Swim Question: feeling of Power from pull to push

Sorry, I'm lost.  What is the question?

Sorry for the confusion, for the faster swimmers, do you feel a water push effect when you go from the pull to the push phase?  Or do you try and push "lighter" in the water and get a faster cadence?  Its more of feel of the water question..and what you should feel when you go faster. 1:30 or faster.

I think I know what you mean.  Kinda like cadence on the bike?  High cadence/lower force vs low cadence and higher force?

There have been a few discussions of late about strokes per length and stroke rate which discussed this.  I think there is a bit of experimentation required there as (like biking) one will work better for some but not others.  For me personnally, I used to be a low turnover, deep slow puller but have changed to a bit of a higher turnover focusing more on the catch phase of the stroke and less on the final push towards the hips.  I found that this allowed me a bit more speed for less effort.  YMMV

I am pushing/pulling water from the time my enters the water till the time it leaves the water.  If I want to go faster, I pull harder....which in turn increases my turnover.

I'll agree with the comments by axteraa.
I've always characterized my pull through the water as "long and strong." A good long extension of the arms and shoulders upon entry in the water and a good follow through at the end. It's always been my belief, particularly if a swimmer's technique is average or below, that a high arm pull turnover is the result of a short and inefficient stroke (this does not necessarily refer to a swimmer who is sprinting/racing/going fast).

Edited by Barkeep 2011-01-27 11:09 AM

I battled with this for a while and sometimes still do.   I play around with my stroke cadence to find the sweet spot where I have best balance of being able to hold that cadence while maintaining good from.   If I get too aggressive with cadence, I can tell my form starts to drop after 200-400 yrds or so.    Similarly, if I have too slow a cadence, I feel I can have the best form in the world, but speed will be the consequence.   I might be able to swim all day @ 1:50 or so /100, but that is not my goal in a race.   There is a point of diminishing return in regards to quick cadence, as eventually form pays the price.   At least for longer distances.   

My rambling aside, I found the best tool to help me with this balance of stroke cadence and push/pull was the FINIS tempo trainer.    Small sensor size of silver dollar that goes under your swim cap. You set it to the stroke cadence you want and it beeps at that interval.   Really helped me build a consistent stroke and find my sweet spot. 

I agree with this 100%! Search the forums for any of a number of posts I've made on using the tempo trainer to explore your range of tempo vs. stroke length for some ideas on how to get started.

To the OP, my fastest 100 is currently 1:24 and my recent 500 yd PB is 1:36/100 pace. I'm 5'2". So i'm not a lot faster than you, but a little. The feeling I get doesn't come from pulling or pushing the water. I focus on a sensation of slicing forward with my entry and spearing through the water meeting no resistance. The "pulling" arm is anchored in the water and I use just enough muscle energy, but not more, to allow it to stay in place as I rotate adn spear past it.

It's a different paradigm than "pulling" or "pushing" harder...but it's one that allows you to engage your entire body in swimming, not just your (relatively weaker) arms.

Thanks everyone!  The comments have helped allot!

That's a great way to describe it.   I see so many people at the pool trying to swim laps that just don't seem to understand the need to streamline your body and  try to feel your body slicing through the water.

Edited by jackson61802 2011-01-28 12:42 PM

So I thought about this question specifically tonight as I swam descending 100s from about 1:38 to 1:32, after doing a 500 warmup at around 1:45 pace.

At 1:45, I feel relaxed and smooth with my weight shifting easily from one side to the other, little stress or strain in my arms, but I feel like my whole body is moving me forward.

At the faster paces, with increasing turnover, there is a stronger sense of "anchoring" in the water, with more strain in the arms (posterior shoulders, lats, triceps), but the feeling doesn't come from pulling or pushing water with my arms...the feeling comes from trying to shift my weight (ie rotate my core) more quickly without slipping my hold on the water.

it's easy to move your arms more quickly to increase tempo...the hard part is not losing your grip, and that takes muscular energy from your arms. But I wouldn't say it requires a great deal of strength.

Anyway, just wanted to share what I was thinking about while swimming today.