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Kona elitism.
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 2014-04-07 9:36 AM |
New user  84 |  Subject: Kona elitism. Has anyone else run into other triathletes that think the lottery is wrong? That the lottery steals spots from harder working athletes who are trying to earn their spot at worlds? I always thought of triathlon and triathletes as this welcoming community. That despite differences in abilities, part of the sport was that pros and amateurs alike race on the same course. Triathlon was started by a group of regular guys, why is it that it's unfair to allow "average" people to participate in the most iconic event? I keep coming across this. And I find it to be really disheartening. |
| 2014-04-07 9:40 AM in reply to: missyw2you |
Extreme Veteran 3025   Maryland | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. I think that attitude comes from how hard it has become to qualify for Kona. They work very hard to get there and are somewhat understandably frustrated that people who maybe (in their eyes) haven't worked as hard do get to go. You should ask this person (people) what they think about the executive slots and the celebrity slots if you really want to see fireworks. |
| 2014-04-07 9:41 AM in reply to: missyw2you |
Expert 2355 Madison, Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by missyw2you Has anyone else run into other triathletes that think the lottery is wrong? That the lottery steals spots from harder working athletes who are trying to earn their spot at worlds? I always thought of triathlon and triathletes as this welcoming community. That despite differences in abilities, part of the sport was that pros and amateurs alike race on the same course. Triathlon was started by a group of regular guys, why is it that it's unfair to allow "average" people to participate in the most iconic event? I keep coming across this. And I find it to be really disheartening. Don't go to the island. That is where the real elitism comes out. At the same time you meet some of the most happy, exited, and selfless triathletes. It can be a weird mix. |
| 2014-04-07 9:43 AM in reply to: missyw2you |
Pro 4528 Norwalk, Connecticut | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. its different at the pointy end of the field. Having seen the front middle and back, the level of douchebaggery and drugs increases at the front. There are some very very grounded, clean and friendly FOP'ers, we have multiple here, but this is only a small sample of whats really out there. Whenever you take a large sample of "A" personality uber competitive people, you will get people who think the average Joe/Jane do not belong, and have the win at all costs mindset. Just a fact of triathlon life. |
| 2014-04-07 9:47 AM in reply to: missyw2you |
| over a barrier | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. I think the world championship race should be contended by folks who have qualified at regional qualifiers. I don't make the rules though. |
| 2014-04-07 9:51 AM in reply to: Rudedog55 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by Rudedog55 its different at the pointy end of the field. Having seen the front middle and back, the level of douchebaggery and drugs increases at the front. There are some very very grounded, clean and friendly FOP'ers, we have multiple here, but this is only a small sample of whats really out there. Whenever you take a large sample of "A" personality uber competitive people, you will get people who think the average Joe/Jane do not belong, and have the win at all costs mindset. Just a fact of triathlon life. In what way? And.....do you have anything to back up the drug comment? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm interestedin what you have seen that causes you to make those comments. |
| 2014-04-07 9:53 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Rudedog55 its different at the pointy end of the field. Having seen the front middle and back, the level of douchebaggery and drugs increases at the front. There are some very very grounded, clean and friendly FOP'ers, we have multiple here, but this is only a small sample of whats really out there. Whenever you take a large sample of "A" personality uber competitive people, you will get people who think the average Joe/Jane do not belong, and have the win at all costs mindset. Just a fact of triathlon life. In what way? And.....do you have anything to back up the drug comment? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm interestedin what you have seen that causes you to make those comments. LB, I think we can cut the crap here, we all know what your son is on.
His bike, busting his arse 6 hours a day.
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| 2014-04-07 9:56 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Rudedog55 its different at the pointy end of the field. Having seen the front middle and back, the level of douchebaggery and drugs increases at the front. There are some very very grounded, clean and friendly FOP'ers, we have multiple here, but this is only a small sample of whats really out there. Whenever you take a large sample of "A" personality uber competitive people, you will get people who think the average Joe/Jane do not belong, and have the win at all costs mindset. Just a fact of triathlon life. In what way? And.....do you have anything to back up the drug comment? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm interestedin what you have seen that causes you to make those comments. LB, I think we can cut the crap here, we all know what your son is on.
His bike, busting his arse 6 hours a day.
