It also seems to be a gateway to running without the injuries associated with the heel strike. 1) Humans may have always run barefoot but humans also didn't run on pavement and concrete. 2) You injured yourself right after trying it (which is a VERY common occurance). 3) There is absolutely ZERO wrong with heel striking. There is something wrong with landing with your foot in front of your center of mass - THAT is what casues problems. 4) Why in the world would you want to go minimalist? Just wear a light weight racing shoe. At least that way you have protection from rocks/glass/shrapnel on the road and still minimize the cushioning. 5) What was fundamentally wrong with your old shoes? Were you injured by running in them? I have been running on and off for 20 years. This "barefoot" premise is a fad and it will burn out soon enough in my opinion. |
| 2010-05-12 11:38 PM in reply to: #2855432 |
Champion 8540     the colony texas | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) Road Phoenix - 2010-05-12 10:47 PM Gumwars - 2010-05-12 11:17 PM Hello all, I'll be participating in the 2010 Long Beach Sprint and the Tinman in San Bernardino. My plan is to complete the run for both in minimalist footwear. I've read Born to Run and I am currently reading Running Faster and Injury Free, by Gordon Pirie. The fundamentals contained in both struck a powerful chord with me and I can't shake the logic presented by the authors of both books. Running without the Nike style heel strike seems to be a much more efficient method of locomotion. It also seems to be a gateway to running without the injuries associated with the heel strike. 1) Humans may have always run barefoot but humans also didn't run on pavement and concrete. 2) You injured yourself right after trying it (which is a VERY common occurance). 3) There is absolutely ZERO wrong with heel striking. There is something wrong with landing with your foot in front of your center of mass - THAT is what casues problems. 4) Why in the world would you want to go minimalist? Just wear a light weight racing shoe. At least that way you have protection from rocks/glass/shrapnel on the road and still minimize the cushioning. 5) What was fundamentally wrong with your old shoes? Were you injured by running in them? I have been running on and off for 20 years. This "barefoot" premise is a fad and it will burn out soon enough in my opinion. all extremely great points, the only other thing I have to add is starting slow and building, maybe start with 5min running on a soft surface for the first couple of weeks, then slowly build up. |
| 2010-05-12 11:51 PM in reply to: #2855406 |
| Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) I have been incorparating barefoot into my runs. I am not thinking of running any races like that, but I tried it. I found it is making my legs stronger in different spots. I am however only doing a little bit at a time. The first time I did a mile and hurt for 2 days. So I cut back and started again at 4 minutes at the end of my run and kept building up. I am back to a mile and stop there. The man that owns the LRS runs races in VFF's, up to marathon distance. he seems to like it. |
| 2010-05-13 12:02 AM in reply to: #2855406 |
| Veteran 288 | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) Its takes a long time to adjust properly to full barefoot running... at least 6 - 12 months. Pavement is the best surface to learn to run barefoot on despite some non-barefoot runners concerns. Sounds like you did too much too soon, you have to start with a very gradual buildup. The real question you need to ask yourself is do you have the patience to do the long gradual change over and be willing to miss racing for an undetermined amount of time? Its best to learn full barefoot first before going with the thin shoes, if you start with the thin shoes first you still can't really run barefoot properly. If your goal is to run in thin flat shoes and not full barefoot then a little barefoot here and there would still help your running form. I have been running barefoot for several years and still run in flat shoes some... not "racing flats " which aren't flat at all. I changed over for injury related reasons so I had plenty of time since I wasn't running hardly any at the time. I did 3 shorter triathlons last year barefoot and 5k thru half marathons barefoot and one trail marathon in flat shoes. I don't know if you should or shouldn't switch up, others here will give advice on that part but if your still interested check out http://therunningbarefoot.com/ its the oldest barefoot running resource on the web. Also here is a beginner type starting plan for some ideas http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/runner-communities/barefoot-running/new-barefoot-minimalist-runners-start-here Edited by rockrunner 2010-05-13 12:03 AM |
| 2010-05-13 6:14 AM in reply to: #2855406 |
