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In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan
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 2014-11-10 10:01 AM |
New user 560   Key West |  Subject: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training PlanIf you are looking for a Marathon Training Plan, I highly recommend this plan. I ran two marathons this year and used the Higdon Advanced I Plan for the Mary I ran in June. The Higdon Plan was a good plan to get you to the finish line, but Hansons got me to a BQ time. In fairness, there were some differences in the marathons. The two main differences were that the one in June was very hilly (San Diego) and a bit warmer. The Mary I ran on Saturday was flatter (Savannah) and it was cooler. But the difference in finishing times was significant (39 minutes in 5 months). I attribute most of that to the training plan. It was a tough plan, but really paid off and the lack of a run longer than 16 miles (that is all I could do under 3 hours in training) did not hurt me at all in completing the distance. One of the easiest finishes I have ever had in a Mary. So, not only did I BQ (by just under 5 minutes) and run under the time predicted by McMillan by 8 minutes, but also won first place in my age group. Woot Woot. For me, this was the plan. |
| 2014-11-10 10:15 AM in reply to: topolina |
| Oakville | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan I've done 6 half marathons now and have recently thought about tackling a full . The Hansons plan was highly recommended by my physiotherapist. I understand that the plan is built around scheduling the long runs on the day after the harder efforts. I've read a few testimonials that have said training on tired legs better prepared them for the final 6 mile "death march". Was this your experience? |
| 2014-11-10 10:26 AM in reply to: 0 |
| New user 560 Key West | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Yes, the Plan emphasizes cumulative fatigue, so it is tough. When you get to your last day in the training cycle (6 days) you have to run a speed or strength workout and your long runs (max of about 3 hours) are run on the 4th day of the cycle after a longer tempo run and two medium to longer runs. I didn't have the death march experience at all. I am not saying I wasn't tired and starting to stiffen up a bit (I'm 60 after all), but I only slowed slightly in the last two miles and never contemplated walking. It was awesome. Edited by topolina 2014-11-10 10:27 AM |
| 2014-11-10 10:43 AM in reply to: topolina |
Not a Coach 11473   Media, PA | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Congrats on your BQ! In addition to the faster (flatter) course and cooler conditions, and the different plan, you also did 5 months of additional training (i.e., regardless of what plan, you did 'more' training). Endurance training is a cumulative endeavor. Prior training contributes to current results--i.e., results are not driven by just the current race plan. People are often too quick to give credit to a specific plan versus recognizing this simple training fact. Not saying the Hansons plan isn't good or didn't help you, specifically. Just encouraging people to take a broader perspective when considering your endorsement (or anyone's endorsement of a specific training plan as 'the difference' for them). Again, congrats on a great race! |
| 2014-11-10 10:45 AM in reply to: topolina |
Expert 1439 Tallahassee | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Congrats on BQ'ing! I read Hanson's book and loved it. I was following it until 5 weeks out when I got injuread (something like PF) but I ran my 1st mary and felt pretty good afterward. I didn't BQ and wasn't trying to, but it did make for a fun run. It made sense to me, more than a lot of other plans I read. |
| 2014-11-10 10:51 AM in reply to: JohnnyKay |
| New user 560 Key West | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by JohnnyKay Congrats on your BQ! In addition to the faster (flatter) course and cooler conditions, and the different plan, you also did 5 months of additional training (i.e., regardless of what plan, you did 'more' training). Endurance training is a cumulative endeavor. Prior training contributes to current results--i.e., results are not driven by just the current race plan. People are often too quick to give credit to a specific plan versus recognizing this simple training fact. Not saying the Hansons plan isn't good or didn't help you, specifically. Just encouraging people to take a broader perspective when considering your endorsement (or anyone's endorsement of a specific training plan as 'the difference' for them). Again, congrats on a great race! Thank you and I understand what you are saying, but I have been a runner for 34 years, so I didn't make the endorsement lightly. Even though I did indeed have 5 more months, it was just 5 months on top of all of those years. Granted they haven't always been marathon training years, but I honestly don't think I would have cut that 39 minutes and run under my BQ qualifying time had I not followed this Plan. Could I do it on my own, yes, I did when I was in my 30's, but that I attribute to lots of running and racing and youth. Who knows. |
| 2014-11-10 11:05 AM in reply to: topolina |
Expert 3145 Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan If there's one thing I've gleamed from reading tons of reviews on Hanson's plan it's that it can work great for some runners and absolutely fail for others. Sounds like you were in the former category—congrats! I thrive on volume and firmly believe I'd run nowhere near my potential on a Hanson plan. |
