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Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast..
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 2010-12-15 10:51 AM |
Champion  9600     Fountain Hills, AZ |  Subject: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast..Love him or hate him, the man speaks his mind! If you want to hear every training sacred cow of the past 10 years slaughtered, have a listen. Forefoot running, T.I., periodization, high cadence cycling all take a major hit and I found his comments very refreshing. This is the first part of a two part interview. http://www.imtalk.me/ |
| 2010-12-15 10:58 AM in reply to: #3249712 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. I like that he speaks his mind and is willing to question trends (sacred or otherwise). I wouldn't necessarily take what he says as gospel truth either... He's had a lot of success, and that's hard to argue with. On the other hand, a lot of his athletes end up injured. Maybe that's just the nature of training at that level. Maybe it's how he trains his athletes. I don't know. |
| 2010-12-15 11:26 AM in reply to: #3249712 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. bryancd - 2010-12-15 11:51 AM Love him or hate him, the man speaks his mind! If you want to hear every training sacred cow of the past 10 years slaughtered, have a listen. Forefoot running, T.I., periodization, high cadence cycling all take a major hit and I found his comments very refreshing. This is the first part of a two part interview. http://www.imtalk.me/ Haven't listened, but I'm not sure I'd consider any of those "sacred cows". I do think he speaks his mind. And that, probably more than anything he actually says about training, helps explain his success as a coach. You don't want your athletes at that level to be questioning the why's and what others are doing that they're not. You want them to execute and have confidence in their trianig so that on race day they will do the same. I'm fairly ambivalent about BS, in general--no love or hate. From what (admittedly little) I do know, I'd be cautious about ever letting one of my daughters train under him. But that's about it. Edited by JohnnyKay 2010-12-15 11:26 AM |
| 2010-12-15 11:30 AM in reply to: #3249712 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. Take a listen, JK, it's very good...or at least very interesting depending on your point of view. |
| 2010-12-15 11:30 AM in reply to: #3249712 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. |
| 2010-12-15 11:35 AM in reply to: #3249792 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. bryancd - 2010-12-15 12:30 PM Take a listen, JK, it's very good...or at least very interesting depending on your point of view. Maybe at some point. I'm reasonably familiar with some of his ideas and methods, though. And how he speaks directly. |
| 2010-12-15 1:01 PM in reply to: #3249781 |
Champion 7595 Columbia, South Carolina | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. JohnnyKay - 2010-12-15 12:26 PM I'm fairly ambivalent about BS, in general--no love or hate. From what (admittedly little) I do know, I'd be cautious about ever letting one of my daughters train under him. But that's about it. Not to highjack, but I'd be more than cautious, as in 'over my dead body'. I agree with Bryan that the interview is interesting. Edited by Experior 2010-12-15 1:01 PM |
| 2010-12-15 1:33 PM in reply to: #3249781 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. JohnnyKay - 2010-12-15 11:26 AM bryancd - 2010-12-15 11:51 AM Love him or hate him, the man speaks his mind! If you want to hear every training sacred cow of the past 10 years slaughtered, have a listen. Forefoot running, T.I., periodization, high cadence cycling all take a major hit and I found his comments very refreshing. This is the first part of a two part interview. http://www.imtalk.me/ Haven't listened, but I'm not sure I'd consider any of those "sacred cows". I do think he speaks his mind. And that, probably more than anything he actually says about training, helps explain his success as a coach. You don't want your athletes at that level to be questioning the why's and what others are doing that they're not. You want them to execute and have confidence in their trianig so that on race day they will do the same. I'm fairly ambivalent about BS, in general--no love or hate. From what (admittedly little) I do know, I'd be cautious about ever letting one of my daughters train under him. But that's about it. Start a thread badmouthing TI and see what follows. Let me know when you do though, cause I want to watch! |
| 2010-12-15 1:36 PM in reply to: #3249989 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. tjfry - 2010-12-15 12:33 PM Start a thread badmouthing TI and see what follows. Let me know when you do though, cause I want to watch! Or forefoot/POSE running, or Power meters for that matter (runs...ducks for cover)!  TJ, how do you like his triathlete swim tarining protocol!. Straight arm pull, single side breathing, and no drills, jsut swim 20x200 everyday! Sweet! Edited by bryancd 2010-12-15 1:38 PM |
| 2010-12-15 1:43 PM in reply to: #3249712 |
Master 1927 Guilford, CT | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. I appreciate his candor. Some of his comments in the TTB forum are funny. I'm not sure the Marc Becker originated Ironguide approach is a true offshoot of BS approaches or not but my coach trains that way and some of it seems to line up with what I hear his viewpoints are (not sure how much is true or derived). This was in the ST thread so figured I'd repost her...entertaining view of an athlete who has been in the game awhile and trained under him for a short period: http://www.conradstoltz.com/champions-training-different-strokes-for-different-folks/ |