| New user 15 | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) Dynamite advice all. Thanks for taking the time to post a reply. |
| 2010-05-13 6:33 AM in reply to: #2855571 |
Master 2638 | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) I just received VFFs for Mother's Day. I wore them for a short .3 mile jog on grass with my kids. I've done this run barefoot before with no ill effects. However, then we went to the store and for a little walk around the trail (2.25 miles). By the end of the evening, my right foot hurt so bad, I couldn't walk. The problem resolved with some ibuprophen and an evening's rest, but I was sure that I had given myself a stress fracture. So, the moral is to go slowly. I'm going to wear my VFFs to work today (it's casual day) and continue to ease into walking with them. Running is way off for me. |
| 2010-05-13 6:44 AM in reply to: #2855406 |
Extreme Veteran 417 | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) I read Born to Run and got all jacked up about barefoot/midfoot too. After a marathon I took a month off running and came back to it with a much shorter stride using some midfoot principles. Now I run everyday, have cut a few minutes off my 5K pr and I have zero pain. And I'm in the exact same shoes I used to run in, although my replacements will have less control features (but hardly minimalist). What I'm saying is you can improve form without going off the barefoot deep end. If you go the VFF route or barefoot, you need to go extremely slowly. I'm talking like a half mile every other day for a week or two and then lengthen the run ONLY if you experience no pain. |
| 2010-05-13 6:59 AM in reply to: #2855406 |
Veteran 123 Florida | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) I'm starting to think about incorporating some barefoot running and from what I've read it is a very slow transition. I think you jumped in way too fast. I'm sure if you hit some of those barefoot or VFF sites you'll find articles on how to progress into it. |
| 2010-05-13 7:01 AM in reply to: #2855406 |
Veteran 163 Newburgh, Indiana | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) Gumwars - 2010-05-12 10:17 PM Hello all, Here's my problem: My feet and lower extremities are not accustomed to running without the big wedge of cushion provided by modern shoes. I put down two miles last week, at a good pace (8 min mile), in my Vibrams and managed to hurt myself pretty good. My left foot doesn't seem to want to land the same way my right does. My right lands fine and recoils very well. My left lands sort of flat and without spring. My question: Has anyone trained barefoot, or with minimalist footwear, for 5k distances (or greater). If so, how did you go about breaking into it and what advice could you share? Thanks in advance. Mistake #1 -- When starting out with minimal footwear - take it easy - don't push the pace. Start out perhaps with 10% of your mileage in the VFF's and build very slowly from there. Additionally, Pavement is NOT the best surface to start out barefoot. You will find that you will be much less sore the following day by using your VFF's on turf rather than pavement. Switch over to pavement when you have built up a good base in your minimal shoes. I would not plan to race in them this year. Someone mentioned 6-12 months to adjust and I think that is a fair estimate. I started last October and just completed a half marathon in minimal shoes on the asphalt. More significantly however, I wasn't sore the following day. You can switch back and forth from running shoes and minimal shoes without any problem. Your body will automatically adapt when running in the minimal shoes - kinda like when you ran around barefoot as a kid (you didn't have to stop and think not to land on your heel) If you were having problems with your left foot, chances were it was due to pushing too hard. Find a grassy field, eg soccer, baseball etc..., put on your VFF's and just jog, don't need to think about form. Your body will adapt immediately. Expect very sore calves and achilles as your build your mileage. This is normal. Best of luck in your venture |
| 2010-05-13 7:05 AM in reply to: #2855406 |
Pro 4353 Wallingford, PA | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) Gumwars - 2010-05-12 11:17 PM Hello all, I'll be participating in the 2010 Long Beach Sprint and the Tinman in San Bernardino. My plan is to complete the run for both in minimalist footwear. I've read Born to Run and I am currently reading Running Faster and Injury Free, by Gordon Pirie. The fundamentals contained in both struck a powerful chord with me and I can't shake the logic presented by the authors of both books. Running without the Nike style heel strike seems to be a much more efficient method of locomotion. It also seems to be a gateway to running without the injuries associated with the heel strike. Here's my problem: My feet and lower extremities are not accustomed to running