General Discussion Triathlon Talk » HM nutrition plan. Rss Feed  
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2013-09-09 8:14 AM

Regular
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Ottawa, ON
Subject: HM nutrition plan.
Good day,

I am racing my first HM on Sept. 22 and need some advice on how I should approach my nutrition. Training has been good and I did my long run this past Friday which yield good result from my original goal. However I have yet during all this time focus on my nutrition.

***Before I start, please do not turn this thread into who or how far someone should go without water or intake calories. I truly believe it is personal for everyone and that you should do what works for you.***

I admit I am a ‘bonehead’ when it comes to running with nothing beside shoes, shirt and short. I don’t like to carry water or nutrition with me. I tried a few option at first (e.g. fuel belt, handheld gel flak, gel pack in my pocket ) but didn’t like the feeling of having to carry something extra on me and the ‘bouncy’ feeling from it.

My long run was almost 20K. (19.5K to be exact) As usual I would eat a gel and have some water just prior to my run so that I don’t need to carry anything with me. After the run I felt good but the last 1-2K was a little harder than usual. I felt like ‘the tank was empty’. It might have been because of what I ate for diner too (which was not much that day as I remember) but I felt like I did not have the same strength to ‘sprint’ the last ~1k. (I did a long run a week prior and felt fine on that one.)

I am confident that I would have been able to push it to 21K without a doubt but now I am wondering if I should add a gel or some kind of calorie during my race. Would I have a ‘boost’ of energy from it? Would it make me finish stronger? Was this only a one time issues which might be related to how my day went and the food intake I had? So the biggest question is if I should stick with how I have been training?

How should I approach on race day? I will most likely drink some water if needed at aid station but don’t know what to do for actual nutrition. Go with a gel at around 15k even if I haven’t train with it? Or drink some sport drinks instead of water?

Thanks everyone.
MInh


2013-09-09 8:38 AM
in reply to: mtx

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Expert
1325
100010010010025
Wilmington, NC
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
Originally posted by mtx

Good day,

I am racing my first HM on Sept. 22 and need some advice on how I should approach my nutrition. Training has been good and I did my long run this past Friday which yield good result from my original goal. However I have yet during all this time focus on my nutrition.

***Before I start, please do not turn this thread into who or how far someone should go without water or intake calories. I truly believe it is personal for everyone and that you should do what works for you.***

I admit I am a ‘bonehead’ when it comes to running with nothing beside shoes, shirt and short. I don’t like to carry water or nutrition with me. I tried a few option at first (e.g. fuel belt, handheld gel flak, gel pack in my pocket ) but didn’t like the feeling of having to carry something extra on me and the ‘bouncy’ feeling from it.

My long run was almost 20K. (19.5K to be exact) As usual I would eat a gel and have some water just prior to my run so that I don’t need to carry anything with me. After the run I felt good but the last 1-2K was a little harder than usual. I felt like ‘the tank was empty’. It might have been because of what I ate for diner too (which was not much that day as I remember) but I felt like I did not have the same strength to ‘sprint’ the last ~1k. (I did a long run a week prior and felt fine on that one.)

I am confident that I would have been able to push it to 21K without a doubt but now I am wondering if I should add a gel or some kind of calorie during my race. Would I have a ‘boost’ of energy from it? Would it make me finish stronger? Was this only a one time issues which might be related to how my day went and the food intake I had? So the biggest question is if I should stick with how I have been training?

How should I approach on race day? I will most likely drink some water if needed at aid station but don’t know what to do for actual nutrition. Go with a gel at around 15k even if I haven’t train with it? Or drink some sport drinks instead of water?

Thanks everyone.
MInh



I am a little confused. Maybe my reading comprehension is not that great?

Did the bolded part not answer your question as well as basically say do not give me any opinions on what to do? Again. I am not the brightest and it is early so I might be totally missing something.

