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2012-03-27 8:04 PM

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Subject: bodybuilding and triathlons?
I'm stuck in the situation of wanting to build muscle mass (varsity football) while not putting on fat so I don't have to do all my upcoming triathlons while lugging around 20lbs uneeded on body fat while bulking. The base rule I usually follow is excess calories to bulk up and deprived calories to lose fat. The only advice I've gotten was to only do one at a time; not an option. I currently lift monday-friday and train for my tri's friday-sunday. Any nutrition or workout suggestions?


2012-03-27 8:24 PM
in reply to: #4116250

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Expert
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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
These seem to be mutually exclusive goals.
2012-03-27 8:28 PM
in reply to: #4116250

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
Yeah that's what I usually hear but it would be hard to stop either one.
2012-03-27 8:32 PM
in reply to: #4116250

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?

If you want to build muscle mass without building fat stores, then your best bet is to follow the protocols you'll find for (natural) body builders.  They are the experts at doing this.

You probably won't get particularly fast at triathlon by pursuing this goal, but you have multiple goals, so you have to make compromises.  (Muscle mass is in general not a great help to triathlon performance.  On the other hand, body fat is no help to triathlon performance either, so reducing it will probably have a beneficial effect.)

2012-03-27 8:46 PM
in reply to: #4116250

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?

So I am by no means a body builder, and not a fast endurance athlete either, but I do lift heavy four days a week and S/B/R once or twice a day five or six days a week.  What seems to be working so far is to S/B/R a LOT starting around new years.  Continue to lift heavy but don't expect any strength gains.  Cut calories and you will drop weight.  Come April or so you should be pretty lean depending on how much fat you had, and the heavy lifting should help preserve the strength while the S/B/R should help build your endurance for the race season.  Keep your goal weight through the summer, continue to lift heavy and train endurance.  You wont make any strength gains really and your tri training wont be as good as it could be but you'll still make progress.  Then come fall, cut the S/B/R back a little in volume but keep the intensity, lots of interval sort of stuff, and pack on the calories.  From say August through December shoot for 0.5 to 1 lb/wk.  You should now be making strength gains again and building muscle.  Rinse lather repeat.  Stronger each fall, and faster each spring!

2012-03-27 9:37 PM
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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?

I can't call myself huge or ripped not am I elite level fast at s/b/r but I do make a point to lift heavy and still do good s/b/r volumes.  It can be done but just know that you will always not be as good at any of it as you would be if you just focused on one or the other. 

Real example (me): Prior to running marathons I lifted only.  Got fairly strong. Pretty easily benched 350 lbs on regular basis.  Started running.  After 2 years and at time of first marathon (3:39) 1RM bench drops to about 300 lbs.  Another 2 years later and after marathon #12 (3:14 - 3:25, BQs, etc) 1RM bench down to about 285 lbs or maybe almost 300 on a REALLY good day. 

Point being you can see how my endurance activities (even though I only specifically called out the marathon part) cut into my strength.  They are just naturally different activities plus loss of body mass makes a big difference. 



2012-03-27 10:00 PM
in reply to: #4116250

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
Note that I'm already pretty lean about 5'9 150lbs, 12% body fat, give or take a little. But seems my best bet is to bulk up end of fall and winter and start leaning down end of winter early spring in start of the season. Thanks for the advice.
2012-03-27 11:01 PM
in reply to: #4116347

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
ssmith2 - 2012-03-27 9:37 PM

I can't call myself huge or ripped not am I elite level fast at s/b/r but I do make a point to lift heavy and still do good s/b/r volumes.  It can be done but just know that you will always not be as good at any of it as you would be if you just focused on one or the other. 

Real example (me): Prior to running marathons I lifted only.  Got fairly strong. Pretty easily benched 350 lbs on regular basis.  Started running.  After 2 years and at time of first marathon (3:39) 1RM bench drops to about 300 lbs.  Another 2 years later and after marathon #12 (3:14 - 3:25, BQs, etc) 1RM bench down to about 285 lbs or maybe almost 300 on a REALLY good day. 