without the big wedge of cushion provided by modern shoes. I put down two miles last week, at a good pace (8 min mile), in my Vibrams and managed to hurt myself pretty good. My left foot doesn't seem to want to land the same way my right does. My right lands fine and recoils very well. My left lands sort of flat and without spring. My question: Has anyone trained barefoot, or with minimalist footwear, for 5k distances (or greater). If so, how did you go about breaking into it and what advice could you share? Thanks in advance. So, if I'm reading this correctly, you went out and ran 2 miles at a fast pace in VFF's and got hurt. Was this your FIRST run in the VFF's? If so -- BAD idea.... As others have said, you really need to take your time. And it's not for everyone. I've been incorporating some barefoot/VFF runs into my overall training, but I don' think I see myself going completely barefoot. I've been at it for about 4 months, and will still only run a few miles at a time, and at a very easy pace in VFFs. I see this type of running mainly as an exercise in helping strengthen my feet & lower legs. I do all of the rest of my running in fairly minimalist SHOES. I run in training flats, with a minimal heel wedge. I like Adidas Adizero's, and also have a pair of Saucony Fast Twitch light-weight trainers that I like as well. If you want to go this route, go to your local running store and ask to try on some racing flats or cross country flats. I've you've been running in "regular" running shoes, take your time switching over to flats as well. BTW, my feet & ankles have been MUCH happier running in "less" shoe - but full barefoot or VFF still makes my feet a little achey.... |
| 2010-05-13 9:32 AM in reply to: #2855406 |
Expert 2555 Colorado Springs, Colorado | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) Making a change in running form is a process that can take 6-12 months. It's almost like starting the running process over again from zero. If you weren't already a midfoot striker, then running harder in the VFF was almost certainly going to cause pain. Many people only run a quarter mile the first few times in the VFF if the form is radically different from their normal form. Change and adaptation come slowly. Personally I wouldn't make plans for doing races in the VFF until being able to run the race distances at race pace presented no problems. I made the change to midfoot striking over 7 years ago. It took 6-8 months and I had to deal with very sore calf muscles and Achilles problems during the process. Once my body fully adapted the problems went away, but there was a couple months of dealing with serious pain during the process. Since I now run using this from, when I started using the VFF this year I had no issues. I generally use them once a week or so as a tool to help with form issues. I've gone a bit over 8 miles with no problems and could go longer as well. To me, they don't seem like a good choice for a triathlon because they aren't as easy to put on as a normal, minimal racing flat. I could see using them for a standalone running race though - and I have. |
| 2010-05-13 10:33 AM in reply to: #2855406 |
Expert 1121 Chicago | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) If you are inclined, check out my logs beginning in January. There is about one VFF run per week, and you'll see how I gradually ramped up mileage. 5 mile straight not a problem. |
| 2010-05-13 11:35 AM in reply to: #2855623 |
Regular 122 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) jsnowash - 2010-05-13 7:05 AM Gumwars - 2010-05-12 11:17 PM Hello all, So, if I'm reading this correctly, you went out and ran 2 miles at a fast pace in VFF's and got hurt. Was this your FIRST run in the VFF's? If so -- BAD idea.... As others have said, you really need to take your time. And it's not for everyone. I've been incorporating some barefoot/VFF runs into my overall training, but I don' think I see myself going completely barefoot. I've been at it for about 4 months, and will still only run a few miles at a time, and at a very easy pace in VFFs. I see this type of running mainly as an exercise in helping strengthen my feet & lower legs. I do all of the rest of my running in fairly minimalist SHOES. I run in training flats, with a minimal heel wedge. I like Adidas Adizero's, and also have a pair of Saucony Fast Twitch light-weight trainers that I like as well. If you want to go this route, go to your local running store and ask to try on some racing flats or cross country flats. I've you've been running in "regular" running shoes, take your time switching over to flats as well. BTW, my feet & ankles have been MUCH happier running in "less" shoe - but full barefoot or VFF still makes my feet a little achey.... I'll be participating in the 2010 Long Beach Sprint and the Tinman in San Bernardino. My plan is to complete the run for both in minimalist footwear. I've read Born