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Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4
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 2010-06-28 9:06 PM |
Regular  93 |  Subject: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4Just wondering if anyone has had the chance to see the new Trek Speed concept in person or if they have even taken one for a spin. Any thoughts and or Ideas about it? I am looking at buying a new bike and its between the P3 (since the P4 is virtually impossible to get right now) and the Speed Concept. Anyone have any doubts about where they P3 is headed or will it be around for a while? |
| 2010-06-28 9:13 PM in reply to: #2949691 |
 South Florida | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 7 or 9 Series? Both are bad a$$. I am holding out until they come my LBS has them. (Saving for a wedding and a new tri bike both cant happen) One cool thing i like about the SC is that the cadence/speed sensor is integrated in the rear arm. So no more zip ties. From what i've heard is just a sick bike. I can't wait to get my hands on one |
| 2010-06-28 9:14 PM in reply to: #2949691 |
Extreme Veteran 547 Canyon Hills (Lake Elsinore), CA | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 The P3 is a bitchin bike and if it fits you wel and you are fast on itl do you really care if "it will be around for a while?" The speed Concept is also an uber bike in my opinion. Buy what you like and what fits. I don't know if stack/reach are equivalent so no opinion on that. |
| 2010-06-28 9:21 PM in reply to: #2949691 |
Elite 3315   Miami | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 if you are looking at a new tt i would say first you have to determine which level bike you want to get. p4, shiv, oclv...can be had for similar price setups (p4 is probably cheapest compared to the other 2) p3 is a little lower priced compared to those 3....next the OCLV is not going to be easy to get either. thrid which oclv would you get the 9 series or the 7 series? i think for the average rider (non-pro) the 7 series is a better deal, identical design and frame aero minus the headtube/front fork design. the 9 series is a little harder to adjust and you have to use the bontranger aero bar it comes with. where as the series 7 allows for customization. i think the cervelo frames will eventually go under overhaul. i think its still an amazing frame. |
| 2010-06-28 10:12 PM in reply to: #2949691 |
Master 1610 Kirkland, WA | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 I saw the speed concept at the IM CDA expo - with the carbon bontrager race wheels. . they said cost was about $9k. . . They do have some really sweet integrated brakes though. |
| 2010-06-28 10:13 PM in reply to: #2949691 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 Nothing beats the value of a Cervelo; for the price point they are the only manufacturers that do not skimp on the group sets and they have decent wheels. If price isn't an issue, I really think it comes down to fit. The most important thing about tri bikes is finding one you can be aero in for the longest time. |
| 2010-06-28 10:20 PM in reply to: #2949834 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 ultrahip_00 - 2010-06-28 10:12 PM I saw the speed concept at the IM CDA expo - with the carbon bontrager race wheels. . they said cost was about $9k. . . They do have some really sweet integrated brakes though. there are different kinds of the speedconcept....10k is the series 9.9...but there are others. you can have a speedconcept with 105 components for 2.5k... |
| 2010-06-29 10:38 AM in reply to: #2949836 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 furiousferret - 2010-06-28 11:13 PM Nothing beats the value of a Cervelo; for the price point they are the only manufacturers that do not skimp on the group sets and they have decent wheels. If price isn't an issue, I really think it comes down to fit. The most important thing about tri bikes is finding one you can be aero in for the longest time. I'm a cervelo owner, but disagree with you about grupset skimping and wheels. Not enough that I still didn't feel it was the best overall bike in my budget, but the "ultegra" bike does not have a full ultegra groupset. And those brakes!!! The wheels are my biggest gripe, however. I'd rather it be a little cheaper and pick my own wheels. |
| 2010-06-29 10:50 AM in reply to: #2949720 |