In the case that I am mistaken above.
I would take a mouthful or two of water around half way and be done.
2013-09-09 8:42 AM
in reply to: mtx

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Master
2825
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ann arbor, michigan
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
You don't need a gel or any calories but I find a caffeinated gel at around mile 7-8 gives me a little boost (psychologic/physiologic-who knows). Sometimes I take a gel at HM distance, mostly I do not.

You could also just try to get a swallow or two of sports drink at each aid station. You will probably have close to 100 calories of intake by the end if you go that route.

You probably did not feel great for the last 1-2k because you had already run 17.5k. Just a thought. Don't know how much difference a gel would make....... Of course if you puke it back up it might make a lot of difference......
2013-09-09 8:46 AM
in reply to: qrkid

Regular
172
1002525
Ottawa, ON
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
My appologies. I should have word it differently.

I am seeking for opinion/recommendation. I just didn't want this thread to take a spin on how far should or can someone goes without water/nutrition.
2013-09-09 10:58 AM
in reply to: mtx

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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
How long are you expecting it to take? I have heard that 2 hours is the threshold for needed to take in calories, but I can't find any sources. This article says glycogen is depleted in 60 - 90 minutes. http://running.competitor.com/2011/06/inside-the-magazine/the-long-... I sometimes will have a few caffeinated beans during a HM, but I have also done fine without. I run a half in about 1:40.

I think that what you eat before the race is probably more important. How long I have to wait from get-up time to run time determines what kind of food I will have. I always like to take a caffeinated gel about 15 - 20 minutes before the start.

What you eat (or don't) the night before can make a difference as well.

2013-09-09 11:07 AM
in reply to: MichelleK

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Elite
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200010001001001001002525
Ontario
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.

I think you missed a big part of the equation - how long do you expect to be running.  The needs of someone on course for 90 minutes are going to be different than those of someone out there much longer.

Personally I train myself to drink every 2km for HM since this is where they position the water stations locally.  I just grab Gatorade, drink some, throw the rest (hopefully not on anyone).  Do I "need" it, likely not, but it does provide some sugars/calories, stops me from getting parched/thirsty, and matches how I train.  HM distance I would consider gels, especially with caffeine.  But as the saying goes, if you didn't try it in training, why test it out come race day.



2013-09-09 12:07 PM
in reply to: mtx

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Master
2540
200050025
Washington, DC Metro
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.

You are right... it is personal and what works for me, may not work for you.

That said, for a HM you likely wouldn't need much, if any nutrition.  If you are out there for 3 hours maybe its a different story, but if you are in the 2 hour range, a few hits of the on-course sports drink would likely suffice.  If what they are serving works for you (i.e. no tummy issues, etc.), then you wouldn't have to carry anything.

For me, I usually have some sports drink with breakfast the morning of the race, then sip on some water while waiting for the start, do a gel about 15 minutes before the start and then I run.  For that distance I wouldn't even take any on-course nutrition.

2013-09-09 12:11 PM
in reply to: GoFaster

Regular
172
1002525
Ottawa, ON
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
Originally posted by GoFaster

I think you missed a big part of the equation - how long do you expect to be running.  The needs of someone on course for 90 minutes are going to be different than those of someone out there much longer.

Personally I train myself to drink every 2km for HM since this is where they position the water stations locally.  I just grab Gatorade, drink some, throw the rest (hopefully not on anyone).  Do I "need" it, likely not, but it does provide some sugars/calories, stops me from getting parched/thirsty, and matches how I train.  HM distance I would consider gels, especially with caffeine.  But as the saying goes, if you didn't try it in training, why test it out come race day.




My goal is to be out there for about 1:30.

The last long run has me at a 1:35 finish time but I am hoping that I will be able to be a little faster with the adrenaline during race day. My plan is to hold a 4:20 pace (km pace) for the first 10k and than a 4:10-4:15 for the remaining.
2013-09-09 12:13 PM
in reply to: GoFaster

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81
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Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
My fastest HM was 1:40. I've run it between that and 1:45 3 times.