to Run and I am currently reading Running Faster and Injury Free, by Gordon Pirie. The fundamentals contained in both struck a powerful chord with me and I can't shake the logic presented by the authors of both books. Running without the Nike style heel strike seems to be a much more efficient method of locomotion. It also seems to be a gateway to running without the injuries associated with the heel strike. Here's my problem: My feet and lower extremities are not accustomed to running without the big wedge of cushion provided by modern shoes. I put down two miles last week, at a good pace (8 min mile), in my Vibrams and managed to hurt myself pretty good. My left foot doesn't seem to want to land the same way my right does. My right lands fine and recoils very well. My left lands sort of flat and without spring. My question: Has anyone trained barefoot, or with minimalist footwear, for 5k distances (or greater). If so, how did you go about breaking into it and what advice could you share? Thanks in advance. I thought I'd come in and clarify some stuff. I'm his wife & training partner. This was not his first time running in his KSOs. He has been running in them exclusively for about a month. Yes, he did push his pace on this last run. Thanks everyone for the advice thus far. It's helping me too. As I have recently started barefoot running. |
| 2010-05-13 1:44 PM in reply to: #2855406 |
Science Nerd 28760 Redwood City, California | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) I just started wearing my VFFs. I'm hoping to be able to run in them eventually, but for now, I just try to walk in them an hour or two every day. It is a very slow transition. I wore them too much over the weekend and hurt my foot and ankle. Like someone else, I was sure I'd given myself a stress fracture, but it feels a lot better after wearing normal shoes again. It sounds like this race is too soon to really be doing it in the Vibrams. Take it easy, build up slowly, and you will be a lot better off. |
| 2010-05-13 2:01 PM in reply to: #2855406 |
Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) I started running in VFF's and barefoot aroound the first of the year. I did notice a change in my stride and would have some soreness with my hip flexors after. I did start out gradually like everyone else had mentioned. I'm still not sold on the VFF's though. A couple weeks ago I decided to take my first longer run with them and ran a rocky trail near my work. I was out for about 80-minutes. Since my PF has kicked up again to the point where I am not running again. I'm not certain that it's from running from the VFF's as I first developed PF over 5-years aog. But for some reason I think there is a connection and now wish I would have run in my trail shoes. Point is, our feet are accustomed to running shoes and the VFF's will take a while for our feet to adapt to. So like others are recommending...ease into it. with that said, I do have a friend that is 100% barefoot or VFF's. He's been running barefoot for about 2-years and says he will never go back to shoes. So it's not just a fad to him. One question I have is why would you want to go through the trouble of putting on the VFF's in a sprint tri when you still use running shoes as well? I always have trouble getting my toes lined up in the fingers. For me it would save a good chunk of time to just throw on the running shoes. |
| 2010-05-13 3:31 PM in reply to: #2855406 |
| 244 | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) On the VFF site, it says that it can take up to a year to switch over. I know I run in a stability shoe and the suggested course was to move down to a neutral shoe, then something like the Frees and then Vibrams. All this very slowly over many,many months. I haven't decided if I want to take the leap, but I plan on getting VFF for weight training and maybe walking. I'm happy with the way I run now and don't see a reason to change it up. I like the idea of walking in VFF just to use some lesser used muscles but I doubt I'll ever use them as a primary running shoe. |
| 2010-05-13 6:15 PM in reply to: #2855406 |
| New user 15 | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) I'm a member at this barefoot running site (http://groups.google.com/group/huaraches/topics) and I agree with all the great advice given here: I pushed too hard, too soon. I think some of my problem stems from the sort of funky stigma that hovers around the BF crowd. I haven't seen too many running programs that fully endorse minimalist footwear (nod to Running Evolution) and as a result not too much guidance is available. Its sort of a go as you feel, not too much, loosey goosey sort of approach that my ex-military mind has a hard time accepting. I know my level of cardio conditioning is up to the task; its all the myriad assortment of ligaments and muscle in my feet that haven't adapted to the action. The sort of odd thing is that the pain I'm having (which is a bit of swelling on the inboard side of my left ankle and some nagging ache) doesn't happen when I trail run, barefoot or shod. Either way, I'm stepping back for a bit and going to go at this much slower. I figured 6 months was enough time for the Sprint in Long Beach but if it doesn't happen, so be it. I'll run in my old New Balances. Edited by Gumwars 2010-05-13 6:16 PM |
