Bike Position Critique
-
No new posts
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
|
2015-07-21 10:17 AM |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: Bike Position Critique Looking through the photos from this past weekend's race, besides being horrified by most of them as usual, the bike ones turned out ok as far as photographs go, but I'm a bit concerned about my aero position. I've been wanting to tweak it, but haven't got a picture to go off of. Please take a look and let me know what you think. I'm 5' 11" (and a half) and am riding a 54. I have all the spacers out of the handle bars (I'm sure there's a more fitting term, but you know what I mean) but I can still drop the pads down that my arms rest in. Also, it seems to me like the aero bars need to be farther forward, but I'm not sure. Anyway, any input would be helpful as it doesn't look like I'm as aero as I could be. Comfort wise, I'm totally comfortable in aero position as I currently have it and rarely, even on long rides, have the need to come up. For the IM I stayed in aero position probably 98% of the time. Thanks. (Aero1.JPG) (Aero2.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Aero1.JPG (121KB - 2 downloads) Aero2.JPG (122KB - 2 downloads) |
|
2015-07-21 10:22 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique its a bit hard to tell, but I might move your seat up, and forward a bit. |
2015-07-21 10:51 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Expert 1644 Oklahoma | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Take what I say with a grain of salt because I'm by no means an expert. I wear the same aero helmet as you and if I let it ride naturally on my head it looks much like yours. I was told by an ex professional cyclist that I should push the helmet back so more of my forehead is exposed and the tail rests on my back. That's what I've been doing for my races but I have no data to show that it is more aero. |
2015-07-21 12:13 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Champion 10668 Tacoma, Washington | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique First, love the wheel cover. As for the position, I've seen worse. Even on some very seasoned riders. If you're comfortable and can keep the position as much as you say, you're 99% of the way there. Arm angle relative to torso looks good, but I know my lower arms would be screaming at me right quick if I had to hold the extensions like that for long. Might look into some ski bend extensions to relieve some arm tension. Head position... Looks like you're still carrying some tension in the upper back, which is keeping the spine high, and thus your head. You're "turtling" pretty well given all that, so if you can relax the upper back some, let the spine drop downward between the shoulder blades, you could get your head a bit lower without affecting your ability to see up the road. Lastly, I'd say try dropping a spacer in front, and if that doesn't cause any back bowing, stay there. If so, try rotating the whole position forward around the BB. |
2015-07-21 12:21 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Member 1748 Exton, PA | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique I ride a Felt B-16 in a 54 and I'm 5'-9", when I was fitted I was borderline52 or 54. They started me on a 52 and did not like the fit and went to the 54. A friend of mine is 6'-0" and rides a Felt B-16 in a 56. So you are probably in the right range maybe borderline between the 54 and a 56. Probably only a fitter would be able to tell you if indeed the frame is the wrong size. It looks like your are sitting on the front of the saddle, not sure. It seems like you could move the aero bars out some and maybe lift the seat a hair. Overall it's not that bad, but depends on your comfort and flexability. Some people set their bikes up different for sprints/oly vs doing an IM. If your not sitting back on the saddle that alone might stretch you out enough that you don't want to change anything. |
2015-07-21 12:37 PM in reply to: EKH |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Originally posted by EKH Take what I say with a grain of salt because I'm by no means an expert. I wear the same aero helmet as you and if I let it ride naturally on my head it looks much like yours. I was told by an ex professional cyclist that I should push the helmet back so more of my forehead is exposed and the tail rests on my back. That's what I've been doing for my races but I have no data to show that it is more aero. I noticed that too. I'm going to try and mess with how it sits. |
|
2015-07-21 12:40 PM in reply to: mike761 |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Originally posted by mike761 I ride a Felt B-16 in a 54 and I'm 5'-9", when I was fitted I was borderline52 or 54. They started me on a 52 and did not like the fit and went to the 54. A friend of mine is 6'-0" and rides a Felt B-16 in a 56. So you are probably in the right range maybe borderline between the 54 and a 56. Probably only a fitter would be able to tell you if indeed the frame is the wrong size. It looks like your are sitting on the front of the saddle, not sure. It seems like you could move the aero bars out some and maybe lift the seat a hair. Overall it's not that bad, but depends on your comfort and flexability. Some people set their bikes up different for sprints/oly vs doing an IM. If your not sitting back on the saddle that alone might stretch you out enough that you don't want to change anything. I was a little concerned about the size. Using the old rule of thumb that you should be able to see the front hub.....well in waaaay past that, I can practically see the back of my tire. So that makes me think the bike might be small. But on the other hand, I have all the spacers out so that would infer a bike too big. It's almost like I need a longer, but not taller bike maybe? Although if sitting that far forward isn't an issue then I guess it's fine. |
2015-07-21 12:43 PM in reply to: briderdt |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Originally posted by briderdt First, love the wheel cover. As for the position, I've seen worse. Even on some very seasoned riders. If you're comfortable and can keep the position as much as you say, you're 99% of the way there. Arm angle relative to torso looks good, but I know my lower arms would be screaming at me right quick if I had to hold the extensions like that for long. Might look into some ski bend extensions to relieve some arm tension. Head position... Looks like you're still carrying some tension in the upper back, which is keeping the spine high, and thus your head. You're "turtling" pretty well given all that, so if you can relax the upper back some, let the spine drop downward between the shoulder blades, you could get your head a bit lower without affecting your ability to see up the road. Lastly, I'd say try dropping a spacer in front, and if that doesn't cause any back bowing, stay there. If so, try rotating the whole position forward around the BB. I think my hand is like that because I'm shifting. It doesn't normally rest like that. I was at the top of a bridge so I was shifting getting ready to go down the other side. I try to relax my shoulders and back but never hold it long for some reason. I'll try to remove a spacer in the arm pads. |
2015-07-21 12:54 PM in reply to: 0 |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Originally posted by 3mar I've been wanting to tweak it, but haven't got a picture to go off of. This pic is dark, but I spent a fair amount of time and money on this fit for my kid. Hopefully it helps you get some ideas. He can stay in this position forever and generates lots of power. You can easily see the difference in his back position and yours. You can also see that his torso is fully rested on his arms and that his upper arm and forearm are nearly, if not, 90 degrees. Also notice his hands relative to his arms because of the ski bend extensions. I think you can drop your arm pads and/or spacers quite a bit. (look where his elbows are relative to his hips compared to yours) After you do that you may need to move your seat forward. Basically you will be moving around the BB like was suggested.
