Total Immersion

I started tri's this year, I was not, and have never been a swimmer.  I am not blazing fast, but I feel I have made great progress in the last 8 months.   TI helped tremendously initially.  I got the book, and watched videos of drills on you tube.  It helped get me comfortable in the water and find good balance.  I feel TI taught me how to swim right, but don't feel that is what helped me get faster.  From the TI resources I used, I think it focused too much on the glide. 

If you need to get more horizontal (lessen drag), and imprint good mechanics, I would highly recommend TI.  If you are just looking to get faster, I would say work on pull/high elbow catch/early vertical forearm.  Also, make intervals the majority of your swim workouts.  It is easy to swim 2000yd and glide TI style, but 20 x 100yd will get you faster (and also make you want to puke).

Take my advice with a grain of salt. I really have only been swimming the last 8 months.  There are many other posters with way more experience and skill.  This is just what has worked for me.  Lately my 100 yd intervals are in the 1:25 range.

I started learning TI last January.  I bought the book, followed all the drills, and watched videos on youtube.  I got about 10 seconds faster per 100.  I was really hoping to see more improvement in speed, as I was already very very slow to begin with.  I did reduce my stroke count 6 strokes per lap, which tells me I became much more efficient.

TI has helped me with my swim mechanics.  I am able to balance in the water and breath better.  This has made me much more comfortable in the water, and I actually enjoy swimming now.  Before I learned TI, I dreaded swimming.  I still have a long way to go.  I think now I need to focus on some speedwork and intervals, in addition to mainly doing long swims.  Maybe that will help me get faster.

I put a lot of work into learning TI, and think it has been worth it.

Would you attribute being in this speed zone to TI or to something else?  My 100 time sits around 2:05.  I admit that if I could hold such a pace for the entirety of a 1500m Oly swim (I'm focusing on Oly races for now... not ready for half-iron or iron distances, yet), I'm looking at a 31:15 swim.  I suppose I'm not doing too horrible, but if there's some improvement to be had, I'll take it.

I'd definitely recommend the book. The core concepts of efficient swimming are common to all good freestyle and you should at least be familiar with them (streamlining, pushing the buoy, etc.)

I learned to swim way before the TI wave, certainly training methods have changed since then. I haven't spent time getting into the details of TI, that said, I wouldn't throw my money at TI. 

TI has a strong focus on glide, you glide with one arm in front of you waiting for the recovering arm to catch up, only then you begin your next stroke. And that IMO is the problem, glide is interpreted as wait, which have the effect of producing over-gliders: While you wait, you slow down and have to accelerate again with the next stroke, speed is sacrificed to conserve energy.

One should not interpret glide as wait but as reach: Think of trying to pick apples, you reach up as far as you can but once you've got hold of that apple you pull, you don't wait. Same with the stroke, when you can't reach further it's time to get on with the next stroke.

Lots of people have learnt to swim with TI and are happy with the result, but some later find themselves struggling to unlearn their (over-)glide. What's important is what works for you. I'd recommend taking a look at SwimSmooth also, they are a more pragmatic down to earth IMO. 

BR

I have used TI and I am still using it. People at the local pool have asked me if I am doing TI because of my weird drills without equipment and my smooth swimming without any splashing and wild kicking. Of course I would never compare myself to the good swimmers and Terry Laughlin, but I think you will notice how your swimming technique will become smoother than most others' swimming styles at the pool. It may take you only 2 months or a year or even longer, just be patient and you will get there.

   YES...it does work.  The thing is, you need to put in the time.  The system starts very basic (ie. floating on your back and kicking across the pool).  Many find this too boring to stick with.  Swimming is like golf, martial arts,  and other "form" sports where there is so much to think about, it is really hard to just go and do it.  Instead, you have to re-program your brain and take baby steps. 

   If you are willing to put in a couple of months, then it will work for you.  I just started back in August and have noticed a difference.  Form is KING when it comes to swimming and that is what TI is all about!  Stick with it and don't move on to the next drill untill you have mastered the current one and you WILL see results.  Good luck!

Talk about TI teaching 'gliding' is misinformed. You simply will not find an instruction to 'glide' in whole stroke anywhere in our literature or hear it on our videos. Nor will you ever hear such an instruction from one of our coaches. Where we do teach gliding is in the first two drills in the learning sequence for freestyle -- Superman Glide, and in two of the three versions of Superman-Glide-to-Skate.

