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Frequent Open water swimming
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 2015-06-18 10:35 AM |
 439   nashville, Tennessee |  Subject: Frequent Open water swimmingA couple of people in the tri club I'm in are trying to get people interested in doing a regular(maybe once a week) open water swim. It would be in a small lake. It would be 3-5 people at the most. I don't really want to do that. Here's my thoughts and I'm wondering if you would agree or disagree. I think it is good to get a few(maybe 2 or 3) open water swims in before a race just to see what its like to be in open water. But I don't have a desire to do it all the time. I guess just because I feel like its not the safest thing. I want to do all my swim training in a pool and then get a couple of open water swims in before race day. Does anybody else feel this way? I realize some of you will say, "The more you swim in open water the better you will be in open water." But I'm just wondering if you really get enough benefit from frequent open water swims, to outweight the risks involved? What are your opinions about regular open water swims? Necessary or not? |
| 2015-06-18 10:40 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Master 2802  Minnetonka, Minnesota Bronze member | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming I think you can go harder in the pool and much easier to do specific sets and work on form. The safety issue isn't a factor for me. A few OWS before a race or the occasional one to break up the pool monotony is nice and helpful to me. |
| 2015-06-18 10:49 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
| Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Depends on too many factors to say yes or no, not the least of which is ability. But if you don't enjoy it, don't do it |
| 2015-06-18 11:16 AM in reply to: 0 |
| 74 Post Falls, Idaho | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Originally posted by mchadcota2 But I'm just wondering if you really get enough benefit from frequent open water swims, to outweight the risks involved? What are your opinions about regular open water swims? Necessary or not? I don't think regular OW swims are necessary. At least a little exposure before race day will obviously help with a few things one can learn about open water swimming through experience, like sighting and holding a line, rough water and breathing, congestion/contact, general anxiety, etc. But once someone has a little experience dealing with that then I think regular OW swimming is just a choice made for those who enjoy it, not because there's a significant tactical advantage to frequent practice. If you want to do more but the risk is bothering you, you can mitigate the little risk by using something like the Kiefer SaferSwimmer pull buoy for visibility and emergency flotation. Edited by rframe 2015-06-18 11:17 AM (620048-safe-swimmer-buoy.jpg) Attachments ---------------- 620048-safe-swimmer-buoy.jpg (126KB - 49 downloads) |
| 2015-06-18 11:42 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Member 120 | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming I am in the camp of doing a handful before a race so as not to forget completely how it's done. I can swim in the lake half an hour from home, or I can swim at the Y ten minutes from home. Usually that 40 minute difference has a huge effect on my day. I enjoy swimming at the lake but I swim a lot more, and a lot more consistently, when I do it in the pool. Don't even ask me about how many days I drove out to the lake last summer and didn't get in on account of rough water from offshore breezes that I couldn't predict from home.  |
| 2015-06-18 11:48 AM in reply to: carriecook |
| 439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Yeah the time constraints are a factor too. I just don't know how much better it can make you. I guess you can kinda compare it to biking on the trainer. I do 99 % of my biking on trainer. I don't think it would make me any faster if I biked on the road regularly. Maybe I'm wrong. But I think they're are some pros that do the same. |
| 2015-06-18 12:00 PM in reply to: ejshowers |
Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Originally posted by ejshowers I think you can go harder in the pool and much easier to do specific sets and work on form. The safety issue isn't a factor for me. A few OWS before a race or the occasional one to break up the pool monotony is nice and helpful to me. The only thing I'll add is he's talking about a group OWS. which can help you get better at drafting if you have people of similar ability. |
| 2015-06-18 12:15 PM in reply to: 0 |
| Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Originally posted by spudone Originally posted by ejshowers I think you can go harder in the pool and much easier to do specific sets and work on form. The safety issue isn't a factor for me. A few OWS before a race or the occasional one to break up the pool monotony is nice and helpful to me. The only thing I'll add is he's talking about a group OWS. which can help you get better at drafting if you have people of similar ability. True, and you don't have to go easy in OW. Try hanging on the feet of someone 3-4 seconds per hundred faster than you for two miles. Edited by ChrisM 2015-06-18 12:15 PM |
| 2015-06-18 12:16 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Originally posted by ChrisMDepends on too many factors to say yes or no, not the least of which is ability. But if you don't enjoy it, don't do it X2 |
| 2015-06-18 12:36 PM in reply to: TriMyBest |
Master 4118 Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming As Chris said, there are lots of factors that are to the individual. If you're generally fine OWS then do as you want. For me, especially in my first few seasons it was a critical part of my swim training. As an adult onset swimmer I would be fine in a pool and then panic in the open water. I swam frequently in the lake and my confidence grew - i swam when it was choppy, calm, clear, murky, with others or with just one or two other people. You can practice sighting which is a pretty good skill that is hard to get in the pool. Practicing drafting and being around others is always good. Anway, I am at the point now where I am much more comfortable and I really don't need that much OWS practice and would do as you propose (in fact just did for my HIM). Best of luck in your training. |
