Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push
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2011-01-27 9:40 AM |
New user 433 | Subject: Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push I'm an average swimmer, 1:40 /100m, and working on fine tuning my stroke. My question is for those swimmers that swim faster then me, do you feel the power of stroke or force pushed through the water from when the elbows go high to when the hands go down to the legs. I've seen faster swimmers and seen two different types of styles (visually that is) 1) faster cadence and less power and 2) lower cadence and more power or visual push of water from the pull to the push. I didn't know how the faster swimmers swam and also how do Tri swimmer vs Olympic swimmers swim different..focus. |
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2011-01-27 10:35 AM in reply to: #3324406 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push Sorry, I'm lost. What is the question? |
2011-01-27 10:39 AM in reply to: #3324541 |
New user 433 | Subject: RE: Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push Sorry for the confusion, for the faster swimmers, do you feel a water push effect when you go from the pull to the push phase? Or do you try and push "lighter" in the water and get a faster cadence? Its more of feel of the water question..and what you should feel when you go faster. 1:30 or faster. |
2011-01-27 10:44 AM in reply to: #3324553 |
Champion 5117 Brandon, MS | Subject: RE: Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push chenny - 2011-01-27 10:39 AM Sorry for the confusion, for the faster swimmers, do you feel a water push effect when you go from the pull to the push phase? Or do you try and push "lighter" in the water and get a faster cadence? Its more of feel of the water question..and what you should feel when you go faster. 1:30 or faster. I feel the same thing now (after a very extended layoff) that I did when I was at my peak three years ago. "It doesn't get easier, you just get faster." Forget who said that, but it's true. Anyway, my stroke is my stroke. It's like a golf swing. There are guidelines, but they're all a little different. There really shouldn't be some dramatic difference in how it feels, you should just be going faster because you're swimming a lot and getting better. |
2011-01-27 10:50 AM in reply to: #3324406 |
Elite 7783 PEI, Canada | Subject: RE: Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push I think I know what you mean. Kinda like cadence on the bike? High cadence/lower force vs low cadence and higher force? There have been a few discussions of late about strokes per length and stroke rate which discussed this. I think there is a bit of experimentation required there as (like biking) one will work better for some but not others. For me personnally, I used to be a low turnover, deep slow puller but have changed to a bit of a higher turnover focusing more on the catch phase of the stroke and less on the final push towards the hips. I found that this allowed me a bit more speed for less effort. YMMV |
2011-01-27 10:53 AM in reply to: #3324406 |
Extreme Veteran 833 Strong Beach, CA | Subject: RE: Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push I am pushing/pulling water from the time my enters the water till the time it leaves the water. If I want to go faster, I pull harder....which in turn increases my turnover. |
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2011-01-27 11:06 AM in reply to: #3324406 |
Extreme Veteran 516 Olathe, KS | Subject: RE: Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push I'll agree with the comments by axteraa. I've always characterized my pull through the water as "long and strong." A good long extension of the arms and shoulders upon entry in the water and a good follow through at the end. It's always been my belief, particularly if a swimmer's technique is average or below, that a high arm pull turnover is the result of a short and inefficient stroke (this does not necessarily refer to a swimmer who is sprinting/racing/going fast). Edited by Barkeep 2011-01-27 11:09 AM |
2011-01-27 11:54 AM in reply to: #3324406 |
Master 1795 Boynton Beach, FL | Subject: RE: Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push I battled with this for a while and sometimes still do. I play around with my stroke cadence to find the sweet spot where I have best balance of being able to hold that cadence while maintaining good from. If I get too aggressive with cadence, I can tell my form starts to drop after 200-400 yrds or so. Similarly, if I have too slow a cadence, I feel I can have the best form in the world, but speed will be the consequence. I might be able to swim all day @ 1:50 or so /100, but that is not my goal in a race. There is a point of diminishing return in regards to quick cadence, as eventually form pays the price. At least for longer distances. My rambling aside, I found the best tool to help me with this balance of stroke cadence and push/pull was the FINIS tempo trainer. Small sensor size of silver dollar that goes under your swim cap. You set it to the stroke cadence you want and it beeps at that interval. Really helped me build a consistent stroke and find my sweet spot. |
2011-01-27 1:45 PM in reply to: #3324760 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push cardenas1 - 2011-01-27 10:54 AM My rambling aside, I found the best tool to help me with this balance of stroke cadence and push/pull was the FINIS tempo trainer. Small sensor size of silver dollar that goes under your swim cap. You set it to the stroke cadence you want and it beeps at that interval. Really helped me build a consistent stroke and find my sweet spot. I agree with this 100%! Search the forums for any of a number of posts I've made on using the tempo trainer to explore your range of tempo vs. stroke length for some ideas on how to get started. To the OP, my fastest 100 is currently 1:24 and my recent 500 yd PB is 1:36/100 pace. I'm 5'2". So i'm not a lot faster than you, but a little. The feeling I get doesn't come from pulling or pushing the water. I focus on a sensation of slicing forward with my entry and spearing through the water meeting no resistance. The "pulling" arm is anchored in the water and I use just enough muscle energy, but not more, to allow it to stay in place as I rotate adn spear past it. It's a different paradigm than "pulling" or "pushing" harder...but it's one that allows you to engage your entire body in swimming, not just your (relatively weaker) arms. |
2011-01-28 12:02 PM in reply to: #3324406 |
New user 433 | Subject: RE: Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push Thanks everyone! The comments have helped allot! |
2011-01-28 12:41 PM in reply to: #3325115 |
Extreme Veteran 833 Strong Beach, CA | Subject: RE: Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push AdventureBear - 2011-01-27 1:45 PM The feeling I get doesn't come from pulling or pushing the water. I focus on a sensation of slicing forward with my entry and spearing through the water meeting no resistance. The "pulling" arm is anchored in the water and I use just enough muscle energy, but not more, to allow it to stay in place as I rotate adn spear past it. It's a different paradigm than "pulling" or "pushing" harder...but it's one that allows you to engage your entire body in swimming, not just your (relatively weaker) arms. That's a great way to describe it. I see so many people at the pool trying to swim laps that just don't seem to understand the need to streamline your body and try to feel your body slicing through the water. Edited by jackson61802 2011-01-28 12:42 PM |
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2011-01-28 8:33 PM in reply to: #3324406 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push So I thought about this question specifically tonight as I swam descending 100s from about 1:38 to 1:32, after doing a 500 warmup at around 1:45 pace. At 1:45, I feel relaxed and smooth with my weight shifting easily from one side to the other, little stress or strain in my arms, but I feel like my whole body is moving me forward. At the faster paces, with increasing turnover, there is a stronger sense of "anchoring" in the water, with more strain in the arms (posterior shoulders, lats, triceps), but the feeling doesn't come from pulling or pushing water with my arms...the feeling comes from trying to shift my weight (ie rotate my core) more quickly without slipping my hold on the water. it's easy to move your arms more quickly to increase tempo...the hard part is not losing your grip, and that takes muscular energy from your arms. But I wouldn't say it requires a great deal of strength. Anyway, just wanted to share what I was thinking about while swimming today. |