| 2014-11-10 11:16 AM in reply to: thebigb |
| New user 560 Key West | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by thebigb If there's one thing I've gleamed from reading tons of reviews on Hanson's plan it's that it can work great for some runners and absolutely fail for others. Sounds like you were in the former category—congrats! I thrive on volume and firmly believe I'd run nowhere near my potential on a Hanson plan. Thank you. The Plan is higher mileage than the Higdon Plan, so that is partly why I tried it. Running in the high 50's and low 60's mileage is about my max I think at this age. Higdon was much lower mileage and too much (for me) emphasis on the one longer run, less on speed/tempo, which made it harder for me to recover rather than having higher mileage spread throughout the week like Hansons does. You are right though, it definitely isn't one size fits all and just a recommendation for anyone who actually wants to use a plan, or a different plan than one they used before that they felt didn't work. |
| 2014-11-10 2:11 PM in reply to: topolina |
| 928 | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Congratulations! A good friend of mine has also done really well on the plan and BQ'ed several times-- the training gave him a PB of about 20 minutes. Unfortunately the plan didn't work well for me this spring, because I don't do well training on tired legs. I constantly felt like I was just hanging in there-- and I fought some nagging pre-injuries at the end. I ended up missing a few key weeks of workouts, and then failed miserably in my marathon. But I will acknowledge that I maybe just wasn't ready for the training this spring. Before I did triathlon stuff, I used to run 6-7 days/week while marathon training. But it had been 2.5 years since my last marathon with some injury issues in there, so I was sort of starting from scratch. That said, I don't know how one can train for triathlon and also follow the Hanson plan. I gave up all cycling and swimming while I was training for my marathon using Hanson. Right now I am finding it better for MY body to mix up the training, so I will continue to do some cycling and swimming when I'm training for my next marathon. |
| 2014-11-11 9:07 AM in reply to: jennifer_runs |
| 19 | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan I have had two spectacular marathons using Hansons, so I whole-heartedly concur with your assessment. Congrats on your BQ! Both times I used Hansons I BQed, last year by over 19 minutes in my age category, this year by almost 31 minutes (yeah, I got faster!). Just finishing up the 1/2M plan, and it goes out for a test race on Saturday. The principle of training on tired legs is no hype in prep for a marathon. Never ran more than 16 miles on a long run, but was more than adequately prepared for the rigors of those final miles. GREAT PLAN. |
| 2014-11-11 9:35 AM in reply to: jennifer_runs |
| New user 560 Key West | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by jennifer_runs Congratulations! A good friend of mine has also done really well on the plan and BQ'ed several times-- the training gave him a PB of about 20 minutes. Unfortunately the plan didn't work well for me this spring, because I don't do well training on tired legs. I constantly felt like I was just hanging in there-- and I fought some nagging pre-injuries at the end. I ended up missing a few key weeks of workouts, and then failed miserably in my marathon. But I will acknowledge that I maybe just wasn't ready for the training this spring. Before I did triathlon stuff, I used to run 6-7 days/week while marathon training. But it had been 2.5 years since my last marathon with some injury issues in there, so I was sort of starting from scratch. That said, I don't know how one can train for triathlon and also follow the Hanson plan. I gave up all cycling and swimming while I was training for my marathon using Hanson. Right now I am finding it better for MY body to mix up the training, so I will continue to do some cycling and swimming when I'm training for my next marathon. I totally agree with your assessment about TRI training and marathon training using Hansons, or any other serious training for that matter. There is just no room for cross training, so I just let my TRI training go during this period since this was my focus. Just got back in the pool today and it felt good. Not as excited to get back on the bike (not my favorite leg of the TRI) but will do it as I have a TRI in less than a month. Good to see that others had some real success with the program. Very impressive improvements. |
| 2014-11-11 10:44 AM in reply to: topolina |
Expert 3145 Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by topolina Originally posted by thebigb Thank you. The Plan is higher mileage than the Higdon Plan, so that is partly why I tried it. Running in the high 50's and low 60's mileage is about my max I think at this age. Higdon was much lower mileage and too much (for me) emphasis on the one longer run, less on speed/tempo, which made it harder for me to recover rather than having higher mileage spread throughout the week like Hansons does. You are right though, it definitely isn't one size fits all and just a recommendation for anyone who actually wants to use a plan, or a different plan than one they used before that they felt didn't work. If there's one thing I've gleamed from reading tons of reviews on Hanson's plan it's that it can work great for some runners and absolutely fail for others. Sounds like you were in the former category—congrats! I thrive on volume and firmly believe I'd run nowhere near my potential on a Hanson plan.
