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2011-05-09 4:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.

Scout7 - 2011-05-09 4:58 PM Calories burned running is generally estimated to be (weight of the runner / .63) * (distance run). Note, this is Net Calories Burned, which estimates basal metabolism. Your actual numbers may be slightly different. The less you weigh, the fewer calories you expend. The shorter the distance, the fewer calories you expend. Effort does not determine the number of calories burned, only the primary source of those calories. If you do high intensity, you tend to burn more of your glycogen stores than your fat stores. The advantage to higher intensity is that it has a loose correlation with distance traveled (meaning the harder you work, generally speaking the further you've traveled). If you want to burn more calories, go further. To go further, you will probably have to use a lower effort level, which means it will take you longer.
yesterday I did 5.2 miles in 45 mins

so I am (214/.63)*5.2=1766 Calories burned in 45 minutes?

but if I did it in 200 minutes I would burn the same amount?



Edited by ajusf16 2011-05-09 4:16 PM


2011-05-09 4:21 PM
in reply to: #3489960


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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
jmot - 2011-05-09 3:17 PM
Cnorrod - 2011-05-09 12:25 PM

Okay... a lot of what has been said is good info, but...

Unless you go get crazy expensive (and hard to find) tests done, you or I will never know how many calories we burn during an exercise, nor will that number be consistent every time.  Everything you see on a machine or read in a book or hear on the net is probably going to be an estimation of some sort.   Even though I have a degree in this, have certifications for it, and do it for a living, it is still somewhat guesswork (well at least not an exact science).   Everyone is different.

Now, with that being said, you are on the right track.   Trying to figure out calories or (Kcal) expended vs those consumed is a good habit to get into for losing weight.  Though I have not read this whole topic, I noticed you stated something to the effect of your body liking 140 and that you were fighting it to go lower.   This is a very common and true part of weight loss or any other adaptation of the body.  Everyones body tends to have a certain steadystate assuming they ate the exact calories they expended every day.   That goes for all parts of it... the amount of fat you carry, the muscle, the bone, etc.   The further you get from that point the harder it will be to maintain. 

Also, just because you are burning calories, does not mean they are fat calories.   When people say they want to lose weight, they are speaking of fat calories.   If you are training for a triathlon, and you are exercising fairly hard, then you are likely burning more calories from sugar than you are fat.   Oddly enough fat calories are best burned at a slow easy pace over long peroiods of time.    Sometimes your goals for weight loss and goals for triathlons will not go well together.

Anyway, if you want me to go over numbers that are specific to you and your situation, you can send me a message.   Hopefully some of this info will help with general ideas though.

 

 

You do this for a living?  Many points here run contrary to other information.

I got a VO2max done, with resting metabolic, for $85.  Some of the information provided included which fuels were being utilized, what percentage and total.  As my exertion climbed, so did the fat oxidation as well as total caloric expenditure.

Can you clarify?

 

That is a great tool to use and probably valuble for that price.   However, caloric expenditure from V02 max test run off of estimation calculations as well. 

I am not saying those test arnt good and very useful, and fairly accurate.   I am basically just pointing out that machines at the gym are estimates.   Is that not true? From what I recall, to get near EXACT measurements, I believe the test is done in an airtight room with a certain temp and then they measure the amount of heat you produce.  Similar to the tests that are done with food. That is not something the average person can just go do. The simple point that was suppose to be seen from that is that there are a lot of estimations that go into this science.

I wasnt bashing anyone in my statement and was simply stating some generalized ideas.   Yes, I am a wellness coordinator by trade.   I am not a dietician nor am I am exercise physiologists that test caloric expenditure.  Is anyone that posted one? 

 

 

2011-05-09 5:21 PM
in reply to: #3490086

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2011-05-09 5:35 PM
in reply to: #3489855

Seattle
Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.