| 2015-06-18 12:43 PM in reply to: juniperjen |
| 643 | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming It helps a lot for jitters. 2 years ago the local tri club here used to have OWS with ~20 people. We have since been kicked out of the lake for whatever reason. I didn't go every week but I managed to get in 10+ OWS swims that yer. It was great and I did fine during my races. This year I had one OWS before the race and I freaked out. The people, waves, and OWS experience got to me. I did another tri a week later and I still freaked out but only for ~10 minutes and then things clicked and I swam normally and had good form. As long as you have a wet suit, it's pretty hard to go down and that solo swim buoy is something to look at too. |
| 2015-06-18 2:51 PM in reply to: Blastman |
| 439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming All good points. I think I may try to join every couple weeks and see if it happens to help. I used to panic almost every time I raced in open water, no matter the distance. I've gotten to where I usually don't panic, but I go very easy in order to avoid being winded at all so that I don't panic. Maybe open water practice will help that. Thanks for all your input. |
| 2015-06-18 3:09 PM in reply to: ejshowers |
Extreme Veteran 2261 Ridgeland, Mississippi | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Originally posted by ejshowers I think you can go harder in the pool and much easier to do specific sets and work on form. The safety issue isn't a factor for me. A few OWS before a race or the occasional one to break up the pool monotony is nice and helpful to me. I agree with this. I'll go with the pool where I can do a controlled workout over OW any day. Doubly so if the upcoming race is one I've done before. |
| 2015-06-18 3:14 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
| Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Originally posted by mchadcota2 All good points. I think I may try to join every couple weeks and see if it happens to help. I used to panic almost every time I raced in open water, no matter the distance. I've gotten to where I usually don't panic, but I go very easy in order to avoid being winded at all so that I don't panic. Maybe open water practice will help that. Thanks for all your input. Well that factoid - "usually don't panic" wasn't included in the original post. If that is the case, I agree with your approach of a regular OW swim until you are at the "I don't panic" stage in OW. The OP sounded more like it was about safety and effectiveness. As to safety, you're way more likely to get hurt driving to /from a lake to swim with 5 friends (about as controlled as you can get outside of a pool) than actually swimming. |
| 2015-06-18 3:29 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Originally posted by ChrisM Well that factoid - "usually don't panic" wasn't included in the original post. If that is the case, I agree with your approach of a regular OW swim until you are at the "I don't panic" stage in OW. The OP sounded more like it was about safety and effectiveness. As to safety, you're way more likely to get hurt driving to /from a lake to swim with 5 friends (about as controlled as you can get outside of a pool) than actually swimming. Agreed - if you aren't in the camp of I don't panic in OW, you owe it to yourself and every other athlete in the race to spend enough time in OW to get there. There are a multitude of reasons that someone may need to be pulled out of the water on race day. I panicked because I didn't spend enough time in OW to be comfortable shouldn't be one. Shane |
| 2015-06-18 4:28 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Member 1004 | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming I agree that a few open water swims is enough if you're comfortable and confident but I must say that I'm shocked by the amount of people who prefer the pool. I'll take the fresh air, fresh water, open skies and easy access of the open water rather than the chlorinated, pee tainted, closed in, limited time frame pool any day. |
| 2015-06-18 4:42 PM in reply to: b2run |
| Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Originally posted by b2run I agree that a few open water swims is enough if you're comfortable and confident but I must say that I'm shocked by the amount of people who prefer the pool. I'll take the fresh air, fresh water, open skies and easy access of the open water rather than the chlorinated, pee tainted, closed in, limited time frame pool any day. this |
| 2015-06-18 4:59 PM in reply to: ChrisM |
| 439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Yeah I probably should have included that bit. But I don't panic because its open water, I panic because I remember the days I used to panic, and how bad that sucked, and how that would really screw up my race if I started panicking...as long as I just don't start panicking I will beat my competition, how bad would IT SUCK RIGHT NOW IF I STARTED PANICKING! OH CRAP I'M STARTING TO PANIC! CRAP WHERE'S A KAYAK! That's the thought process that leads to panic for me. I know its really weird. It's not about drowning or getting hurt or anything. |
| 2015-06-18 5:06 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Member 1083 | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming I think once a week of OWS will make you a stronger Open Water Swimmer. Yes you can work on more controlled things in a pool and I do 90% of my swimming in a pool because that's where the coach is. But I swim about once a week in open water. You can do drills in open water they work the same way in a lake or ocean as a pool. There are plenty of examples of people who make great progress in the pool but don't get better in open water. It's a different thing. The more you do it - the easier it should get. You'll be calmer, you won't sight every 4 strokes unless you really need to, there isn't a wall to rest on, there isn't a clock to see, the ground is icky, weeds, etc. Just my $.02 |