| Veteran 191 | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 trix - 2010-06-28 9:21 PM if you are looking at a new tt i would say first you have to determine which level bike you want to get. p4, shiv, oclv...can be had for similar price setups (p4 is probably cheapest compared to the other 2) p3 is a little lower priced compared to those 3....next the OCLV is not going to be easy to get either. thrid which oclv would you get the 9 series or the 7 series? i think for the average rider (non-pro) the 7 series is a better deal, identical design and frame aero minus the headtube/front fork design. the 9 series is a little harder to adjust and you have to use the bontranger aero bar it comes with. where as the series 7 allows for customization. i think the cervelo frames will eventually go under overhaul. i think its still an amazing frame. I disagree with you. Not only because I now own one, but the Shiv is going to be the cheapest to build as it comes with about 80% of the components (All you need is saddle, chain, front and rear d, shifters wheels and you are done. The others will require crank, aero bars brakes, brake levers and cables). |
| 2010-06-29 10:52 AM in reply to: #2949691 |
| 94 | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 I have a buddy that owns a bike shop that sells Felt and Trek. I got a chance to look at the DA and the Speed Concept 9.9. Both are wicked awesome. The Speed concept claims to be the fastest triathlon bike in the world and the DA claims to be the fasted TT bike. I didn’t know there was a difference. I don’t know much about Carvel but if you are going top end I would say all of the major players are going to be similar. But if you go lower end I know that Felt is the only one that keeps the same aero dynamics on the frame all the way through its line and the special Bayonet steering system down to the B2. They just change material and components as you get cheaper. |
| 2010-06-29 10:59 AM in reply to: #2949836 |
Champion 6503 NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 furiousferret - 2010-06-28 10:13 PM Nothing beats the value of a Cervelo; for the price point they are the only manufacturers that do not skimp on the group sets and they have decent wheels. If price isn't an issue, I really think it comes down to fit. The most important thing about tri bikes is finding one you can be aero in for the longest time. Actually, I would say that this describes Felt more closely. Felt's comparable bikes still come with very usable 40 mm aero wheels and nice components. Cervelo often puts bikes out with cheap wheels and components. $700 for wheels and all components? Edited by pga_mike 2010-06-29 11:02 AM |
| 2010-06-29 11:13 AM in reply to: #2949691 |
Extreme Veteran 465 Atlanta, GA | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 Get a bike that you are comfortable on and one that you are able to stay in the aero position the most on. When I bought my bike, I was pretty set on getting a P3 and I had the money for it. My fitter was the one that talked me into getting a P2. He said that the P3 was just too aggressive of a frame. I went with the P2 and am very happy with it. Took the money I saved and am going to get a set of wheels. So bottom line, if the bike doesn't fit, and you have to do something like this to make it work, the most aero frame in the world won't help. Side note, a local store here has a Speed Concept and it is a beautiful bike. Edited by scottyr7 2010-06-29 11:14 AM |
| 2010-06-29 11:18 AM in reply to: #2949691 |
Elite 3515 Romeoville, Il | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 fyi, the Cervelo P4's are now becoming available. Cervelo is sending frames out and asking LBS's to build the bikes getting components on their own. So shops will should be more willing to mix and match what you want. For example, I got a vision and stem set up and mavic kyserium elite wheelset as opposed to Easton Circuit wheels and 3t bars and stem. IMO the Mavic's are a much more solid wheel for my everyday training and the vision setup fit me better. The LBS still charged me the same price as the P4 SRAM red package bike they offered from Cervelo. Appearently, Cervelo must be compensating them to build the bikes and be able to offer the component packages so they don't have to charge for a custom build. |