For me, my fastest time happened when I made myself stop at EVERY aid station, grab a paper cup of gatorade and I also consumed 3 gels. I didn't feel like I needed them, I didn't want to slow down to do it.

But, there you go. That little extra sugar seemed to help me. I think in my case it's good for an extra 2-3 minutes.

That said: unless you don't eat right the day before or don't hydrate well at all (maybe go out drinking the night before), you're not going to bonk.

I love that distance, personally. It's long enough to be a true challenge while not so long you're completely taken out of training for a week.

Enjoy!

2013-09-09 12:15 PM
in reply to: mtx

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81
252525
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
Originally posted by mtx

Originally posted by GoFaster

I think you missed a big part of the equation - how long do you expect to be running.  The needs of someone on course for 90 minutes are going to be different than those of someone out there much longer.

Personally I train myself to drink every 2km for HM since this is where they position the water stations locally.  I just grab Gatorade, drink some, throw the rest (hopefully not on anyone).  Do I "need" it, likely not, but it does provide some sugars/calories, stops me from getting parched/thirsty, and matches how I train.  HM distance I would consider gels, especially with caffeine.  But as the saying goes, if you didn't try it in training, why test it out come race day.




My goal is to be out there for about 1:30.

The last long run has me at a 1:35 finish time but I am hoping that I will be able to be a little faster with the adrenaline during race day. My plan is to hold a 4:20 pace (km pace) for the first 10k and than a 4:10-4:15 for the remaining.


That's a good pace, btw. Just do whatever you did in training - ignore my previous post.
2013-09-09 1:05 PM
in reply to: adelsud

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Veteran
571
5002525
Grapevine, TX
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
Plenty on the course likely for what you'll need. I agree that for an HM carrying anything is overkill given the aid stations. Sometimes a gel (I use honey stinger) about 40 minutes from the finish can give that "extra" boost. Let's face it, unless the weather is hot you don't need anything for the first 8 miles, and then its a 10k away from the finish.


2013-09-09 1:39 PM
in reply to: mtx

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Elite
3453
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Ontario
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
Originally posted by mtx
Originally posted by GoFaster

I think you missed a big part of the equation - how long do you expect to be running.  The needs of someone on course for 90 minutes are going to be different than those of someone out there much longer.

Personally I train myself to drink every 2km for HM since this is where they position the water stations locally.  I just grab Gatorade, drink some, throw the rest (hopefully not on anyone).  Do I "need" it, likely not, but it does provide some sugars/calories, stops me from getting parched/thirsty, and matches how I train.  HM distance I would consider gels, especially with caffeine.  But as the saying goes, if you didn't try it in training, why test it out come race day.

My goal is to be out there for about 1:30. The last long run has me at a 1:35 finish time but I am hoping that I will be able to be a little faster with the adrenaline during race day. My plan is to hold a 4:20 pace (km pace) for the first 10k and than a 4:10-4:15 for the remaining.

Any specific reason you plan to negative split the race?  No idea what the course looks like, but droppping 10sec/km for 10+km might be a tough ask.  Is that how you've been training, or is the second half of the course just faster?

2013-09-09 1:40 PM
in reply to: 0

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Elite
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Ontario
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.

double..



Edited by GoFaster 2013-09-09 1:49 PM
2013-09-09 2:53 PM
in reply to: mtx

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Expert
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1000100
Fernandina Beach, FL
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
Originally posted by mtx

Originally posted by GoFaster

I think you missed a big part of the equation - how long do you expect to be running.  The needs of someone on course for 90 minutes are going to be different than those of someone out there much longer.

Personally I train myself to drink every 2km for HM since this is where they position the water stations locally.  I just grab Gatorade, drink some, throw the rest (hopefully not on anyone).  Do I "need" it, likely not, but it does provide some sugars/calories, stops me from getting parched/thirsty, and matches how I train.  HM distance I would consider gels, especially with caffeine.  But as the saying goes, if you didn't try it in training, why test it out come race day.




