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2011-09-27 10:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time

1:42:30

My 10k PR came 2 weeks after my HM PR, 45:18 vs 1:40:19.  Had optimal running weather for both (~45-50F) like what you will have.  I did tempo/speed work as part of my HM training which was very helpful in helping gauge what pace I should be able to hold.  Go out and do a 5-7 mile tempo run to see what it feels like for you.

Do all you can to cut corners to avoid adding distance to your run. 



2011-09-27 11:59 AM
in reply to: #3700367

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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time
I've no added insights, I just read through the thread. I'm guessing that <1:40 will hurt to finish and it will come down to how much the OP wants it. I prefer to bet for the win though, , so I'm in for 1:39:52.
2011-09-27 1:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time
this should be a poll!
2011-09-27 2:06 PM
in reply to: #3700367

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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time
Really good annalysis of how current fitness level will impact natural speed over a distance of more than 10k.  The take away is you will probably be sub 1:50, say 1:44:00, but that you have the natural speed to go sub 1:40 as you build your endurance.  So you want to do some longer runs once a week and the add some intensity once a week to close the gap between where you are now and where you want to be.  So building to 1 mile repeats x 8, quater mile jog recovery,  in a 12 mile run with the repeats at a 7:10 pace would own for your training.  Also having a long run of 15 miles would be really good for helping you to not drop off after 9 miles.  You are going to love miles 11-13 during your race 8).       
2011-09-27 2:14 PM
in reply to: #3701209

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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time
Khyron - 2011-09-26 12:34 PM

Why do people assume a marathoner runs so much more volume than a 10ker?

It's not true in every case, but it is the case with the OP. 

2011-09-27 3:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time

What I mean is this - if I'm running 30mpw and pull a 41 min 10k, and then I say I'm going to do a HM - on the same 30mpw, the prediction/fitness/running economy isn't going to change. If I do 30mpw and do a 1:35 HM and then decide to do a 5K on 30mpw, the volume doesn't change the prediction. The focus might change a bit, some longer runs, or faster runs but I'm still a 30mpw guy doing a 5K. 

If I all of a sudden double my volume, then my previous race isn't much use for prediction, since the added volume is going to make me faster overall.

This whole business about if you want to do a longer distance, the volume has to get longer doesn't make sense, other than the obvious minimums (which is where the marathon mcmillan calc is aggressive). Even worse is the thought that if you move back from HM to 10k you should somehow be running less.

 

 

 



2011-09-27 7:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time

Baowolf - 2011-09-27 3:06 PM So you want to do some longer runs once a week and the add some intensity once a week to close the gap between where you are now and where you want to be.    

I would set the priorities a little differently than this. Before adding in the 1-mile repeats I would recommend to add a couple of medium-length runs (e.g., 7-9 miles) during the week, as support for the long run. Those should help to make the long run feel a lot less of a stretch. Also, it seems that the OP may be limited by endurance more than by pace, based on his 5k time.

2011-09-27 8:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time
I will go 1:44:30 since the linked map says the course is 13.25 miles and your garmin will say it is 13.32.
2011-09-27 9:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time
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2011-09-27 9:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time
Scout7 - 2011-09-26 1:25 PM
wbayek - 2011-09-26 2:09 PM

I say 1:40:38.

I have a question for scout and others though.  I read a lot of comments on BT about not having to run fast in training to run fast in a race, but then I’m reading comments on this thread about the OP not running fast enough in training to support a fast race.  Am I reading these comments right or missing something?  I’m about to really drink the run lots, mostly slow, kool aid this winter so I want to be sure I’m understanding what’s being said.

Well, the actual statement is "Run lots, mostly easy, sometimes hard". It helps to think of things in terms of effort, rather than pace (fast/slow), because that's really what you want to measure. Paces are really just one way of quantifying that (like HR or RPE). That being said, you have to go through a range of efforts in training. The majority of your running will be at an easier effort. The reason is to allow you to run more often. However, you're going to want to take some time during the week to go at a harder effort. The amount of time you spend working on harder efforts isn't really set in stone, and is going to vary throughout the year. But even in the off-season, there's no reason to not be doing tempo-type runs or progression runs. ETA: For someone who is trying to get ready for a race, harder efforts, particularly on long runs, are going to play a big part in determining what your realistic time goals should be. The harder efforts become more important as you get closer to a race.