Yeah, I've never been a huge fan of Higdon plans, especially for someone looking to PR or BQ; definitely a bigger proponent of Daniels or Pfitz when it comes to that. I think Hanson can really shine for individuals that have some experience and volume behind them but have been a little light on quality, ala Higdon. |
| 2014-11-11 3:50 PM in reply to: topolina |
Regular 606 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by topolina Originally posted by JohnnyKay Congrats on your BQ! In addition to the faster (flatter) course and cooler conditions, and the different plan, you also did 5 months of additional training (i.e., regardless of what plan, you did 'more' training). Endurance training is a cumulative endeavor. Prior training contributes to current results--i.e., results are not driven by just the current race plan. People are often too quick to give credit to a specific plan versus recognizing this simple training fact. Not saying the Hansons plan isn't good or didn't help you, specifically. Just encouraging people to take a broader perspective when considering your endorsement (or anyone's endorsement of a specific training plan as 'the difference' for them). Again, congrats on a great race! Thank you and I understand what you are saying, but I have been a runner for 34 years, so I didn't make the endorsement lightly. Even though I did indeed have 5 more months, it was just 5 months on top of all of those years. Granted they haven't always been marathon training years, but I honestly don't think I would have cut that 39 minutes and run under my BQ qualifying time had I not followed this Plan. Could I do it on my own, yes, I did when I was in my 30's, but that I attribute to lots of running and racing and youth. Who knows. Sorry, I still don't buy it. 34 years of running and Higdon got you to a 4:30, but only 5 months of Hansons got you a 3:50? There is much more to this story than a plan change: cooler and flatter course running-only plan 5 more months of training (as you said, 5 months on a 34 year career is a small fraction) Those three factors are potentially huge, but probably still leave a lot of that 39 minutes. Were these your first marathons (either in the last few years or ever)? If not, have you been doing many races that last much longer than 2-3 hours in that similar, recent time frame? If no to both, then I would wager it was probably a matter of better race execution. Example, my first marathon was a 4:40 in January 2012, then my second was 3:50 less than two months later. There was no change in training, just poor race day decisions in January that were not repeated in March. I do not mean to put down the Hanson's plan (and certainly not your huge accomplishment!). But from what you have written here, I don't credit your PR to them nearly as much as I would straight to you. |
| 2014-11-12 6:16 AM in reply to: dfroelich |
| New user 560 Key West | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by dfroelich Originally posted by topolina Originally posted by JohnnyKay Congrats on your BQ! In addition to the faster (flatter) course and cooler conditions, and the different plan, you also did 5 months of additional training (i.e., regardless of what plan, you did 'more' training). Endurance training is a cumulative endeavor. Prior training contributes to current results--i.e., results are not driven by just the current race plan. People are often too quick to give credit to a specific plan versus recognizing this simple training fact. Not saying the Hansons plan isn't good or didn't help you, specifically. Just encouraging people to take a broader perspective when considering your endorsement (or anyone's endorsement of a specific training plan as 'the difference' for them). Again, congrats on a great race! Thank you and I understand what you are saying, but I have been a runner for 34 years, so I didn't make the endorsement lightly. Even though I did indeed have 5 more months, it was just 5 months on top of all of those years. Granted they haven't always been marathon training years, but I honestly don't think I would have cut that 39 minutes and run under my BQ qualifying time had I not followed this Plan. Could I do it on my own, yes, I did when I was in my 30's, but that I attribute to lots of running and racing and youth. Who knows. Sorry, I still don't buy it. 34 years of running and Higdon got you to a 4:30, but only 5 months of Hansons got you a 3:50? There is much more to this story than a plan change: cooler and flatter course