My goal is to be out there for about 1:30.

The last long run has me at a 1:35 finish time but I am hoping that I will be able to be a little faster with the adrenaline during race day. My plan is to hold a 4:20 pace (km pace) for the first 10k and than a 4:10-4:15 for the remaining.


I agree with the poster that said what you eat prior to the race is probably more important than what you take in during the race. I carbo load the night before and get in some calories with an early breakfast before the race. During the race I only take in water as I feel it's needed.

FWIW my PR is 1:32 and based on my last 10k I should be going sub 1:30 next race. Like you said what works for one doesn't for another
2013-09-09 4:14 PM
in reply to: GoFaster

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Expert
1325
100010010010025
Wilmington, NC
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
Originally posted by GoFaster

Originally posted by mtx
Originally posted by GoFaster

I think you missed a big part of the equation - how long do you expect to be running.  The needs of someone on course for 90 minutes are going to be different than those of someone out there much longer.

Personally I train myself to drink every 2km for HM since this is where they position the water stations locally.  I just grab Gatorade, drink some, throw the rest (hopefully not on anyone).  Do I "need" it, likely not, but it does provide some sugars/calories, stops me from getting parched/thirsty, and matches how I train.  HM distance I would consider gels, especially with caffeine.  But as the saying goes, if you didn't try it in training, why test it out come race day.

My goal is to be out there for about 1:30. The last long run has me at a 1:35 finish time but I am hoping that I will be able to be a little faster with the adrenaline during race day. My plan is to hold a 4:20 pace (km pace) for the first 10k and than a 4:10-4:15 for the remaining.

Any specific reason you plan to negative split the race?  No idea what the course looks like, but droppping 10sec/km for 10+km might be a tough ask.  Is that how you've been training, or is the second half of the course just faster?




I think I am with GoFaster on this. Unless there are obvious topo reasons why pick that race strategy?

There was actually a thread about negative splitting just the other day. Your goal is 1:29:59 (4:16 pace). You want to go slower that goal pace for the 1st half. Your 2nd half you are going to have to run way quicker than goal pace just to get back to goal pace. Why not start at goal pace and if you can't pick it up after half way you can still maybe hang on for your sub 90 and if things are going well then you can pick it up just a couple of seconds/km and crush your goal.

Obv ,just like nutrition plans, the way you run a race is personal and how you feel comfortable doing it. I am always just a little baffled by this approach.
2013-09-10 3:18 AM
in reply to: mtx

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Champion
14403
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newport news
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.

Originally posted by mtx My appologies. I should have word it differently. I am seeking for opinion/recommendation. I just didn't want this thread to take a spin on how far should or can someone goes without water/nutrition.

my training for my first HM was similar to yours, except on really hot days i didn't carry any nutrition.  i DID test out the gatorade endurance that i knew would be on the race course to make sure it wouldn't upset my stomach.  come race day i did a normal breakfast and took a gatorade and water at every aid station.  i had plenty of gas in the tank to finish strong.  but i am also a SLOW runner - i was out there for 2:37 - but it was very representative of my training.

i would NOT wait to the last minute to take in calories - if you are already hurting it's too late, also my 17 mile run last week taught me that it leads to some digestion issues....spread them out throughout the race.  you shouldn't need much.



2013-09-10 8:02 AM
in reply to: mehaner

Regular
172
1002525
Ottawa, ON
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
Wow. Thank you for all the replies!!!

Re race strategy; from my course recon, there are some minor elevations but nothing really big as far as hills. I would say that the last 1/3 of the course is flat and have a very nice stretch to the finish. My initial strategy was to line-up with the 1:30 pace bunny and just follow him/her but someway convince myself that it is a bad way to race.