| 2010-06-29 12:29 PM in reply to: #2950638 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 tnc615 - 2010-06-29 10:50 AM trix - 2010-06-28 9:21 PM if you are looking at a new tt i would say first you have to determine which level bike you want to get. p4, shiv, oclv...can be had for similar price setups (p4 is probably cheapest compared to the other 2) p3 is a little lower priced compared to those 3....next the OCLV is not going to be easy to get either. thrid which oclv would you get the 9 series or the 7 series? i think for the average rider (non-pro) the 7 series is a better deal, identical design and frame aero minus the headtube/front fork design. the 9 series is a little harder to adjust and you have to use the bontranger aero bar it comes with. where as the series 7 allows for customization. i think the cervelo frames will eventually go under overhaul. i think its still an amazing frame. I disagree with you. Not only because I now own one, but the Shiv is going to be the cheapest to build as it comes with about 80% of the components (All you need is saddle, chain, front and rear d, shifters wheels and you are done. The others will require crank, aero bars brakes, brake levers and cables). well from what i have seen the frameset for the p4 is 4600 vs shiv 5500...ultegra p4 runs about 6.1k i can only imagine shiv must start at more... maybe i am mistekn but i was on the specialized site about 2-3 weeks ago. as far the speedconcept it depends on which one you get, the 9.8 is still reasonable at 5.7k. |
| 2010-06-29 12:35 PM in reply to: #2950665 |
| New user 101 | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 pga_mike - 2010-06-29 10:59 AM furiousferret - 2010-06-28 10:13 PM Nothing beats the value of a Cervelo; for the price point they are the only manufacturers that do not skimp on the group sets and they have decent wheels. If price isn't an issue, I really think it comes down to fit. The most important thing about tri bikes is finding one you can be aero in for the longest time. Actually, I would say that this describes Felt more closely. Felt's comparable bikes still come with very usable 40 mm aero wheels and nice components. Cervelo often puts bikes out with cheap wheels and components. $700 for wheels and all components? Agreed. People seem to have heard Cervelo has the best bang for the buck for so long that it's just repeated. If you really do a comparison today, you'll see that just isn't the case. Felt's 2011 line up of B12, B14 and B16 beats Cervelo's P2 offerings all the way around. Frame material and components. For 2011, Felt has rolled their Ultra HM Carbon down from the B2 line into this B1x line. Additionally, the B16, with Ultegra comes in around $1999. The B14 with Dura Ace comes in around $2700 and the B12 with full on SRAM Red, $3400. All bikes come with a better wheel set than Cervelo. For less than a P2 with Ultegra, you can get the B16 with Ultegra and it comes with better wheels and arguably better frame material with as good, if not slightly better, aerodynamics. Don't get me wrong. Cervelo makes some very good bikes and they are proven. But right now, for the money, Felt's winning the price point war. |
| 2010-06-29 1:50 PM in reply to: #2950882 |
| Veteran 191 | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 trix - 2010-06-29 12:29 PM tnc615 - 2010-06-29 10:50 AM trix - 2010-06-28 9:21 PM if you are looking at a new tt i would say first you have to determine which level bike you want to get. p4, shiv, oclv...can be had for similar price setups (p4 is probably cheapest compared to the other 2) p3 is a little lower priced compared to those 3....next the OCLV is not going to be easy to get either. thrid which oclv would you get the 9 series or the 7 series? i think for the average rider (non-pro) the 7 series is a better deal, identical design and frame aero minus the headtube/front fork design. the 9 series is a little harder to adjust and you have to use the bontranger aero bar it comes with. where as the series 7 allows for customization. i think the cervelo frames will eventually go under overhaul. i think its still an amazing frame. I disagree with you. Not only because I now own one, but the Shiv is going to be the cheapest to build as it comes with about 80% of the components (All you need is saddle, chain, front and rear d, shifters wheels and you are done. The others will require crank, aero bars brakes, brake levers and cables). well from what i have seen the frameset for the p4 is 4600 vs shiv 5500...ultegra p4 runs about 6.1k i can only imagine shiv must start at more... maybe i am mistekn but i was on the specialized site about 2-3 weeks ago. as far the speedconcept it depends on which one you get, the 9.8 is still reasonable at 5.7k. Assuming that you are paying full MSRP I see your point. I didn’t pay anywhere near MSRP so for me the Shiv was a heck of a deal. |