MikeTheBear - 2011-05-09 2:45 PM Some good points here. I'll summarize the important ones and add my own. 1. It is UNLIKELY that your metabolism has slowed down. Yes, this is a popular thing to say, but it really requires extreme conditions, i.e., actual starvation or near starvation for this to happen. So, don't be afraid to take your calorie deficit even lower, unless, as someone mentioned, it affects the quality of your workouts. 2. Some of the sarcastic comments in red are, unfortunately, true. Like the one about gaining more weight leading to increased calorie burn. At a weight of 230, a one-hour mountain bike ride at 14 mph will burn over 1,000 calories. However, my guess is you don't want to go to 230 - heck, I don't even want to be at 230. The harsh reality is that the closer you get to the weight you want the harder it is to lose. 3. Go faster, longer. While you don't need to train for an Ironman, you do need to increase pace and distance. As my good buddy The Bear mentioned, riding at 10 mph is quite leisurely. Unless, of course, you're riding hills, in which case you need a calories-burned formula that adjusts for this increased intensity. Otherwise, it's not accurate. 4. As others have mentioned, add other activities. Lifting weights is a good choice for those seeking fat loss, for many reasons. And before you ask, the answer is no, you will not gain a bunch of muscle from lifting weights, especially if you're in a calorie deficit. 5. Understand that the body tends to do things in spurts. Although we would prefer nice, linear progress, the body doesn't work that way. Implement some of the above suggestions and you will see resumed weight loss.

You always give amazing advice. Thanks for your contributions. 

2011-05-09 5:40 PM
in reply to: #3488574

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.

Have to sit down tonight and go through the whole thread.  Tons of great info.

Now for those saying 10 MPH is a leisurely pace.... not for me  That's part of the problem.

2011-05-09 6:44 PM
in reply to: #3490086

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
ajusf16 - 2011-05-09 6:15 PM

so I am (214/.63)*5.2=1766 Calories burned in 45 minutes?


I think it should have been weight*.63. Personally I use this approximation:

1Cal/kmkg

but if I did it in 200 minutes I would burn the same amount?



Yes although if you switch to walking then it is slightly more efficient so caloric expenditure will go down.

Shane


2011-05-09 6:57 PM
in reply to: #3489462

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
Cnorrod - 2011-05-09 2:25 PM

Unless you go get crazy expensive (and hard to find) tests done, you or I will never know how many calories we burn during an exercise, nor will that number be consistent every time.


I wouldn't call VO2max testing crazy expensive or hard to find; most universities will have a met cart and can do the test. While I don't think that it is very necessary or worth the time and expense, it will provide the metabolic cost of exercise.

Also, just because you are burning calories, does not mean they are fat calories.   When people say they want to lose weight, they are speaking of fat calories.   If you are training for a triathlon, and you are exercising fairly hard, then you are likely burning more calories from sugar than you are fat.   Oddly enough fat calories are best burned at a slow easy pace over long peroiods of time.


Everything I have read would indicate that what is written above doesn't matter; use diet and exercise to create a caloric deficit and you will lose weight, primarily fat.

Shane
2011-05-09 6:58 PM
in reply to: #3490216

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
Asalzwed - 2011-05-09 5:35 PM

MikeTheBear - 2011-05-09 2:45 PM Some good points here. I'll summarize the important ones and add my own. 1. It is UNLIKELY that your metabolism has slowed down. Yes, this is a popular thing to say, but it really requires extreme conditions, i.e., actual starvation or near starvation for this to happen. So, don't be afraid to take your calorie deficit even lower, unless, as someone mentioned, it affects the quality of your workouts. 2. Some of the sarcastic comments in red are, unfortunately, true. Like the one about gaining more weight leading to increased calorie burn. At a weight of 230, a one-hour mountain bike ride at 14 mph will burn over 1,000 calories. However, my guess is you don't want to go to 230 - heck, I don't even want to be at 230. The harsh reality is that the closer you get to the weight you want the harder it is to lose. 3. Go faster, longer. While you don't need to train for an Ironman, you do need to increase pace and distance. As my good buddy The Bear mentioned, riding at 10 mph is quite leisurely. Unless, of course, you're riding hills, in which case you need a calories-burned formula that adjusts for this increased intensity. Otherwise, it's not accurate. 4. As others have mentioned, add other activities. Lifting weights is a good choice for those seeking fat loss, for many reasons. And before you ask, the answer is no, you will not gain a bunch of muscle from lifting weights, especially if you're in a calorie deficit. 5. Understand that the body tends to do things in spurts. Although we would prefer nice, linear progress, the body doesn't work that way. Implement some of the above suggestions and you will see resumed weight loss.