| 2015-06-18 5:06 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
| Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Originally posted by mchadcota2 Yeah I probably should have included that bit. But I don't panic because its open water, I panic because I remember the days I used to panic, and how bad that sucked, and how that would really screw up my race if I started panicking...as long as I just don't start panicking I will beat my competition, how bad would IT SUCK RIGHT NOW IF I STARTED PANICKING! OH CRAP I'M STARTING TO PANIC! CRAP WHERE'S A KAYAK! That's the thought process that leads to panic for me. I know its really weird. It's not about drowning or getting hurt or anything. I know the feeling, I was actually going to say that a history of panicking can actually lead to panic, even without a cause. I'm a fairly confident and strong swimmer and have done a lot of ocean swims. I had a medical issue during a tri in a friggin lake in 2008, that was a one time transient event, but i'd have to say that for about 4 years every time I swam OW i'd start thinking about this thing that had never happened before (and hasn't since). When sh&& happens in the water, it seems to stay with us longer, because the risks are greater, I guess. And panic doesn't discriminate. I felt the panic lake rise a little during Alcatraz last year when it very suddenly got very choppy. Was able to calm myself down while swimming and return to form, but panic often really has no reason or rationale, and once the cycle starts it takes conscious effort to stop it. |
| 2015-06-19 9:43 AM in reply to: ChrisM |
| 439 nashville, Tennessee | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Yes you never know when its going to hit and I have completed a 70.3, then turned around a few weeks later and panicked during a 1/4 mi swim. And the reason I panicked was because I was thinking, "I'm actually having a pretty good swim and should have a pretty good time. Hopefully when I look up I won't have very far to go and this will be one of my better swims. Oooh the end is a lot further than I thought. Crap, the only thing that can screw up my good swim is if I panic, so don't panic. Oh crap I have to rollover on my back." I met with the group and did an open water swim yesterday in the lake. I did 1000 yds. Now, with a wetsuit I could swim a million yards, but without it, 1000yds is more than I care to do. But while I was swimming I was having to deal with the feelings of, "Ooh I'm in the middle of the lake. There's nobody that can get to me right now and I'm a long way from the shore." Its a little unnerving. But I had to push through it so I actually think it will be beneficial for me to do this a few times. |
| 2015-06-19 12:12 PM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming I think they are very useful until you get a degree of confidence swimming in different conditions, which makes you much less likely to panic. Once you've gotten to that level, it's mainly a matter of enjoyment/preference/convenience and a few pre-race swims to review skills and boost confidence. I rarely get a chance to do OWS, except when on vacation and maybe a few times each summer when home in Oregon, but I don't find it seriously affects performance. I think I built my comfort level with open water during the two years I lived in Hawaii. That was almost two decades ago, but I swam probably 3-4 times a week in the ocean in all kinds of conditions (I don't recall ever getting in a pool in Hawaii!) and it built a base of skill and confidence that's served me well to this day. I'm not an adult-onset swimmier, but ocean swimming was completely new to me when I moved there, and I did go through some panic and discomfort, but mostly while clinging to my boogie board with surfing friends who laughed at me, not in a race situation. In the one case in recent years when I have come close to panic (not in a race, thank goodness), it was a combo of poor visibility, very cold water, and an improperly zipped wetsuit taking on water. I think in my case I would still benefit from more OWS in the kind of conditions I race in here in the PNW--cool to cold lake swims with a wetsuit. They're different from tropical ocean swims in temps, visibility, and "feel", particularly with the full wetsuit, which I really dislike and tend to avoid in favor of my sleeveless shorty if I can do so without cramping. Though I haven't had any issues with panic in races, I don't quite have the level of skill and confidence that I do with ocean swimming. My goal is to try to work in one lake OWS per week this summer. |
| 2015-06-19 5:57 PM in reply to: Hot Runner |
| 409 Durham, North Carolina | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming I do OWS because I enjoy them! My club in Miami did 3 OWS/week. Swimming in a pool is probably more effective for working on your technique though. If you hate OWS and only do them because you have to then I would avoid it except for those few training swims before a race. Most likely you are doing tri's for a fun way to exercise, so do whatever you enjoy more. |
| 2015-06-20 9:41 AM in reply to: mchadcota2 |
| 47 | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Although I'm new to this, for me it's a matter of convenience. Drive to the gym, maybe wait 1/2 hour for a lane to open up, and drive home; or walk 1/4 mile to the lake and get it in. Living in Michigan does have some advantages, as there are lakes and rivers almost everywhere. I do think, at least for a beginner, there's a big advantage to practicing in open water...it was too cold for me to do before I did my first tri, and it was the single biggest adjustment I had to make...there's a world of difference between the pool and open water for a newbie like me. I suppose after you've got some experience under your belt, this becomes less important. |
| 2015-06-20 10:00 PM in reply to: 0 |
Veteran 2297 Great White North | Subject: RE: Frequent Open water swimming Pool is way better for training. OWS for familiarization. Most of the best 10kOW swimmers are training in a 50m pool and not ow. Edited by simpsonbo 2015-06-20 10:01 PM |
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