My kid LOVES Lance and watches reruns of his biggest rides over and over on the trainer. |
| 2014-04-07 9:57 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 4528 Norwalk, Connecticut | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Rudedog55 its different at the pointy end of the field. Having seen the front middle and back, the level of douchebaggery and drugs increases at the front. There are some very very grounded, clean and friendly FOP'ers, we have multiple here, but this is only a small sample of whats really out there. Whenever you take a large sample of "A" personality uber competitive people, you will get people who think the average Joe/Jane do not belong, and have the win at all costs mindset. Just a fact of triathlon life. In what way? And.....do you have anything to back up the drug comment? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm interestedin what you have seen that causes you to make those comments. so you are not arguing with the douchebaggery comment?? |
| 2014-04-07 10:01 AM in reply to: missyw2you |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by missyw2you Has anyone else run into other triathletes that think the lottery is wrong? That the lottery steals spots from harder working athletes who are trying to earn their spot at worlds? I always thought of triathlon and triathletes as this welcoming community. That despite differences in abilities, part of the sport was that pros and amateurs alike race on the same course. Triathlon was started by a group of regular guys, why is it that it's unfair to allow "average" people to participate in the most iconic event? I keep coming across this. And I find it to be really disheartening. Don't be disheartened. Just because a few people are very vocal about something doesn't mean that the majority of triathletes are that way. For the most part triathletes are an incredibly welcoming and inclusive group. I suspect some people with the idea that the lottery is wrong/flawed/outdated would be welcoming, helpful and friendly to you, or me, or any beginner at any race other than Kona. They just believe that Kona is the world championship and that everyone who is there should have qualified. Of course, there might be a few who are just jerks. If you get a large enough group of people together there will always be a couple that aren't that nice. As my parents would tell me, "that's life, Jason." The other thing you will find is that this attitude is more pervasive among people who are right on the edge of qualifying. They (or a family member or a friend) are so close to qualifying and they are disheartened that they haven't made it to the big dance yet, while people who have not worked nearly as hard or long (at least in their minds) as them are getting a "free pass" to Kona. I should tell you that I have been to Kona as a lottery winner. It was one of the cooler experiences of my life. I had a great time and I found, almost universally, the people who were there racing had no issues with me being there as a lottery participant. Of course it is easy to feel that way when you are there. If they were one spot away from getting a Kona slot at their last race they might not have been nearly so magnaminous. Since going to Kona it has been my triathlon goal to go back, only as a qualifier. I don't buy a lottery slot any more. I had my chance and don't feel like it would be fair to go a second time if my name was drawn out of the hat. Someone else should have the fabulous experience that I did. I don't have any bitterness as a guy who is close, but not there yet, for the lottery folks. But again, I have already been there. Just a long winded way of saying it is not such a big deal. Some people will be mean. I ignore those people if they are being mean to me and confront them if they are being mean to others. Life is short  |
| 2014-04-07 10:02 AM in reply to: missyw2you |
| Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Disheartening? Why? Just people expressing their opinion on the matter. Don't let it affect you. You should be heartened by the fact that the lottery continues despite the whining. You win! |
| 2014-04-07 10:03 AM in reply to: Rudedog55 |
Pro 4528 Norwalk, Connecticut | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. but small sample, my doctor telling me how many men come in asking for Testosterone that don't need it, whom are athletes. You do not need a scientific study to see times drop across all age groups consistently and only attribute it to better work ethic or nutrition, i certainly do not. I don't need to be an alchemist to see whats going on. And i am not alone in my opinion. Left brain, you have been here and in this sport long enough to not be blind to the obvious. When they start testing all age groups consistently you will see what transpires, until then, there are cheaters and douchbags at all levels, and if someone doesn't believe that they really should vacate their fantasy world. On a related question, do you disagree?? |
| 2014-04-07 10:04 AM in reply to: missyw2you |
| 631 | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. As far PED at the age group amateur level I am will to bet that there is more usage at the FOP of the large regional races that the BOP at you local sprint. |
| 2014-04-07 10:06 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Rudedog55 its different at the pointy end of the field. Having seen the front middle and back, the level of douchebaggery and drugs increases at the front. There are some very very grounded, clean and friendly FOP'ers, we have multiple here, but this is only a small sample of whats really out there. Whenever you take a large sample of "A" personality uber competitive people, you will get people who think the average Joe/Jane do not belong, and have the win at all costs mindset. Just a fact of triathlon life. In what way? And.....do you have anything to back up the drug comment? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm interestedin what you have seen that causes you to make those comments. there was a study showing 1 in 7 doped in IM http://www.irishtriathlon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/ironman-tr... |
| 2014-04-07 10:09 AM in reply to: #4977674 |
New user 84 | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Thanks for the perspective everyone, especially Jason - you clearly have some insight having been there. |