Point being you can see how my endurance activities (even though I only specifically called out the marathon part) cut into my strength.  They are just naturally different activities plus loss of body mass makes a big difference. 

 

what is your deadlift at? (would ask squat but it is contorversial ...Those are good numbers, I am trying to be a hybrid athlete too - bench press was never good but deadlift was approaching 3x bw till I blew a disk

2012-03-28 3:12 AM
in reply to: #4116250

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
Lugging around muscle is not good for tris... I'm trying to keep up with the small fries here. I used to be a meathead type lifting weights, and I could DL 585lbs 3x... Triathlons are all about power to weight ratio, especially when it comes to the run. Over the past two years I've lost about 30lbs mostly muscle... My times are getting better and better. Hope that doesn't discourage you from triathlons, but you need to chose which sport you want to put your focus into. I do think they are mutually exclusive since they require different demands.
2012-03-28 4:07 AM
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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
Crossfit.....
2012-03-28 5:29 AM
in reply to: #4116446

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
synthetic - 2012-03-27 11:01 PM
ssmith2 - 2012-03-27 9:37 PM

I can't call myself huge or ripped not am I elite level fast at s/b/r but I do make a point to lift heavy and still do good s/b/r volumes.  It can be done but just know that you will always not be as good at any of it as you would be if you just focused on one or the other. 

Real example (me): Prior to running marathons I lifted only.  Got fairly strong. Pretty easily benched 350 lbs on regular basis.  Started running.  After 2 years and at time of first marathon (3:39) 1RM bench drops to about 300 lbs.  Another 2 years later and after marathon #12 (3:14 - 3:25, BQs, etc) 1RM bench down to about 285 lbs or maybe almost 300 on a REALLY good day. 

Point being you can see how my endurance activities (even though I only specifically called out the marathon part) cut into my strength.  They are just naturally different activities plus loss of body mass makes a big difference. 

 

what is your deadlift at? (would ask squat but it is contorversial ...Those are good numbers, I am trying to be a hybrid athlete too - bench press was never good but deadlift was approaching 3x bw till I blew a disk

I don't do deadlift. I'd like to do it but never got into it and so now it doesn't make it into my routine. Most of my lifting now is to maintain some amount of decent upper body. 585 is great though!!


2012-03-28 7:40 AM
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2012-03-28 8:16 AM
in reply to: #4116250

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
any lifting exercises i could throw in my routine that would support my triathlon training?
2012-03-28 8:19 AM
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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
mikemd - 2012-03-27 9:04 PM

I'm stuck in the situation of wanting to build muscle mass (varsity football) while not putting on fat so I don't have to do all my upcoming triathlons while lugging around 20lbs uneeded on body fat while bulking. The base rule I usually follow is excess calories to bulk up and deprived calories to lose fat. The only advice I've gotten was to only do one at a time; not an option. I currently lift monday-friday and train for my tri's friday-sunday. Any nutrition or workout suggestions?



Excess calories to build muscle and a calorie deficit to lose fat is the ONLY option. There isn't another choice.
You cannot build muscle mass without running a calorie surplus, and you cannot lose fat without a calorie deficit.


If it helps at all, you will probably burn up a lot of the fat/excess calories with the endurance training, but your lean mass gains are going to slow to a crawl, if you can even maintain the growth at all, that is.

If anything, depending upon which position you play in football, your focus shouldn't be to gain mass as much as to increase strength (same, but different). If you're a linebacker or something where mass IS important, then you should probably let the endurance stuff take a back seat to football for now. Increase your intake and accept that you're going to carry some extra fat in the triathlons.... at least the endurance stuff should keep the amount of fat to a minimum.
2012-03-28 8:26 AM
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2012-03-28 10:04 AM
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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
I'm just posting to welcome my cousin mikemd to BT. Glad to see you finally signed up. Talk to you soon. C


2012-03-28 10:57 AM
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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
Very difficult to bulk while cutting.  Even pro bodybuilders don't do this. 
2012-03-28 10:58 AM
in reply to: #4116757

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?

joeinajeep - 2012-03-28 8:26 AM As for exercises that may help both sports, I'd choose: barbell jump squats, wall sit, single-leg stability ball curls, single-leg squat, and reverse bridge hip-ups. Maybe some calf raises also...