In each of these instances the student practices 'gliding' for a duration of just a few seconds. This use of 'gliding' has a specific purpose -- to interrupt the nearly universal human instinct to churn the legs, or as we call it 'busy' legs. Busy legs burn a lot of oxygen and energy while contributing zip to either body position or propulsion. 

What we do teach -- unequivocally and without exception -- is a sequence that develops the following non-negotiable skills of efficient swimming, always in this order:

Balance and Stability -- Explore how a human body naturally behaves in the water. Increase comfort (sense of support) and ease. Improve body control. Stop moving around in water.

Streamline - Move through the water, instead of moving the water around.

Propulsion - Direct 'available' forces (body mass, buoyancy and gravity) before generating muscular forces. Work with, not against, the water.

We teach those via activities we call rehearsals, tuners and drills. We reinforce them in a highly choreographed way via Whole Stroke Focal Points. This stroke development method has been refined over 20+ years and empirically tested with 10s of 1000s of athletes. 

Once the athlete progresses from a primary focus on learning the skill foundations to developing a capacity to swim a specific distance at a specific pace, we have them make extensive use of a Tempo Trainer, to hone an individual sense of how to combine Stroke Length and Rate to achieve best pace at lowest cost.  

If anyone has questions or criticisms of what we actually teach, we're happy to entertain them. 
Discussing things we don't teach is a waste of everyone's time.  

Kermat. Thanks for your testimony that TI does work. However I'd like to be clear. "Floating on your back' is not part of the TI learning sequence. A drill called Balance on Your Back was included in our learning sequence 16 or more years -- and 4 generations of self-help videos -- ago. However even when it was we told our coaches to be aware that "No one comes to TI to learn Balance on Your Back." (I.E. Use it briefly, be clear on its purpose, then move on.)

We now start with Superman Glide and progress to Skate, both of which are done in a nose-down position. What has not changed is encouraging the student to be patient, purposeful and attentive.

I started with TI about 1.5 weeks ago. I was comfortable in water, but never learned to swim or took swimming lessons. I'm not unsafe in water, just never learned stroke swimming. I read the book and am watching the DVDs, following the lessons outlined in them. 

I really like the drill progression. Considering I started from nothing, I find the progressions easy to follow and am generally successful at them, indicating that each drill doesn't incorporate too many new concepts to master.

I don't really have results yet, as it's only been about 6 swims totaling 4.5 hours, but I feel like I'm at least on my way. 

I have the DVDs and they helped me with some basics. Then I also read "Swim Speed Secrets" by Sheila Taormina and the focus of the "catch and pull" and this book has really helped. I also like the "Swim Smooth" book. 

No 'system' has all of the answers. But, yes, if you study the TI approach, there will be lots of things that you can learn from it. But there are other systems and approaches from other very skilled coaches and swimmers that are also highly valuable. If you pick up info from as many different reliable sources as you can, you'll probably get the best picture of what it truly takes to learn to swim fast with the minimum of watts.

Learn from every source available to you, and combine what you learn. Nobody has a monopoly on the right answers.

Not to offend Total Immersion, but I'm a skeptic.  My likelihood to take input from a party associated with the very program I'm trying to verify is very slim.  I do thank him for the input, but I'm after info that has bias through use by someone not getting some sort of paycheck from TI.

Here's my situation... I'm NOT a great swimmer.  I have the ability, with my current form, right or wrong, to hold a pace such that I finish 250m in about 6:30, and I can do 100m in about 2:05.  Obviously, I gas out and my stroke becomes less efficient over time.  My goal, right now, is far more endurance oriented than speed oriented.  I'm finding, however, that volume in swimming delivers diminishing returns.  I have managed to get myself from gassing halfway down the lane to gassing out halfway down the lane on the 11th trip.  I've also learned this crazy thing called side stroke which, for me, consumes less energy and allows me to keep pushing but destroys my time.
As I mentioned before, if I could hold a 2:05 100m pace for 1500m, I'd be able to turn a 31:15 swim in an Oly.  One of my goals is to turn a 30min 1500 and not be utterly gassed on the bike.

I love doing triathlons (which is very odd, because I'm NOT fond of running), and I really want to improve in the sport.  I don't care if others call me mediocre in 3 sports... I want to be bad in THIS sport.  Since my swim is my Achilles heel...

Part of your 'diminishing returns' problem is that your stroke technique has some major problems. If you're able to at least somewhat fix those issues, then swimming most definitely will not deliver diminishing returns. Have you ever looked for a local swim technique coach to help you with your stroke? With your swim speed, getting help like that (but from someone who knows what they're doing) would likely pay off hugely for you.