running-only plan 5 more months of training (as you said, 5 months on a 34 year career is a small fraction) Those three factors are potentially huge, but probably still leave a lot of that 39 minutes. Were these your first marathons (either in the last few years or ever)? If not, have you been doing many races that last much longer than 2-3 hours in that similar, recent time frame? If no to both, then I would wager it was probably a matter of better race execution. Example, my first marathon was a 4:40 in January 2012, then my second was 3:50 less than two months later. There was no change in training, just poor race day decisions in January that were not repeated in March. I do not mean to put down the Hanson's plan (and certainly not your huge accomplishment!). But from what you have written here, I don't credit your PR to them nearly as much as I would straight to you. I'm not sure where the times you quoted came from but just to correct those, I went from a 4:59 in June to a 4:20 this past weekend. I realize that it is still a significant improvement, regardless of the actual time, and I also realize it wasn't just the training plan, but in my opinion, that was the major difference. These were not my first marathons, but they were my first marathons in over 23 years. I have been running races from 13.1 and below in the 23 year interim as well as tri's. I felt great in June until late in the race, at about 18 and then my legs gave out. I just don't think I had enough mileage with the training plan I was using and the hills were significant (I train in a super flat place.) I really didn't go out any faster in the June marathon than in this one. One thing I did this time was take Gu every 45 min to an hour (I brought my own) versus only getting one Gu in June on the course. By the way, my fastest marathon ever was a 3:45 when I was in my 30's, so this isn't technically an overall PR, but it is for age 60 :-) |
| 2014-11-12 8:13 AM in reply to: thebigb |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by thebigb If there's one thing I've gleamed from reading tons of reviews on Hanson's plan it's that it can work great for some runners and absolutely fail for others. Sounds like you were in the former category—congrats! I thrive on volume and firmly believe I'd run nowhere near my potential on a Hanson plan. For clarification, Hanson's has marathon training plans that average 50 to 75 miles per week all the way up to 85 to 105 miles per week. http://hansonscoachingservices.com/coaching-items/marathon-training... The difference isn't the volume with Hanson's. It's more the structure of the week and the progression to the marathon race. Full disclosure, I haven't raced a full marathon, but have used their HM plan the last couple of years. Additionally, I have read their book. They are challenging plans that get you ready to race your best. Agree with other thoughts that it doesn't mesh well with triathlon training. That's a given in my book. Want to train for a run race where you run your fastest? Your swim and bike will suffer. That's a choice you have ot make. |
| 2014-11-12 10:09 AM in reply to: 0 |
Expert 3145 Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by trisuppo Originally posted by thebigb For clarification, Hanson's has marathon training plans that average 50 to 75 miles per week all the way up to 85 to 105 miles per week. http://hansonscoachingservices.com/coaching-items/marathon-training... The difference isn't the volume with Hanson's. It's more the structure of the week and the progression to the marathon race. Full disclosure, I haven't raced a full marathon, but have used their HM plan the last couple of years. Additionally, I have read their book. They are challenging plans that get you ready to race your best. Agree with other thoughts that it doesn't mesh well with triathlon training. That's a given in my book. Want to train for a run race where you run your fastest? Your swim and bike will suffer. That's a choice you have ot make. If there's one thing I've gleamed from reading tons of reviews on Hanson's plan it's that it can work great for some runners and absolutely fail for others. Sounds like you were in the former category—congrats! I thrive on volume and firmly believe I'd run nowhere near my potential on a Hanson plan.
Ah, learned something new. I didn't realize they had so much volume in some of their offerings, probably because talk always revolves around the lack of a long run. Wouldn't mind having a look at their 85-100mpw plan.