Somehow in my head, I thought that negative split would be the way to go and leave enough energy to increase speed near the end. I looked into my splits during my long run. They are pretty consistent but I did see that I was not able to increase 10-15 sec. and hold it for the last 5k. It was more a gradual increase by each final k. Therefore from the info given here and from what I can analyze from my training, I’ll just go out at goal pace (4:15) and try to maintain as long as I can and hopefully still have some energy near the end to push it harder.

Re nutrition; my plan is to carbo load Sat lunch time. My diet consist of mainly rice (Asian guy) so I don’t want to carbo load Sat night just in case I won’t be able to digest properly. I’ll eat something familiar on Sat night to ease up on my stomach. For breakfast, I have no clue. I don’t run in the morning so it makes it a little tricky for me to plan on what to eat. I usually eat breakfast as normal in the morning but only run at lunch time so by that time, everything is well digested. My late run are also approached the same way; eat around 5-6pm and go run around 8-9pm.

It does look like stomach is used to about 3 hrs. to digest any food intake so I might just eat a bagel with butter around 6am and be ready to start at 9am. I’ll replace my morning tea with a bottle of Gatorade just to be well hydrated. I’ll take the recommendation and stick with no gel during the race but have a caffeine base gel before I start the race. For hydration, I’ll just drink Gatorade on the course if needed.

With one more hard week to go before taper (no running for the last 2-3 days), what can I do to increase my chances to reach my goal? Any workout recommendation for the next 7 days ?
2013-09-10 8:15 AM
in reply to: mtx

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Expert
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100010010010025
Wilmington, NC
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
Originally posted by mtx

Wow. Thank you for all the replies!!!

Re race strategy; from my course recon, there are some minor elevations but nothing really big as far as hills. I would say that the last 1/3 of the course is flat and have a very nice stretch to the finish. My initial strategy was to line-up with the 1:30 pace bunny and just follow him/her but someway convince myself that it is a bad way to race.

Somehow in my head, I thought that negative split would be the way to go and leave enough energy to increase speed near the end. I looked into my splits during my long run. They are pretty consistent but I did see that I was not able to increase 10-15 sec. and hold it for the last 5k. It was more a gradual increase by each final k. Therefore from the info given here and from what I can analyze from my training, I’ll just go out at goal pace (4:15) and try to maintain as long as I can and hopefully still have some energy near the end to push it harder.

Re nutrition; my plan is to carbo load Sat lunch time. My diet consist of mainly rice (Asian guy) so I don’t want to carbo load Sat night just in case I won’t be able to digest properly. I’ll eat something familiar on Sat night to ease up on my stomach. For breakfast, I have no clue. I don’t run in the morning so it makes it a little tricky for me to plan on what to eat. I usually eat breakfast as normal in the morning but only run at lunch time so by that time, everything is well digested. My late run are also approached the same way; eat around 5-6pm and go run around 8-9pm.

It does look like stomach is used to about 3 hrs. to digest any food intake so I might just eat a bagel with butter around 6am and be ready to start at 9am. I’ll replace my morning tea with a bottle of Gatorade just to be well hydrated. I’ll take the recommendation and stick with no gel during the race but have a caffeine base gel before I start the race. For hydration, I’ll just drink Gatorade on the course if needed.

With one more hard week to go before taper (no running for the last 2-3 days), what can I do to increase my chances to reach my goal? Any workout recommendation for the next 7 days ?



I think your plan as you have written it above sounds pretty good.

Nutrition pre race. I try to use liquid nutrition on mornings of race. Normally like an ensure or boost, just to get an easily digested 300 calories. Pretty close to the race to experiment. Maybe if in the next 10 days you try drinking one on a couple of morning to see how you tolerate it a few hours prior to a run.


Workout wise. The hay is in the barn so to speak. There is no specific workout that is going to make a big difference at this point.
Pre race I do things a little different in that I take an off day 2 days before the race and then run the day before. Lots of people take the day before totally off. I would not be a fan of no running for 3 days prior. Even if it is just a 15 or 20min slow easy relaxed run on days Race - 2 and race -3.