You always give amazing advice. Thanks for your contributions. 



I'm glad my random musings help. I enjoy sharing information with folks.
2011-05-09 6:58 PM
in reply to: #3488574

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
Deb -

Lots of things to say but I don't want to rehash what others said. Just a few things I don't think I saw mentioned...

1) You are already within "healthy" range so it is going to be more difficult at this point to lose weight. Have you taken into consideration your body frame size? If you're small then you'll probably be OK aiming lower, but if you have a larger build your body likely is going to fight you on the way down.

2) Formerly Obese people sometimes have a lower BMR then never obese people. The difference isn't huge, but I suspect yours is likely lower then 1600, and you might think about getting that tested. Your bodybugg may be estimating your BMR way too high considering your well conditioned physical state AND formerly obese state.


2011-05-09 7:07 PM
in reply to: #3490219

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
GatorDeb - 2011-05-09 5:40 PM

Have to sit down tonight and go through the whole thread.  Tons of great info.

Now for those saying 10 MPH is a leisurely pace.... not for me  That's part of the problem.



Is this 10 MPH an average for your rides and if so, do you ride hilly terrain? When was the last time you calibrated your speedometer if that is what you use to get your speed? I just find it hard to believe because 5'4" and 143 is not exactly being really fat, so you're fitness shouldn't be so poor where 10 MPH is a significant effort. Something here is off. I'm 5'8" and 230 (yes, I used myself in the example) and even I can average 15 MPH on my mountain bike (slower than a road bike) on dirt trails (which slow things down even more). I'm not trying to put you down or make you feel bad - I'm just trying to put things in perspective.
2011-05-09 7:39 PM
in reply to: #3490314

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.

gsmacleod - 2011-05-09 7:44 PM 

1Cal/kmkg 

Shane

Making the equation less ambigious:

Calories burned =  Body Mass (kg) x Distance Run (km)

or Calories burned = Body weight in lbs x Distance Run (miles) x 1.34

 

 



2011-05-09 7:47 PM
in reply to: #3488574

Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
This reminds me that I have ice cream in the freezer...
2011-05-09 8:25 PM
in reply to: #3490350

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.

I don't know...I'm 5'2.5" and 124 lbs, so maybe a closer example, and 15mph on a mtn bike on dirt would be pretty tough for me I think. 10mph could be more reasonable of she lives in a hilly, windy area and/or rides a mtn bike.

 

Does your swim pace include resting? My hubby is about the same pace and that's because he still needs to rest every 25-50m. 

2011-05-09 9:12 PM
in reply to: #3490091


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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
Cnorrod - 2011-05-09 4:21 PM
jmot - 2011-05-09 3:17 PM
Cnorrod - 2011-05-09 12:25 PM

Okay... a lot of what has been said is good info, but...

Unless you go get crazy expensive (and hard to find) tests done, you or I will never know how many calories we burn during an exercise, nor will that number be consistent every time.  Everything you see on a machine or read in a book or hear on the net is probably going to be an estimation of some sort.   Even though I have a degree in this, have certifications for it, and do it for a living, it is still somewhat guesswork (well at least not an exact science).   Everyone is different.

Now, with that being said, you are on the right track.   Trying to figure out calories or (Kcal) expended vs those consumed is a good habit to get into for losing weight.  Though I have not read this whole topic, I noticed you stated something to the effect of your body liking 140 and that you were fighting it to go lower.   This is a very common and true part of weight loss or any other adaptation of the body.  Everyones body tends to have a certain steadystate assuming they ate the exact calories they expended every day.   That goes for all parts of it... the amount of fat you carry, the muscle, the bone, etc.   The further you get from that point the harder it will be to maintain. 

Also, just because you are burning calories, does not mean they are fat calories.   When people say they want to lose weight, they are speaking of fat calories.   If you are training for a triathlon, and you are exercising fairly hard, then you are likely burning more calories from sugar than you are fat.   Oddly enough fat calories are best burned at a slow easy pace over long peroiods of time.    Sometimes your goals for weight loss and goals for triathlons will not go well together.