| 2010-12-15 1:46 PM in reply to: #3249712 |
Expert 829 | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. "I have no doubts in my mind, and that's the only mind I have to worry about..." love it. |
| 2010-12-15 2:01 PM in reply to: #3249989 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. Start a thread badmouthing TI and see what follows. Let me know when you do though, cause I want to watch! I guess maybe the fact that there are so many people (present company included) that slaughter many of those already that I don't consider them "sacred". But you're absolutely right on the reaction you'd get, so maybe I'm just biased in that I agree with many of Brett's (general) opinions already. |
| 2010-12-15 2:03 PM in reply to: #3250027 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. JohnnyKay - 2010-12-15 1:01 PM Start a thread badmouthing TI and see what follows. Let me know when you do though, cause I want to watch! I guess maybe the fact that there are so many people (present company included) that slaughter many of those already that I don't consider them "sacred". But you're absolutely right on the reaction you'd get, so maybe I'm just biased in that I agree with many of Brett's (general) opinions already. You would, JK. We can debate his merrits as a coach and his past criminal record doesn't help, but I was laughing my a@# off when he referred to TI as "total sh#t"! Hyperbole, sure, but funny non the less. Edited by bryancd 2010-12-15 2:03 PM |
| 2010-12-15 2:04 PM in reply to: #3249996 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. bryancd - 2010-12-15 2:36 PM TJ, how do you like his triathlete swim tarining protocol!. Straight arm pull, single side breathing, and no drills, jsut swim 20x200 everyday! Sweet! There's another one that I mostly agree with. It would be better than most triathletes' swim plans. And since they would have far fewer things to think about, probably FAR better! |
| 2010-12-15 2:09 PM in reply to: #3249712 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. He said something along the lines of he see's athletes Ironman swim training which is 15min WU, some kick sets, a few drills, and then a main set of 4x100 and he's like WTF?! ROTFLMAO!!! These people kill themselves to swim 2.4 miles and then wonder why the first 30K of their bike legs stinks! |
| 2010-12-15 6:05 PM in reply to: #3249712 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. Listened to most of it while I was working today. Pretty good stuff. I think I would say his philosophy is one part the 1970's, one part Rocky movies, and one part Donald Trump's ego. It is refreshing though. There is alot of truth (IMO) in what he says. That TI stuff was classic. "Total rubbish but Terry is getting rich"(paraphrase). hahahahha! While I wouldn't put every swimmer into his bucket there's a lot of truth to just getting in and swimming. IMO, 20,000 yards per week would fix 99% of the problems here on BT. Then we could discuss the remaining 1% and save the world. His other swim comments (straight arm pull, etc) are out in left field. He should keep his tri job. Some of his other comments I find a little bizarre. But that's the fun. Looking forward to listening to the rest tomorrow. On a side note, did anyone have trouble understanding the 2 other guys in the first 30 minutes? It was like I was trying to translate on a number of occasions. Good Stuff! And to an earlier point, if he even suggested coaching my daughter he would be greeted with the business end of my golf club. |
| 2010-12-15 6:14 PM in reply to: #3249712 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. I have been listening to this show since 2006 and spent 2 weeks in New Zealand, so I understand Kiwi.  I think the best takeaway for an AG'er listening is that sometimes, don't listen to all the noise and just go do the work. I don't count pedal turns or distance per stroke and I don't give a rats butt what part of my foot touches the ground first, I just train everyday, 365. Edited by bryancd 2010-12-15 6:16 PM |
| 2010-12-15 7:29 PM in reply to: #3250275 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. bryancd - 2010-12-15 6:14 PM I have been listening to this show since 2006 and spent 2 weeks in New Zealand, so I understand Kiwi. I think the best takeaway for an AG'er listening is that sometimes, don't listen to all the noise and just go do the work. I don't count pedal turns or distance per stroke and I don't give a rats butt what part of my foot touches the ground first, I just train everyday, 365.Amen brotha. |
| 2010-12-16 7:30 AM in reply to: #3250275 |
Master 1420 Reston, VA | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. bryancd - 2010-12-15 7:14 PM I have been listening to this show since 2006 and spent 2 weeks in New Zealand, so I understand Kiwi. I think the best takeaway for an AG'er listening is that sometimes, don't listen to all the noise and just go do the work. I don't count pedal turns or distance per stroke and I don't give a rats butt what part of my foot touches the ground first, I just train everyday, 365. Very well said. The only thing I would add is you train hard. Want to get fast at triathlon - be consistent and train hard. Run often, bike hard and swim hard with the proper technique. |