Good luck and let us know ho wit goes.
2013-09-10 8:35 AM
in reply to: qrkid

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Master
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20001000100100100252525
Overland Park, KS
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
If you're only going to be out there an hour and a half or less your glycogen stores from night before and breakfast should be enough "fuel". This year I ran 3 HM's in 4 weeks (it was a series) and since I take 1:40-1:45 to run those I take a gel after about an hour. I weigh 195# so that's a lot of energy to move my body around in that amount of time. I'm not even sure it made a difference but I just didn't want to bonk. I take water at each aid station, on colder days I skipped a water station or two.

But for 1:30 or faster I think you're good with just water.
2013-09-10 8:59 AM
in reply to: wannabefaster

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Master
1672
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Rural Ontario
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
Originally posted by wannabefaster

You don't need a gel or any calories but I find a caffeinated gel at around mile 7-8 gives me a little boost (psychologic/physiologic-who knows). Sometimes I take a gel at HM distance, mostly I do not.


x2 I drink a sip of water at each aid stations and may switch to gatorade by the half-way point if 'in the mood'. A caffene gel or tablet is the best thing at around the 15km mark to wake you up and help you keep the pace pace. A full marathon is a different story - I find I run low on energy if I don't refuel.



2013-09-10 10:26 AM
in reply to: mtx

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New user
106
100
Overland Park, KS
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
I've only run 1 HM but I was in same situation, a little unsure on pacing and nutrition. Here's my experience:

Pacing: use the 1:30 pace group, if you are feeling strong, go ahead the last 5k. A pace group 'should' deliver you to the finish line just under goal time with a reasonably paced effort, if the quality of pacing isn't there, don't be afraid to go on your own, or preferably, with a few others. The race I ran didn't have anything faster than 1:40 but during the race a group of 10-15 formed within the first 2-3 miles, a group of similar speed athletes will keep you on task.

Nutrition: A drink of water every mile with a splash of Gatorade followed by water every 2 miles. I stopped the Gatorade and just did water about mile 8. Not a lot of calories but if you want the energy at the finish you need to give it time to digest. Depending on pre-race/workout nutrition and effort level, I can bonk in less than an hour or go 2+ hours with next to nothing.

Negative Split: In my opinion, planning to negative split to your goal is a recipe for running comfortably while not achieving your goal. Aim for your goal with an even pace and if you are having a great day (i.e. beyond expectations) a negative slip will be the result. However, a lot of that is personal, depending on how aggressive your goals are relative to your fitness. That being said, I ran the last 5k of my HM about 39 seconds per mile faster than the first 10 miles, it was a downhill finish with elevation dropping about 200 feet over those last 3.1 miles so that obviously accounts for some of the speed but I probably left time on the table by running too conservatively during the first 10 miles.

Have a great race, I think you'll beat your goal.


2013-09-11 12:25 PM
in reply to: mtx

Regular
172
1002525
Ottawa, ON
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan.
Sorry BT. One last question about my prep for the HM.

I am planning to do one last long run this Friday or Sat. I am aiming to run the whole 21k to get my body/legs ready. What should be my approach?

1. race rehearsal – run the distance while trying to get as close as 1:30 as possible
2. steady run – easy long rung (4:45/k pace) for 90 minutes
3. medium run (15-17k) to keep my legs at HM race pace (4:15)

Cheers!!
2013-09-25 10:04 AM
in reply to: mtx

Regular
172
1002525
Ottawa, ON
Subject: RE: HM nutrition plan. - Update: HM completed
Good day folks.

First I wanted to say thank you for all your advices. I was very helpful and it gave me a good idea on my strategy on race day! You guys are the best!

Here is the race report:
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...

Cheers!
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Now is the time to practice, perfect and master your training and racing nutrition. Especially for the beginner triathlete, this is the time for developing an individualized nutrition plan.
 
date : June 14, 2005
author : chrisandniki
comments : 2
Solid nutrition principles for those not wanting to put a lot of thought into eating healthy.