I disagree that someone at 2:05 / 100m (not yards) HAS to have major stroke errors.

I swim routinely at 1:35/100yards for 3000yds nearly straight now going at a brisk effort for myself, but for sure, if I slow it down to the amount of arm power in the pull I had a mere 18 months ago for an very easy "all-day pace", I'm back to 2:00ish/100meters (not yards). 

I used to believe all the folks here who keep railing on major stroke errors at the 2:00/100m mark, but its def not true of anyone. And FWIW, I've taken several one-on-one swim lessons and currently drop by 2 separate masters groups, and no major speed-killing stroke errors were ever identified, even when I was around the 2:00/100m mark. For sure, lots of small things, but my current masters coach thinks its doubtful that I'll get even 10sec/100 anyomre through pure technique. And my technique is essentially identical to when it was at 2:00/100m pace 18 months ago, for sure no major changes.

if someone swims 2:00 min/100 and is gassed or is in a race then they do have large possibilities of improvement, with their stroke.  sure if they are just cruising that speed then that is another story. 

I am no way affiliated with TI, but everything adventurebear says regarding swim stroke is sound.

At no point have I personally suggested that there is no problem with my stroke.  Since the fastest I have swam to date is a 0:48 50m.  Logic would dictate that either something is wrong with my stroke or I'm simply not strong enough to propel a 235# body through water at a higher speed.  Still, I find it odd that one could automatically assume I have a bad stroke without seeing said stroke.

I don't know what kind of stroke count I have per pool length.  I do know that I am slow and short on endurance.  For me, just swimming laps over and over is not serving to improve my stroke or my speed and has only marginally, IMO, improved my endurance.  

Sadly, I'm not in a position to have a coach or to take a Masters class.  I'm currently stationed on a submarine undergoing overhaul.  I have to be at work at 0600 and sometimes don't get out until 1600 or 1700.  I also have a 1.25hr commute, and no knowledge of where the nearest pool that does have coaches/Masters classes is located.
I get 2 hours for lunch/PT, and it's during this period that I go to the pool.  Between travel time and changing, I usually get about 45 to 50 minutes to do laps.  The pool I go to doesn't have coaches (Navy run pool). 
I'm also not in much of a monetary position to get a coach or take a Masters class.  Hence an interest in a self-coached program.

I do agree that mixing different programs is a good idea.  I've done P90X, but I also through in parts of other programs.  It worked out for me.  Doing the same with swimming only makes sense to me. 

In any case, the discussion here is coming in handy, and I'm hoping it continues.  The worst that could happen is that I find out about several programs to combine for maximum results.

I still disagree in small part with some of what you said, despite agreeing with most everything else, AB. 

When I was 'stuck' at 2:00/100m, it was NOT because of a major flaw error, even in retrospect. It was absolutely, 100% lack of arm power for the pull. I did have some major stroke errors getting to 2:00/100m, but once I was there, I was really limited by my inability to pull hard. 

It's similar to someone on a rowing machine-erg; they might be pulling with perfect techinque even as a beginner, but they simply won't have a big range of speeds as a beginner because their top end speed and endurance is too low. It's not because they've got terrible erg technique.

Now, I'm not saying all folks at 2:00/100meters have no stroke errors - in fact, a good percentage do. But I wouldn't go so far as to say that at that pace, if I took 10 of them and fixed their stroke, they'd suddenly lose 30sec/100. Probably 10sec/100 at best with no fitness increases. 

The most obvious thing to me in my progression from 2:00/100 to 1:30/100m in the past 18 months has been the power of my pull sustained over distance. It's a lot, lot stronger. My technique is essnetially identical - I'd be exaggerating to say that my technique change over that time has given me 5-10sec/100. And likewise, the small range in speed I had 18 months ago was completely due to my lack of top-end power (which is still improving.) 

Incidentally, I probably train very TI-like. I rarely do all-out 100s, and instead opt for more zone3ish type aerobic swimming for 90+% of my workouts. I've been forced to mix it up a bit more with the masters swims I've been attending, but I still think most of my triathlon swim gains are from my longer aerobic sets where I'm not killing it out there effortwise.

AB - just curious.  I noticed your lower stroke rate in your "after" video.  Do you find yourself picking up the stroke rate in OWS?  And do you adjust it based on the event distance (obviously racing 100m is a lot different than racing 1500).