Anyway, if you want me to go over numbers that are specific to you and your situation, you can send me a message.   Hopefully some of this info will help with general ideas though.

 

 

You do this for a living?  Many points here run contrary to other information.

I got a VO2max done, with resting metabolic, for $85.  Some of the information provided included which fuels were being utilized, what percentage and total.  As my exertion climbed, so did the fat oxidation as well as total caloric expenditure.

Can you clarify?

 

That is a great tool to use and probably valuble for that price.   However, caloric expenditure from V02 max test run off of estimation calculations as well. 

I am not saying those test arnt good and very useful, and fairly accurate.   I am basically just pointing out that machines at the gym are estimates.   Is that not true? From what I recall, to get near EXACT measurements, I believe the test is done in an airtight room with a certain temp and then they measure the amount of heat you produce.  Similar to the tests that are done with food. That is not something the average person can just go do. The simple point that was suppose to be seen from that is that there are a lot of estimations that go into this science.

I wasnt bashing anyone in my statement and was simply stating some generalized ideas.   Yes, I am a wellness coordinator by trade.   I am not a dietician nor am I am exercise physiologists that test caloric expenditure.  Is anyone that posted one? 

 

 

Its just that many of the things you posted are common misconceptions and half truths.  Those have been pointed out already.

 

2011-05-09 9:26 PM
in reply to: #3488574

Master
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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.

Deb,

If you are doing this:

 I work out around 3 hours a day and do Yoga, spinning, Zumba, TurboKick, and weights 3 X a week with at least one day in-between, one hour full-body.

3 hours a day is a lot of working out. You should wear your HR monitor again for a while. Even though Polar isn't super accurate, it will give you some decent numbers to work from for your caloric expenditures.

Also, 400 calories and hour for cardio is WAY off for you if you are 5 ft 4 and 143 lbs. I think you would be hard pressed to do a level of exertion to burn 400 calories an hour. I am 6ft, 210 lbs and 400 an hour is a medium hard run for me.

2011-05-10 2:44 AM
in reply to: #3488574

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.

The swim is without resting

 

Calories burned = Body weight in lbs x Distance Run (miles) x 1.34


Is that net or gross calories?  That would be 143 * 1.34 * 1 = 191.62.  That seems way high.  If I do 5 miles in an hour that's 958.1.  Even minus the 75 calories at rest, I am not burning close to 800 in one hour running .....

How many calories would you think you burn in an hour of cardio if not 400?  For spin they say as high as 1000 even though I calculate 400 for it also (and this is all net calories).  I log all my food, even weigh it, and keep track of it on Myfitnesspal.com ... have the phone app so if I eat it, I log it on the spot.



2011-05-10 2:54 AM
in reply to: #3490831

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
GatorDeb - 2011-05-10 2:44 AM

The swim is without resting

 

Calories burned = Body weight in lbs x Distance Run (miles) x 1.34


Is that net or gross calories?  That would be 143 * 1.34 * 1 = 191.62.  That seems way high.  If I do 5 miles in an hour that's 958.1.  Even minus the 75 calories at rest, I am not burning close to 800 in one hour running .....

How many calories would you think you burn in an hour of cardio if not 400?  For spin they say as high as 1000 even though I calculate 400 for it also (and this is all net calories).  I log all my food, even weigh it, and keep track of it on Myfitnesspal.com ... have the phone app so if I eat it, I log it on the spot.

The key to losing weight is sleeping.  Go to sleep.

(It is 3:53 here and 12:53 in Vegas.)

2011-05-10 5:44 AM
in reply to: #3488574

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
I work overnight.  If I try to fall asleep my boss throws stuff at my head
2011-05-10 6:38 AM
in reply to: #3490408

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
mgalanter - 2011-05-09 9:39 PM

Making the equation less ambigious:

or Calories burned = Body weight in lbs x Distance Run (miles) x 1.34



Not sure how the equation was ambigious but you've made a mistake here. Your equation should be:

Calories burned = Body weight (lbs) x Distance Run (miles) x 0.73

GatorDeb - 2011-05-10 4:44 AM

If I do 5 miles in an hour that's 958.1.