Just noticed this disclaimer: NOTE: These are based on the Hanson training philosophies HOWEVER these are not the traditional programs. So it would appear the traditional Hanson programs are not high volume like the 85-100. Head scratcher. Edited by thebigb 2014-11-12 10:11 AM |
| 2014-11-12 10:19 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 928 | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by thebigb Originally posted by trisuppo Originally posted by thebigb For clarification, Hanson's has marathon training plans that average 50 to 75 miles per week all the way up to 85 to 105 miles per week. http://hansonscoachingservices.com/coaching-items/marathon-training... The difference isn't the volume with Hanson's. It's more the structure of the week and the progression to the marathon race. Full disclosure, I haven't raced a full marathon, but have used their HM plan the last couple of years. Additionally, I have read their book. They are challenging plans that get you ready to race your best. Agree with other thoughts that it doesn't mesh well with triathlon training. That's a given in my book. Want to train for a run race where you run your fastest? Your swim and bike will suffer. That's a choice you have ot make. If there's one thing I've gleamed from reading tons of reviews on Hanson's plan it's that it can work great for some runners and absolutely fail for others. Sounds like you were in the former category—congrats! I thrive on volume and firmly believe I'd run nowhere near my potential on a Hanson plan.
Ah, learned something new. I didn't realize they had so much volume in some of their offerings, probably because talk always revolves around the lack of a long run. Wouldn't mind having a look at their 85-100mpw plan.
Just noticed this disclaimer: NOTE: These are based on the Hanson training philosophies HOWEVER these are not the traditional programs. So it would appear the traditional Hanson programs are not high volume like the 85-100. Head scratcher. "Traditional" Hanson is what they do in their elite program, but they have a modified program for recreational runners (out of a running store in Detroit) and the book plans are based on that. It's true that the recreational plans are modifications of the plans they use for elites, because they acknowledge that most people won't be running volume that high. But they also do custom coaching and you can do higher volume plans with them if that's what you want-- but those plans aren't in the book. Part of their training philosophy is similar to Daniels- they say that the long run shouldn't be more than 25% of the total weekly volume. Therefore, they took what they thought would be a typical marathoner's weekly max (about 64 miles) and made the long run 16 miles. If you are doing more than 64 miles per week, then you can do the long run longer. They also tell you in the book how to increase the weekly mileage within the structure of the book plan. One thing I did NOT like about the beginner plan-- the one I started with-- was that it starts at really low mileage (about 20 miles per week) but then jumps up very quickly in week 6 (it jumps by 15 miles in one week). It seems that they tried to adjust the plan TOO far down for "beginners". Edited by jennifer_runs 2014-11-12 10:21 AM |
| 2014-11-12 10:29 AM in reply to: jennifer_runs |
Expert 3145 Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by jennifer_runs Originally posted by thebigb "Traditional" Hanson is what they do in their elite program, but they have a modified program for recreational runners (out of a running store in Detroit) and the book plans are based on that. It's true that the recreational plans are modifications of the plans they use for elites, because they acknowledge that most people won't be running volume that high. But they also do custom coaching and you can do higher volume plans with them if that's what you want-- but those plans aren't in the book. Part of their training philosophy is similar to Daniels- they say that the long run shouldn't be more than 25% of the total weekly volume. Therefore, they took what they thought would be a typical marathoner's weekly max (about 64 miles) and made the long run 16 miles. If you are doing more than 64 miles per week, then you can do the long run longer. They also tell you in the book how to increase the weekly mileage within the structure of the book plan. One thing I did NOT like about the beginner plan-- the one I started with-- was that it starts at really low mileage (about 20 miles per week) but then jumps up very quickly in week 6 (it jumps by 15 miles in one week). It seems that they tried to adjust the plan TOO far down for "beginners". Originally posted by trisuppo Originally posted by thebigb For clarification, Hanson's has marathon training plans that average 50 to 75 miles per week all the way up to 85 to 105 miles per week. http://hansonscoachingservices.com/coaching-items/marathon-training... The difference isn't the volume with Hanson's. It's more the structure of the week and the progression to the marathon race. Full disclosure, I haven't raced a full marathon, but have used their HM plan the last couple of years. Additionally, I have read their book. They are challenging plans that get you ready to race your best. Agree with other thoughts that it doesn't mesh well with triathlon training. That's a given in my book. Want to train for a run race where you run your fastest? Your swim and bike will suffer. That's a choice you have ot make. If there's one thing I've gleamed from reading tons of reviews on Hanson's plan it's that it can work great for some runners and absolutely fail for others. Sounds like you were in the former category—congrats! I thrive on volume and firmly believe I'd run nowhere near my potential on a Hanson plan.