N=1, but I did 1:36 off of very similar volume and zero training miles faster than the HM pace I ran (and I don't have a massive historical base and am definitely in the middle of the bell curve when it comes to natural talent).  I still say OP can get under 1:40 pretty readily.

2011-09-27 10:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time

First, Good Luck in your race!
IMHO: Sub 1:40 if that 5k time was more recent. A 5k from several months ago is more difficult to use.
I do think you can hold 8min/mi pace without too much difficulty. The course profile does climb for first half then down for a while...should be ok.
Overall...I agree with previous posters. A fast half-marathon is about muscular endurance at speed. Pure speed alone may take you 6-10miles with a decent base? Have you done a 12-14mile progression run. That is..Can you run well for 10miles then drop it to goal-pace for the next 3+miles? Personally, in training, I feel most prepared for a half-marathon when I can still reach my goal-pace at the end of a long-run. That's why the Kenyans do a lot of progression runs...and run at altitude..and have freakish genetics..but you know what I mean.

Doc


2011-09-28 9:15 AM
in reply to: #3701209

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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time
Khyron - 2011-09-26 6:34 PM

Why do people assume a marathoner runs so much more volume than a 10ker?



Well, in the amateur arena, it generally holds true. As you move up through the rankings, you're going to see that the training volume actually becomes pretty even. In other words, a 10K runner at the elite level is probably going to be doing similar volume throughout the year as a marathoner. The mix of workouts will change, but the average total miles run through a year between a 10K specialist and a marathon specialist are going to be around the same general level.

I have stated this in the past: I believe that most people would fair much better using a marathon training plan to prep for a 10K than for a marathon itself.
2011-09-28 11:29 AM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time

I have only run one marathon and a half dozen HMs, but for me, every race was determined by the last 5K (10K for the marathon). In a good performance, I could up the perceived effort which often means holding a pace rather than speeding up.

In my last race (20K), I ran 9:30 pace for the first third, 9:00 for second third (with "hills"), and 8:40 for the last third. For comparison, my training pace is 10+.

2011-09-29 8:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time

This thread became so much more than I hoped for (in a very good way).  Again I thank everyone for their input.

In the interest of continuing the thread and providing a tiny bit more information, I did a run yesterday at a harder/faster pace.  The km splits are in the log but the summary is that it was a 9k run, avg pace was 4:44/km or 7:38/mile.  I didn't look at my watch to try to go at a particular pace, I just ran at a pace that felt "comfortably hard" and one that I felt I could continue for a fairly long while.  When I stopped, I felt like I could have kept going at that effort level for quite a while longer.

One run isn't really a lot of information to go off and it's probably a bit short to use as a HM reference but it is what it is.

2011-10-17 11:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time

and the winner is........   well, before I announce a winner we need to decide if it's "price is right" rules or just the closest to the actual time.

acumenjay was closest without going over at 1:46:47 but Scout was closest to the actual time with the 1:50 prediction.  My final time was 1:49:22 - race report found here

Basically, I think Scout's (and others) prediction based on of a lack of hard runs and volume that was my main undoing but I also got a nasty sinus cold about 5 days before the race that still hasn't fully gone away.  Just to finish me off, we had a nice 20-25 MPH wind hitting us at about a 45 degree angle for the last 7k.  I was on pace for 1:45 or a little under up to that point.  The wind probably cost me about 2 mins but ultimately, I chalk it up to the training that I did (or didn't do).  Not having run at that pace for that long left me in rough shape towards the end of the run and the wind and hills just killed me even though everything felt really easy up to that point.

It was a great learning experience. 

2011-10-17 1:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time
Interesting.  Nice job.  It sounds like the wind & your virus probably held you back a bit.  I still think you'd be closer to low 1:40s under "ideal" conditions .


2011-10-17 1:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Predict my half marathon time
I'm sure they held me back a bit but I don't think I had any chance whatsoever to go low 1:40s.  But now I have a goal to shoot for. 
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