If you do the calculation I posted or the corrected one above, you get 520Cal for your 5 mile run, not the 960Cal. This is much more reasonable and in line with the rough guideline of 100Cal/mile.

Shane

2011-05-10 6:57 AM
in reply to: #3488574

Expert
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Atlanta, GA
Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.

This thread rocks ...


Losing weight is a food issue, not an exercise issue.  I say that as I sit here stuffing my face with a breakfast omlet.  If you eat the right foods it's REALLY hard to eat too much.  I had to stuff it in to get the calories I need to keep my energy up.  Now as I say that... Where are my M&M's...

2011-05-10 8:08 AM
in reply to: #3490408

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
mgalanter - 2011-05-09 8:39 PM

gsmacleod - 2011-05-09 7:44 PM 

1Cal/kmkg 

Shane

Making the equation less ambigious:

Calories burned =  Body Mass (kg) x Distance Run (km)

or Calories burned = Body weight in lbs x Distance Run (miles) x 1.34

Are you sure?  That's seeems way high!  Like 2x higher than I expected.  135 lbs  * 5 miles * 1.34 = 904.5

Ah, I see now that the multiplier should be .73 -- still higher than I'd have thought but 492.75 seems more reasonable Smile



Edited by jmkizer 2011-05-10 8:13 AM


2011-05-10 8:14 AM
in reply to: #3490314

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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.

gsmacleod - 2011-05-09 7:44 PM
ajusf16 - 2011-05-09 6:15 PM so I am (214/.63)*5.2=1766 Calories burned in 45 minutes?
I think it should have been weight*.63. Personally I use this approximation: 1Cal/kmkg
but if I did it in 200 minutes I would burn the same amount?
Yes although if you switch to walking then it is slightly more efficient so caloric expenditure will go down. Shane

214*.63*5.2=701

That seems much more reasonable

2011-05-10 8:15 AM
in reply to: #3488574

Runner
Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
My mistake. I typed too fast. My apologies for the mix-up.

It is:

(weight * .63) * miles = Net Calories Burned

This equation is simplistic, and will not be 100% precise. The actual calories burned will be based on external factors, such as terrain, weather, etc. as well as internal factors, namely your fitness level. But it is close enough for all intents and purposes (those other factors are either too difficult to measure, or too miniscule an impact to make it meaningful).
2011-05-10 8:20 AM
in reply to: #3491092

Expert
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Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
Scout7 - 2011-05-10 9:15 AM My mistake. I typed too fast. My apologies for the mix-up. It is: (weight * .63) * miles = Net Calories Burned This equation is simplistic, and will not be 100% precise. The actual calories burned will be based on external factors, such as terrain, weather, etc. as well as internal factors, namely your fitness level. But it is close enough for all intents and purposes (those other factors are either too difficult to measure, or too miniscule an impact to make it meaningful).
So if I drink 2 glasses of water before my run and add 2 lbs, I will burn more calories since I weigh more! Sweet this is great to have an exact formula
2011-05-10 8:27 AM
in reply to: #3491106

Runner
Subject: RE: Disappointed with how LITTLE calories triathlon training burns.
ajusf16 - 2011-05-10 9:20 AM

Scout7 - 2011-05-10 9:15 AM My mistake. I typed too fast. My apologies for the mix-up. It is: (weight * .63) * miles = Net Calories Burned This equation is simplistic, and will not be 100% precise. The actual calories burned will be based on external factors, such as terrain, weather, etc. as well as internal factors, namely your fitness level. But it is close enough for all intents and purposes (those other factors are either too difficult to measure, or too miniscule an impact to make it meaningful).
So if I drink 2 glasses of water before my run and add 2 lbs, I will burn more calories since I weigh more! Sweet this is great to have an exact formula


Sure. Until you sweat it out or pee it out. Then you are back to where you started. Of course, that extra two pounds equates to a whopping 1.26 calories per mile. Based on your logs for May, you would have burned a grand total of 11.08 calories.

Enjoy your 5 extra grapes!
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