| 2010-12-16 7:39 AM in reply to: #3250275 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. bryancd - 2010-12-15 7:14 PM I think the best takeaway for an AG'er listening is that sometimes, don't listen to all the noise and just go do the work. I don't count pedal turns or distance per stroke and I don't give a rats butt what part of my foot touches the ground first, I just train everyday, 365. But, but, but, but... |
| 2010-12-16 1:00 PM in reply to: #3249712 |
Extreme Veteran 662 Sunny San Diego | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. I like how he says that Triathlon is an aerobic sport (especially IM) and doesn't think you should be doing 4+ anaerobic workouts a week. Build up to a goal volume and hold that for the whole year. Consistency over intensity. Also, I like when he points out that you should not train as a swimmer + cyclist + runner but rather train as a triathlete. Approach a triathlon as one sport, not 3 individual ones. It's an easy assumption to make that swimming with masters, hammering group rides and doing track workouts is the best way to train for triathlons. Edited by joker70 2010-12-16 1:01 PM |
| 2010-12-16 1:38 PM in reply to: #3251217 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. joker70 - 2010-12-16 2:00 PM It's an easy assumption to make that swimming with masters, hammering group rides and doing track workouts is the best way to train for triathlons. However, IMO, 2 out of 3 of those would be better training plans than many follow. Edit: But it's probably only the 3rd that most people feel they need to incorporate into their trianing. Edited by JohnnyKay 2010-12-16 1:39 PM |
| 2010-12-16 2:06 PM in reply to: #3250614 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. docswim24 - 2010-12-16 8:30 AM bryancd - 2010-12-15 7:14 PM I have been listening to this show since 2006 and spent 2 weeks in New Zealand, so I understand Kiwi. Very well said. The only thing I would add is you train hard. Want to get fast at triathlon - be consistent and train hard. Run often, bike hard and swim hard with the proper technique. I think the best takeaway for an AG'er listening is that sometimes, don't listen to all the noise and just go do the work. I don't count pedal turns or distance per stroke and I don't give a rats butt what part of my foot touches the ground first, I just train everyday, 365.I know JK had his sarcastic but, but, but - but, I'll throw my real one in. Bryan, you don't count the small things, or need to pay as much attention to them all the time, because the sum of all those small things is your ability(=speed), which you happen to have buckets of. So you go out and spend the time focusing on the volume, making some corrections and tweaks along the way, but basically you're all set. Train, and train some more. But to the second part of the quote above - technique does matter. I admittedly don't pay too much attention to detail on the run, but for the bike I'm trying to figure out how to be more aero, and what else will help make me faster. More time on the bike = #1, but I've got to pay attention to the other things that should make me faster. Which brings us to the swim. I was BOP, now I'm MOP, but I struggle with the swim. I could, and have, just gotten in the pool and swam and swam. But what does it do - it builds some endurance, and reinforces my repetition of all the things I do wrong. So at the moment I'm focused on the details, and trying to improve my breathing, my body roll, not let my arm drop so much, etc. etc. The sum of my deficiencies makes me slower, and I need to correct them to get faster. Just swimming won't fix it. I think you're partially right, you've got to just do the work. But, for those of us who haven't gotten it right yet, we have to pay attention to the details and look for improvements. We need to do this in conjucntion with all the work, you can't have one without the other until you've gotten to a point where you can scale back on the details and pay most of your attention to the volume. |
| 2010-12-16 2:16 PM in reply to: #3251324 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. Sure, I don't disagree with that and I was being somewhat flip when I said what i did. Indeed, swimming certainly requires an initial investment and reinvested dividends in working on technique. I think Sutton's point is that to many AG athletes spend too much time doing things in the pool which never allow them to build the kind of plain, simple ENDURANCE needed to complete 2.4 miles in good stead. In regards to the bike, I wouldn't call being considerate of your position on the bike "Technique" per se. He, and I, are referring to the cadence debate and what is optimal. Many AG'ers stress over their pedal count. It's not their pedal count that's holding them back, it's their training volume and protocol. Fianlly, in regards to the run, well, we' have all gone down the rabbitt hole called forefoot running and don't need to rehash that here. There are aspects of technique which can be and are important. I would only suggest that what we are told as AG'ers in print, online, and often from coaches makes something simple far too complicated. I understand why, it drives the industry, but that doesn't always make it right. Edited by bryancd 2010-12-16 2:18 PM |
| 2010-12-16 2:49 PM in reply to: #3249712 |
Expert 2547 The Woodlands, TX | Subject: RE: Brett Sutton interview on IM Talk podcast.. I certainly noticed that everytime he gave an example to prove his point, he used an absolute ringer. Slower cadence..when I slowed down Chrissie's.... Swimming technique...I got (insert national level swimmer and triathlete) to just scrap the technique and get after it. |
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