| 2010-06-29 2:22 PM in reply to: #2951120 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 tnc615 - 2010-06-29 1:50 PM trix - 2010-06-29 12:29 PM tnc615 - 2010-06-29 10:50 AM trix - 2010-06-28 9:21 PM if you are looking at a new tt i would say first you have to determine which level bike you want to get. p4, shiv, oclv...can be had for similar price setups (p4 is probably cheapest compared to the other 2) p3 is a little lower priced compared to those 3....next the OCLV is not going to be easy to get either. thrid which oclv would you get the 9 series or the 7 series? i think for the average rider (non-pro) the 7 series is a better deal, identical design and frame aero minus the headtube/front fork design. the 9 series is a little harder to adjust and you have to use the bontranger aero bar it comes with. where as the series 7 allows for customization. i think the cervelo frames will eventually go under overhaul. i think its still an amazing frame. I disagree with you. Not only because I now own one, but the Shiv is going to be the cheapest to build as it comes with about 80% of the components (All you need is saddle, chain, front and rear d, shifters wheels and you are done. The others will require crank, aero bars brakes, brake levers and cables). well from what i have seen the frameset for the p4 is 4600 vs shiv 5500...ultegra p4 runs about 6.1k i can only imagine shiv must start at more... maybe i am mistekn but i was on the specialized site about 2-3 weeks ago. as far the speedconcept it depends on which one you get, the 9.8 is still reasonable at 5.7k. Assuming that you are paying full MSRP I see your point. I didn’t pay anywhere near MSRP so for me the Shiv was a heck of a deal. yeah i was going off of MSRP....if you can get a better deal on the shiv i would jump on it also. its a nice bike. great aero dynamics. |
| 2010-06-29 2:23 PM in reply to: #2951120 |
Champion 7136 Knoxville area | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 tnc615 - 2010-06-29 2:50 PM trix - 2010-06-29 12:29 PM tnc615 - 2010-06-29 10:50 AM trix - 2010-06-28 9:21 PM if you are looking at a new tt i would say first you have to determine which level bike you want to get. p4, shiv, oclv...can be had for similar price setups (p4 is probably cheapest compared to the other 2) p3 is a little lower priced compared to those 3....next the OCLV is not going to be easy to get either. thrid which oclv would you get the 9 series or the 7 series? i think for the average rider (non-pro) the 7 series is a better deal, identical design and frame aero minus the headtube/front fork design. the 9 series is a little harder to adjust and you have to use the bontranger aero bar it comes with. where as the series 7 allows for customization. i think the cervelo frames will eventually go under overhaul. i think its still an amazing frame. I disagree with you. Not only because I now own one, but the Shiv is going to be the cheapest to build as it comes with about 80% of the components (All you need is saddle, chain, front and rear d, shifters wheels and you are done. The others will require crank, aero bars brakes, brake levers and cables). well from what i have seen the frameset for the p4 is 4600 vs shiv 5500...ultegra p4 runs about 6.1k i can only imagine shiv must start at more... maybe i am mistekn but i was on the specialized site about 2-3 weeks ago. as far the speedconcept it depends on which one you get, the 9.8 is still reasonable at 5.7k. Assuming that you are paying full MSRP I see your point. I didn’t pay anywhere near MSRP so for me the Shiv was a heck of a deal. pictures... this thread is going nowhere without PICTURES |
| 2010-06-29 3:52 PM in reply to: #2949691 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 here is the shiv: (shiv.JPG) (fabian_Cancellara_Specialized_Shiv_time_trial_bike_side_view_2009.jpg) Attachments ---------------- shiv.JPG (49KB - 15 downloads) fabian_Cancellara_Specialized_Shiv_time_trial_bike_side_view_2009.jpg (30KB - 19 downloads) |
| 2010-06-29 10:01 PM in reply to: #2949691 |
Extreme Veteran 620 Illinois | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 I am a huge fan of Blue. Really nice bikes are very nice prices. My LBS has Cervelo, Scott, and Blue and the triad is very thin like the P3C and has the really nice rear end similar to the Scott Plasma 2. For me the Blue Triad is smooth, fast, and stiff. I can ride this beast with no spacers which is really important to me. This build up is around $4500 retail and I am sure if you buy from the same store they can cut you a few deals. (IMG_1175-1.JPG) Attachments ---------------- IMG_1175-1.JPG (93KB - 23 downloads) |