 

Another crazy exercise and not in a good way.  If you want to squat then squat don't try the jumping with weight on your back.  I've seen it done on a smith machine but that's about it.  Then again I've seen some pretty stupid stuff in the weight room.

2012-03-28 10:59 AM
in reply to: #4116660

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?

joeinajeep - 2012-03-28 7:40 AM I do bodybuilding every day, and only one or two sessions of SBR (each) every week. Any more, and I start loosing muscle. So I never plan to win a tri obviously. I've found that tight compression tops and bottoms are crucial in the run to hold all that muscle from bouncing.

 

WTF?  Muscle bouncing has nothing to do with losing muscle

2012-03-28 11:07 AM
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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?

Bulking up for varsity football indicates to me that you're in high school.  Were it me in your shoes, I'd focus on weights and use 'tri' ing for more of a cardio workout than expecting to podium an Iron Man. If you get obsessed with tri's then focus on that. I am into weights and do sprints with my GF (she's into tri's). I do have a goal to compete in an olympic distance tri but the goal is just to finish.

The hard part about doing what you want to do is finding the time. I have the luxury of hitting the weight room for 'lunch' and then do my 'cardio' after work. You should try to divvy up your time more like every other day (if not morning/evening) instead of week/weekend.

For bulk, you should go to the gym 4/5 times a week and focus your workouts around bench,squat and deadlift. Deadlifting is an awesome power move but must be done with perfect form. How many people do you see doing deadlifts? And how many of those people are skinny little guys? Not many people deadlift. And of the ones that do, a lot use bad form. DON'T use too much weight and keep the old adage in mind - lift with your legs and keep your back staight. I pretend I'm picking up a heavy box. My personal record is 495lbs. I don't really 'max out' though. I warm up then workout with 315 for reps. usually around 10.

Don't use wrist straps for back workouts. If you can't grip the weight then take some off and then work on your forearms.

Bench Press. a LOT. Alternate between bar and bumdbells, flat and incline. Again focusing on form. Use a wide grip, you wont be able to press as much but you get your chest a lot better and you can focus on triceps afterward.

Squat. Not much to say about that. Other than 'to the bucket'. Using good form. Explode up, as it's a power move.

and then fill in with bi, tri, shoulder and calves. The smaller muscles don't need as much work (to a degree).

and think in terms of years, not months. nothing happens quickly.

2012-03-28 11:18 AM
in reply to: #4116250

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?

I played highschool and Div 1 football for 4 years as an outside linebacker. I currently weigh 250 and lift heavy 3 to 4 days a week with triathlon traing R,B,S mixed in. I feel that all the heavy squats and leg exercises I have done over the years of football traing have given me alot of muscle endurance. I have completed a 70.3 and a marathon while at this weight. The key like everyone has said is to gain muscle, not fat. Eat healthy but just alot more and remember triathlons will be a part of your life forever if you wish. I'm over 40 and really have just started to tap my triathlon experience and knowledge and plan on doing it for many more years.

Your highschool football career is short so if you have to gain size for that sport, don't worry you can always drop the weight after football.

Best of luck.



2012-03-28 12:44 PM
in reply to: #4117150

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
Becareful of intramusclular fat - It can make your muscles LOOK bigger and you might feel stronger since there is less distance for the weights to travel....- but detrimental to cardio performance and is not real strength. Diet is key here, and patience - real muscle can only be grown at a rate of 1-3 lb a year; people who say they have more either gained water weight or fat
2012-03-28 1:44 PM
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2012-03-28 2:40 PM
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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
Stronglifts.com including s/b once week. I think with the football you get enough running in.I am playing Aussie rules while training for tri's, just the injures after a bad hit aren't really good I have noticed.
2012-03-29 7:14 AM
in reply to: #4116250

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Subject: RE: bodybuilding and triathlons?
Talk to any of your football/wrestler friends. Same problem, need to be as big as possible for one sport and as light as possible for the other. I have three words for you Lean Muscle Mass. It does a body good. Healthy is fast and strong!
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