| 2014-04-07 10:17 AM in reply to: Rudedog55 |
Master 3205 ann arbor, michigan | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by Rudedog55 its different at the pointy end of the field. Having seen the front middle and back, the level of douchebaggery and drugs increases at the front. There are some very very grounded, clean and friendly FOP'ers, we have multiple here, but this is only a small sample of whats really out there. Whenever you take a large sample of "A" personality uber competitive people, you will get people who think the average Joe/Jane do not belong, and have the win at all costs mindset. Just a fact of triathlon life. I think your statement applies to the pointy end of the field at pretty much any competitive athletic event; running, triathlon, bike racing, curling, tennis, racketball, etc. People who devote the kind of time it takes to be truly competitive at an event are by definition more serious, more focused, more "in the zone" than people who are happily bringing up the back of the race. It is just a completely different mindset. Both kinds of people are important to the survival of our sport. I don't condone people being jerks and I truly believe that the majority of racers at the front of a race are not. Your characterization of the seriousness of someone who has really committed as a DB may be misplaced. I have no idea about the drugs and I choose to not spend one second of time thinking about that aspect of AG triathlon. Maybe my reply means that I am one of the DBs that you speak of and I just don't know it yet Alas. |
| 2014-04-07 10:17 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
| Member 763 | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by dmiller5 I think that attitude comes from how hard it has become to qualify for Kona. They work very hard to get there and are somewhat understandably frustrated that people who maybe (in their eyes) haven't worked as hard do get to go. You should ask this person (people) what they think about the executive slots and the celebrity slots if you really want to see fireworks. X2 - this is right on, at least from my experience. To be honest, I find there is 'elitism' at every race that I've done - I guess that some folks are just like that. That said, the vast majority of the tri racers that I've met are really great folks. We could start a whole conversation about how Kona became so popular and how the lottery athletes play into all of it, but let's leave that for another day. Suffice ir to say, the type "A" crowd will be that way because they're type "A" and they earned a spot a Kona. No bid deal. If you lottery in (and that's the only way I'll make Kona), then you're on the same start line as they are. That's the way WTC runs things, so don't let them get you down. If they can't handle it, then perhaps they need therapy. I just ask two things of these folks...(1) let me run and enjoy my race (which is admittedly slower then theirs so that's usually not an issue) and (2) please leave me some pizza. If they do that, we're cool. Good luck. And remember 99.99% of tri folks are really great, so don't let the Kona elitist minority ruin it for you. |
| 2014-04-07 10:18 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Very much a personal opinion Kona is an iconic event with history and tradition. That includes lottery winners. I don't think Kona should be considered the world championship. ITU should take control of world championship and it should be 100% by performance/qualification. Challenge will eventually create a championship event and the owner has made it clear it won't be Roth because he wants Roth to have a special place for ALL triathletes. I think this is the correct perspective. Edited by marcag 2014-04-07 10:27 AM |
| 2014-04-07 10:19 AM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. |
| 2014-04-07 10:20 AM in reply to: Rudedog55 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by Rudedog55 Originally posted by Left Brain so you are not arguing with the douchebaggery comment?? Originally posted by Rudedog55 its different at the pointy end of the field. Having seen the front middle and back, the level of douchebaggery and drugs increases at the front. There are some very very grounded, clean and friendly FOP'ers, we have multiple here, but this is only a small sample of whats really out there. Whenever you take a large sample of "A" personality uber competitive people, you will get people who think the average Joe/Jane do not belong, and have the win at all costs mindset. Just a fact of triathlon life. In what way? And.....do you have anything to back up the drug comment? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm interestedin what you have seen that causes you to make those comments. I might end up arguing, but I'm not yet.....I'm interested in hearing how you came to that conclusion. I spend quite a bit of time around some really fast people....I would never be able to make as broad a comment as you did. Most of then are really good guys/gals. |
| 2014-04-07 10:23 AM in reply to: missyw2you |
Champion 10668 Tacoma, Washington | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Just throwing something out there, not that I believe it at all: Has it ever occurred to anyone that the "everyone belongs" attitude at a COMPETITIVE SPORTING EVENT is wrong? |
| 2014-04-07 10:25 AM in reply to: wannabefaster |