| 2010-06-30 8:50 AM in reply to: #2949691 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 I stand corrected then, they do a good job of sounding like the best bang for the buck! |
| 2010-06-30 9:25 AM in reply to: #2950665 |
Elite 2768 Raleigh | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 pga_mike - 2010-06-29 10:59 AM furiousferret - 2010-06-28 10:13 PM Nothing beats the value of a Cervelo; for the price point they are the only manufacturers that do not skimp on the group sets and they have decent wheels. If price isn't an issue, I really think it comes down to fit. The most important thing about tri bikes is finding one you can be aero in for the longest time. Actually, I would say that this describes Felt more closely. Felt's comparable bikes still come with very usable 40 mm aero wheels and nice components. Cervelo often puts bikes out with cheap wheels and components. $700 for wheels and all components? I disagree with this statement... plus you are comparing price points of 2 totally different bikes (the B12 and the PC3). The Felt DA would be a better comparison since both bike (the DA and the PC3) would be the flagship bikes of both companies. The DA will cost you about $3,000 more than the PC3 speced out. So looking at the top bikes for both brands, the PC3 is clearly the better deal... Also when you look at the amount of money and time Cervelo spends in the wind tunnel, most bikes are modelled after the PC3 anyway... |
| 2010-06-30 9:53 AM in reply to: #2952814 |
| New user 101 | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 trigods - 2010-06-30 9:25 AM pga_mike - 2010-06-29 10:59 AM furiousferret - 2010-06-28 10:13 PM Nothing beats the value of a Cervelo; for the price point they are the only manufacturers that do not skimp on the group sets and they have decent wheels. If price isn't an issue, I really think it comes down to fit. The most important thing about tri bikes is finding one you can be aero in for the longest time. Actually, I would say that this describes Felt more closely. Felt's comparable bikes still come with very usable 40 mm aero wheels and nice components. Cervelo often puts bikes out with cheap wheels and components. $700 for wheels and all components? I disagree with this statement... plus you are comparing price points of 2 totally different bikes (the B12 and the PC3). The Felt DA would be a better comparison since both bike (the DA and the PC3) would be the flagship bikes of both companies. The DA will cost you about $3,000 more than the PC3 speced out. So looking at the top bikes for both brands, the PC3 is clearly the better deal... Also when you look at the amount of money and time Cervelo spends in the wind tunnel, most bikes are modelled after the PC3 anyway... Not to split hairs, but the P4 is Cervelo's flag ship. That would compare to the DA. The P3 to the B2. The B12 is actually in an in between area that Cervelo does not have. The B14 compares to the Cervelo P2 Dura Ace and the B16 compares to the P2 Ultegra. For 2011, the Felt clearly wins out. Same or better specs at a lower price point. Another note, Felt's in house TTR series wheels are better wheels than those spec'd on the Cervelos. They are about as bomb proof as you're going to get and the actually have some aero properties to them. I would not race them but they make great training wheels. And you get them on the bikes at the same or better price point than what Cervelo is offering. Again, I don't think anyone is arguing that Felt is a better bike than Cervelo. Personally, I think performance wise, they are on par with each other. But Felt is offering the same performance with better specs from a stock wheel and components perspective. |
| 2010-06-30 10:21 AM in reply to: #2949691 |
Elite 2768 Raleigh | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 tru dat...
I forgot about the P4... because you hardly ever see them...
sorry for the mess up |
| 2010-06-30 10:30 AM in reply to: #2952980 |
Elite 3315 Miami | Subject: RE: Speed Concept Vs. P3 and P4 trigods - 2010-06-30 10:21 AM tru dat...
I forgot about the P4... because you hardly ever see them...
sorry for the mess up depends where you race i guess....in miami, i have seen some sick bikes. p4's at local sprint, 10k scott plasma setup. I am not talking about 1...but several. the blue bikes seem like a good deal.....BUT do they have the aerodynamics to back them up. |
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