Ah, learned something new. I didn't realize they had so much volume in some of their offerings, probably because talk always revolves around the lack of a long run. Wouldn't mind having a look at their 85-100mpw plan.
Just noticed this disclaimer: NOTE: These are based on the Hanson training philosophies HOWEVER these are not the traditional programs. So it would appear the traditional Hanson programs are not high volume like the 85-100. Head scratcher. Ah ok, that makes total sense and I'm definitely in the 25% camp as well. |
| 2014-11-12 11:44 AM in reply to: topolina |
Regular 606 Portland, Oregon | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by topolina I'm not sure where the times you quoted came from but just to correct those, I went from a 4:59 in June to a 4:20 this past weekend. I realize that it is still a significant improvement, regardless of the actual time, and I also realize it wasn't just the training plan, but in my opinion, that was the major difference. These were not my first marathons, but they were my first marathons in over 23 years. I have been running races from 13.1 and below in the 23 year interim as well as tri's. I felt great in June until late in the race, at about 18 and then my legs gave out. I just don't think I had enough mileage with the training plan I was using and the hills were significant (I train in a super flat place.) I really didn't go out any faster in the June marathon than in this one. One thing I did this time was take Gu every 45 min to an hour (I brought my own) versus only getting one Gu in June on the course. By the way, my fastest marathon ever was a 3:45 when I was in my 30's, so this isn't technically an overall PR, but it is for age 60 :-) I apologize! I assumed you were a fellow and arrived at those numbers given your BQ -5. While I know that the Hanson's plan is great for a whole lot of people, I imagine any plan that got you running more injury-free miles would have made that difference. (BTW, I am jealous. I have yet to race 26 miles without having the wheels come off!) Perhaps the GU made a good difference as well. My first meltdown marathon was fueled by 20 oz. of gatorade and 2 bananas, oops. |
| 2014-11-12 1:56 PM in reply to: thebigb |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by thebigb Originally posted by jennifer_runs Originally posted by thebigb "Traditional" Hanson is what they do in their elite program, but they have a modified program for recreational runners (out of a running store in Detroit) and the book plans are based on that. It's true that the recreational plans are modifications of the plans they use for elites, because they acknowledge that most people won't be running volume that high. But they also do custom coaching and you can do higher volume plans with them if that's what you want-- but those plans aren't in the book. Part of their training philosophy is similar to Daniels- they say that the long run shouldn't be more than 25% of the total weekly volume. Therefore, they took what they thought would be a typical marathoner's weekly max (about 64 miles) and made the long run 16 miles. If you are doing more than 64 miles per week, then you can do the long run longer. They also tell you in the book how to increase the weekly mileage within the structure of the book plan. One thing I did NOT like about the beginner plan-- the one I started with-- was that it starts at really low mileage (about 20 miles per week) but then jumps up very quickly in week 6 (it jumps by 15 miles in one week). It seems that they tried to adjust the plan TOO far down for "beginners". Originally posted by trisuppo Originally posted by thebigb For clarification, Hanson's has marathon training plans that average 50 to 75 miles per week all the way up to 85 to 105 miles per week. http://hansonscoachingservices.com/coaching-items/marathon-training... The difference isn't the volume with Hanson's. It's more the structure of the week and the progression to the marathon race. Full disclosure, I haven't raced a full marathon, but have used their HM plan the last couple of years. Additionally, I have read their book. They are challenging plans that get you ready to race your best. Agree with other thoughts that it doesn't mesh well with triathlon training. That's a given in my book. Want to train for a run race where you run your fastest? Your swim and bike will suffer. That's a choice you have ot make. If there's one thing I've gleamed from reading tons of reviews on Hanson's plan it's that it can work great for some runners and absolutely fail for others. Sounds like you were in the former category—congrats! I thrive on volume and firmly believe I'd run nowhere near my potential on a Hanson plan.