| 2010-05-13 7:01 PM in reply to: #2855406 |
| 63 | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) our local running store (quite a good one) has become big proponants of minimalist running. They suggested to my husband and I to go a minimalist shoe. Kind of like a flat (I am in the asics speedstar and LOVE them) I was also changing to a midfoot running pattern. Let me just say, the first run was 10 miles and I had locked up calves for a week. I am so lucky I didn't tear anything! I kept at it and finally after 2 months of not being able to walk for days after runs without looking like frankenstein I decided to keep the midfoot strike for smaller runs and maybe portions of my long runs. So I can only imagine how slow you would have to work up with VFF's! Even when I go back to my heel strike, my form is MUCH better and I tend to land with my feet underneath me as the pp mentioned. I used to lean back a ton. I don't think I care to go full barefoot, at least not at this time, and I have learned to make any changes in the fall, after my race season! but I can totally see how doing the barefoot or minimalist on shorter runs is good for form! |
| 2010-05-13 7:40 PM in reply to: #2855406 |
| Expert 618 | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) <Sigh> I guess I'm just destined to never understand people. Luckily none of the people I've coached have bandwagoned yet. More power to you all. |
| 2010-05-13 7:46 PM in reply to: #2855406 |
Extreme Veteran 633 The Redlands, QLD, Australia | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) My question: Has anyone trained barefoot, or with minimalist footwear, for 5k distances (or greater). If so, how did you go about breaking into it and what advice could you share? Thanks in advance. I ran barefoot on the beach about 3 years ago thinking I was all Australian in front of my sister (I'm English living in Aus) and got plantar fasciitus in my right foot that was so painful when I ran that I couldnt train for a couple of months. So my advice would be don't do it. Derek |
| 2010-05-13 9:41 PM in reply to: #2857829 |
| New user 15 | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) <Sigh> I guess I'm just destined to never understand people. Luckily none of the people I've coached have bandwagoned yet. Road Phoenix, this isn't a thread about the philosophical/logistical/metaphysical rightness or wrongness of running barefoot. If you disagree, that's fine. Start a thread and illuminate the blogosphere with your opinion regarding minimalist/barefoot running lunacy. I will continue to entertain my opinion and belief that it is a more natural method of locomotion. See you at the races! FWIW, to all that have had bad experiences with this style of running, my condolences. This thread isn't about whether it is or isn't a good idea. Edited by Gumwars 2010-05-13 9:45 PM |
| 2010-05-13 9:47 PM in reply to: #2857839 |
Regular 122 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) pipsyboy - 2010-05-13 7:46 PM My question: Has anyone trained barefoot, or with minimalist footwear, for 5k distances (or greater). If so, how did you go about breaking into it and what advice could you share? Thanks in advance. I ran barefoot on the beach about 3 years ago thinking I was all Australian in front of my sister (I'm English living in Aus) and got plantar fasciitus in my right foot that was so painful when I ran that I couldnt train for a couple of months. So my advice would be don't do it. Derek Derek, There's another BF thread in this forum. Where one guy is mentioned & he's got a picture of it too. I can't remember the thread or the person's name. |
| 2010-05-14 12:23 AM in reply to: #2857989 |
Extreme Veteran 633 The Redlands, QLD, Australia | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) Derek, There's another BF thread in this forum. Where one guy is mentioned & he's got a picture of it too. I can't remember the thread or the person's name. tHANKS MATE, THAT WAS A GREAT HELP, LOL. wAS IT THE GUY IN THE ROMAN SANDALS? |
| 2010-05-14 2:06 AM in reply to: #2858117 |
| New user 15 | Subject: RE: Planning to run my first Sprint...in VFFs (with problems) That was a pretty...umm...unidirectional post. I recall the discussion too but couldn't find it. I did find a brief chat about using VFF's in triathlons (specifically the problems in putting them on during transition). http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=202958&posts=4&start=1 |
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