Pro 4528 Norwalk, Connecticut | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by wannabefaster Originally posted by Rudedog55 its different at the pointy end of the field. Having seen the front middle and back, the level of douchebaggery and drugs increases at the front. There are some very very grounded, clean and friendly FOP'ers, we have multiple here, but this is only a small sample of whats really out there. Whenever you take a large sample of "A" personality uber competitive people, you will get people who think the average Joe/Jane do not belong, and have the win at all costs mindset. Just a fact of triathlon life. I think your statement applies to the pointy end of the field at pretty much any competitive athletic event; running, triathlon, bike racing, curling, tennis, racketball, etc. People who devote the kind of time it takes to be truly competitive at an event are by definition more serious, more focused, more "in the zone" than people who are happily bringing up the back of the race. It is just a completely different mindset. Both kinds of people are important to the survival of our sport. I don't condone people being jerks and I truly believe that the majority of racers at the front of a race are not. Your characterization of the seriousness of someone who has really committed as a DB may be misplaced. I have no idea about the drugs and I choose to not spend one second of time thinking about that aspect of AG triathlon. Maybe my reply means that I am one of the DBs that you speak of and I just don't know it yet Alas. No, i like you, we have had great correspondence in the past. And i personally think that the lottery for Kona is an awesome thing. I loved reading your report. I love reading the stories of the people who got in because of it and had a life changing experience. For me those are priceless pieces of literature. We all do this for separate reasons. And i agree, its not just triathlon, it is across a broad spectrum of competitive endurance sports, but this is a Tri forum, so i singled us out. |
| 2014-04-07 10:33 AM in reply to: Left Brain |
Pro 4528 Norwalk, Connecticut | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by Rudedog55 Originally posted by Left Brain so you are not arguing with the douchebaggery comment?? Originally posted by Rudedog55 its different at the pointy end of the field. Having seen the front middle and back, the level of douchebaggery and drugs increases at the front. There are some very very grounded, clean and friendly FOP'ers, we have multiple here, but this is only a small sample of whats really out there. Whenever you take a large sample of "A" personality uber competitive people, you will get people who think the average Joe/Jane do not belong, and have the win at all costs mindset. Just a fact of triathlon life. In what way? And.....do you have anything to back up the drug comment? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm interestedin what you have seen that causes you to make those comments. I might end up arguing, but I'm not yet.....I'm interested in hearing how you came to that conclusion. I spend quite a bit of time around some really fast people....I would never be able to make as broad a comment as you did. Most of then are really good guys/gals. Personal experience from racing here in the Northeast for the last 6 years. From training experience, socializing with athletes that race all distances to in race comments while i'm competing. We have all been associated with really fast people, and if you race enough you spend a fair amount of time with them. There are lots of great and fast people, there are also a large number of people who aren't so nice and friendly. But all in all its just and opinion, my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions. |
| 2014-04-07 10:40 AM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. Originally posted by Rudedog55 Originally posted by Left Brain Personal experience from racing here in the Northeast for the last 6 years. From training experience, socializing with athletes that race all distances to in race comments while i'm competing. We have all been associated with really fast people, and if you race enough you spend a fair amount of time with them. There are lots of great and fast people, there are also a large number of people who aren't so nice and friendly. But all in all its just and opinion, my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions. Originally posted by Rudedog55 Originally posted by Left Brain so you are not arguing with the douchebaggery comment?? Originally posted by Rudedog55 its different at the pointy end of the field. Having seen the front middle and back, the level of douchebaggery and drugs increases at the front. There are some very very grounded, clean and friendly FOP'ers, we have multiple here, but this is only a small sample of whats really out there. Whenever you take a large sample of "A" personality uber competitive people, you will get people who think the average Joe/Jane do not belong, and have the win at all costs mindset. Just a fact of triathlon life. In what way? And.....do you have anything to back up the drug comment? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm interestedin what you have seen that causes you to make those comments. I might end up arguing, but I'm not yet.....I'm interested in hearing how you came to that conclusion. I spend quite a bit of time around some really fast people....I would never be able to make as broad a comment as you did. Most of then are really good guys/gals. That makes sense. I guess I looked at your initial comment as more sweeping than it actually was. Fast people have been invaluable for my family.....and helpful beyond belief. In fact, I can say that we've not really ran across anyone in the pointy end who has been a DB to us our or kids. Granted, almost everyone is willing to help out kids in the sport, so that's probably part of it. As for drugs......I don't have a clue how may AG'ers dope. I find it pretty incredible that any of them would, because at that level, who cares? There isn't much payoff for the ultimate damage you may do to your body. Obvioiusly, I'm wrong and quite a few actually do, but I don't think I care.
Edited by Left Brain 2014-04-07 10:41 AM |
| 2014-04-07 10:41 AM in reply to: missyw2you |
Champion 7036 Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Kona elitism. I personally have never run into anyone who had strong feelings against the lottery. Even lottery winners have to validate their entries. If they have the talent and do the work required to finish Kona under the cutoffs, then more power to them. The vast majority of the pros and elites I've had the chance to spend time with have all been pretty nice folks. I think there's generally a level of mutual respect between triathletes for anyone who puts out the effort and finishes the course, regardless of their level of talent. Without trying to sound too cynical, if someone feels offended because they lost "their" spot to a lottery winner, then the fact is that they probably weren't good enough anyway. Mark |
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