Ah, learned something new. I didn't realize they had so much volume in some of their offerings, probably because talk always revolves around the lack of a long run. Wouldn't mind having a look at their 85-100mpw plan.
Just noticed this disclaimer: NOTE: These are based on the Hanson training philosophies HOWEVER these are not the traditional programs. So it would appear the traditional Hanson programs are not high volume like the 85-100. Head scratcher. Ah ok, that makes total sense and I'm definitely in the 25% camp as well. Looking at my ebook version of the Hanson Marathon Methos as I type. Weekly mileage for the advanced plan averages around 50 MPW with a peak of 63 in week 15 (of 18 weeks). The main runs for that week are a strength workout consisting of 3x2 miles (pace bit faster than HM pace) with 800M recoveries (includes ~2 mile warm up and 2 mile cooldown); a 10 mile tempo run @ Marathon pace (2 mile WU and CD added on as well); and a 16 mile llong run. My honest opinion is that for the large majority of us, a training plan that gets us to run consistently, that layers in appropriate levels of speed and tempo, and that allows us to remian healthy will result in large gains in performance. |
| 2014-11-12 3:36 PM in reply to: dfroelich |
| New user 560 Key West | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by dfroelich Originally posted by topolina I'm not sure where the times you quoted came from but just to correct those, I went from a 4:59 in June to a 4:20 this past weekend. I realize that it is still a significant improvement, regardless of the actual time, and I also realize it wasn't just the training plan, but in my opinion, that was the major difference. These were not my first marathons, but they were my first marathons in over 23 years. I have been running races from 13.1 and below in the 23 year interim as well as tri's. I felt great in June until late in the race, at about 18 and then my legs gave out. I just don't think I had enough mileage with the training plan I was using and the hills were significant (I train in a super flat place.) I really didn't go out any faster in the June marathon than in this one. One thing I did this time was take Gu every 45 min to an hour (I brought my own) versus only getting one Gu in June on the course. By the way, my fastest marathon ever was a 3:45 when I was in my 30's, so this isn't technically an overall PR, but it is for age 60 :-) I apologize! I assumed you were a fellow and arrived at those numbers given your BQ -5. While I know that the Hanson's plan is great for a whole lot of people, I imagine any plan that got you running more injury-free miles would have made that difference. (BTW, I am jealous. I have yet to race 26 miles without having the wheels come off!) Perhaps the GU made a good difference as well. My first meltdown marathon was fueled by 20 oz. of gatorade and 2 bananas, oops. No problem, maybe one of these days I'll put a photo up. Been on the Site for 2 or 3 years and it still shows me as a newbie too. Oh well. You are right that more base miles, along with the right combination of speed, tempo, etc., is what makes it happen. I think the GU helped too, but my first few marathons back in the dark ages, we had nothing but water to fuel us, and we still got it done. Imagine that. Jennifer said it best about the Hansons' Plans. They have elite runners and custom plans for higher mileage, but I just used their highest mileage mere mortal plan as I am not sure going to much over 60 miles a week will be cost effective for my body. |
| 2014-11-12 3:40 PM in reply to: trisuppo |
Expert 3145 Scottsdale, AZ | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by trisuppo Originally posted by thebigb Looking at my ebook version of the Hanson Marathon Methos as I type. Weekly mileage for the advanced plan averages around 50 MPW with a peak of 63 in week 15 (of 18 weeks). The main runs for that week are a strength workout consisting of 3x2 miles (pace bit faster than HM pace) with 800M recoveries (includes ~2 mile warm up and 2 mile cooldown); a 10 mile tempo run @ Marathon pace (2 mile WU and CD added on as well); and a 16 mile llong run. My honest opinion is that for the large majority of us, a training plan that gets us to run consistently, that layers in appropriate levels of speed and tempo, and that allows us to remian healthy will result in large gains in performance. Originally posted by jennifer_runs Originally posted by thebigb "Traditional" Hanson is what they do in their elite program, but they have a modified program for recreational runners (out of a running store in Detroit) and the book plans are based on that. It's true that the recreational plans are modifications of the plans they use for elites, because they acknowledge that most people won't be running volume that high. But they also do custom coaching and you can do higher volume plans with them if that's what you want-- but those plans aren't in the book. Part of their training philosophy is similar to Daniels- they say that the long run shouldn't be more than 25% of the total weekly volume. Therefore, they took what they thought would be a typical marathoner's weekly max (about 64 miles) and made the long run 16 miles. If you are doing more than 64 miles per week, then you can do the long run longer. They also tell you in the book how to increase the weekly mileage within the structure of the book plan. One thing I did NOT like about the beginner plan-- the one I started with-- was that it starts at really low mileage (about 20 miles per week) but then jumps up very quickly in week 6 (it jumps by 15 miles in one week). It seems that they tried to adjust the plan TOO far down for "beginners". Originally posted by trisuppo Originally posted by thebigb For clarification, Hanson's has marathon training plans that average 50 to 75 miles per week all the way up to 85 to 105 miles per week. http://hansonscoachingservices.com/coaching-items/marathon-training... The difference isn't the volume with Hanson's. It's more the structure of the week and the progression to the marathon race. Full disclosure, I haven't raced a full marathon, but have used their HM plan the last couple of years. Additionally, I have read their book. They are challenging plans that get you ready to race your best. Agree with other thoughts that it doesn't mesh well with triathlon training. That's a given in my book. Want to train for a run race where you run your fastest? Your swim and bike will suffer. That's a choice you have ot make. If there's one thing I've gleamed from reading tons of reviews on Hanson's plan it's that it can work great for some runners and absolutely fail for others. Sounds like you were in the former category—congrats! I thrive on volume and firmly believe I'd run nowhere near my potential on a Hanson plan.
Ah, learned something new. I didn't realize they had so much volume in some of their offerings, probably because talk always revolves around the lack of a long run. Wouldn't mind having a look at their 85-100mpw plan.
Just noticed this disclaimer: NOTE: These are based on the Hanson training philosophies HOWEVER these are not the traditional programs. So it would appear the traditional Hanson programs are not high volume like the 85-100. Head scratcher. Ah ok, that makes total sense and I'm definitely in the 25% camp as well. Yeah I dug in some over on letsrun and in reality, the plans don't sound too majorly different. tempo session weekly strength session weekly (5k-10k paced intervals) long run of no more than 25% overall volume. Not terribly different than Pfitz or JD but enough subtle differences. The 80-100 mpw runner is still going to be nailing 20-22 mile long runs even with Hansons. |
| 2014-11-12 4:29 PM in reply to: thebigb |
Champion 19812 MA | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Many if not most of the athletes on this site are beginners or relative beginners, and running consistently is key to improving. The plan you are discussing does not fit beginners. Glad it worked well for you (to OP), but for first timer Marathon runners, look elsewhere for a training plan. |
| 2014-11-12 7:51 PM in reply to: KathyG |
Master 3022 | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Originally posted by KathyG Many if not most of the athletes on this site are beginners or relative beginners, and running consistently is key to improving. The plan you are discussing does not fit beginners. Glad it worked well for you (to OP), but for first timer Marathon runners, look elsewhere for a training plan. Hanson's does offer a beginner plan and I am confident that they would agree the key is consistency. The OP was clear that they followed an Advanced plan. |
| 2014-11-13 5:41 AM in reply to: Scott71 |
| 19 | Subject: RE: In Praise of Hansons Advanced Marathon Training Plan Scott71, your background is similar to mine, vis-a-vis the half marathons. Used Hansons at age 64 (running my first ever 26.2 mile distance!) and turned in a 3:50 and change. Never hit the talked about wall, but my legs felt just a tad wobbly between miles 22-24 before I got a second wind and finished fairly strong. The 2nd time through the program was where I thought the magic was. At age 65, ran a 3:39:01! Strong the whole way, passing lots of people between miles 18-26, despite again not running more than 16 miles in training as a long run. However, I will not lie, it is a tough, demanding program. And there is no free lunch. While your weekend won't come with a 20-22 mile running requirement, you'll be hit with mid-week workouts that require a lot of time. I am a much better runner having done Hansons, as the gains made in speed and stamina have stayed with me. |
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