Edited by Left Brain 2015-07-21 1:05 PM (trifit.png) Attachments ---------------- trifit.png (288KB - 2 downloads) |
2015-07-21 3:13 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by 3mar I've been wanting to tweak it, but haven't got a picture to go off of. This pic is dark, but I spent a fair amount of time and money on this fit for my kid. Hopefully it helps you get some ideas. He can stay in this position forever and generates lots of power. You can easily see the difference in his back position and yours. You can also see that his torso is fully rested on his arms and that his upper arm and forearm are nearly, if not, 90 degrees. Also notice his hands relative to his arms because of the ski bend extensions. I think you can drop your arm pads and/or spacers quite a bit. (look where his elbows are relative to his hips compared to yours) After you do that you may need to move your seat forward. Basically you will be moving around the BB like was suggested.
I was having a hard time seeing it but putting them side by side I see what you mean. It looks like I should maybe drop as much as two centimeters on the pads. (Capture.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Capture.JPG (37KB - 5 downloads) |
2015-07-21 3:24 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain I was having a hard time seeing it but putting them side by side I see what you mean. It looks like I should maybe drop as much as two centimeters on the pads. Originally posted by 3mar I've been wanting to tweak it, but haven't got a picture to go off of. This pic is dark, but I spent a fair amount of time and money on this fit for my kid. Hopefully it helps you get some ideas. He can stay in this position forever and generates lots of power. You can easily see the difference in his back position and yours. You can also see that his torso is fully rested on his arms and that his upper arm and forearm are nearly, if not, 90 degrees. Also notice his hands relative to his arms because of the ski bend extensions. I think you can drop your arm pads and/or spacers quite a bit. (look where his elbows are relative to his hips compared to yours) After you do that you may need to move your seat forward. Basically you will be moving around the BB like was suggested.
It doesn't really work like the lines you have drawn there when comparing those two positions. Your picture is not at a right angle. He is 6'4" and his bike is a 58. You are about 5 inches shorter and your bike is smaller. The distance at which the pictures were taken is not the same.....and on and on. All that picture can do is give you a relative idea of where you should be trying to get to. |
|
2015-07-21 3:30 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain I was having a hard time seeing it but putting them side by side I see what you mean. It looks like I should maybe drop as much as two centimeters on the pads. Originally posted by 3mar I've been wanting to tweak it, but haven't got a picture to go off of. This pic is dark, but I spent a fair amount of time and money on this fit for my kid. Hopefully it helps you get some ideas. He can stay in this position forever and generates lots of power. You can easily see the difference in his back position and yours. You can also see that his torso is fully rested on his arms and that his upper arm and forearm are nearly, if not, 90 degrees. Also notice his hands relative to his arms because of the ski bend extensions. I think you can drop your arm pads and/or spacers quite a bit. (look where his elbows are relative to his hips compared to yours) After you do that you may need to move your seat forward. Basically you will be moving around the BB like was suggested.
It doesn't really work like the lines you have drawn there when comparing those two positions. Your picture is not at a right angle. He is 6'4" and his bike is a 58. You are about 5 inches shorter and your bike is smaller. The distance at which the pictures were taken is not the same.....and on and on. All that picture can do is give you a relative idea of where you should be trying to get to. The intent was just to measure up the hip to elbows since our legs are at about the same angle. The other lines were just there for me to size the pictures relative to one another. Point is; I think I get it. One thing though, I look a lot more scrunched up and I'm not sure how to remedy that. |
2015-07-21 3:45 PM in reply to: 3mar |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain The intent was just to measure up the hip to elbows since our legs are at about the same angle. The other lines were just there for me to size the pictures relative to one another. Point is; I think I get it. One thing though, I look a lot more scrunched up and I'm not sure how to remedy that. Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain I was having a hard time seeing it but putting them side by side I see what you mean. It looks like I should maybe drop as much as two centimeters on the pads. Originally posted by 3mar I've been wanting to tweak it, but haven't got a picture to go off of. This pic is dark, but I spent a fair amount of time and money on this fit for my kid. Hopefully it helps you get some ideas. He can stay in this position forever and generates lots of power. You can easily see the difference in his back position and yours. You can also see that his torso is fully rested on his arms and that his upper arm and forearm are nearly, if not, 90 degrees. Also notice his hands relative to his arms because of the ski bend extensions. I think you can drop your arm pads and/or spacers quite a bit. (look where his elbows are relative to his hips compared to yours) After you do that you may need to move your seat forward. Basically you will be moving around the BB like was suggested.
It doesn't really work like the lines you have drawn there when comparing those two positions. Your picture is not at a right angle. He is 6'4" and his bike is a 58. You are about 5 inches shorter and your bike is smaller. The distance at which the pictures were taken is not the same.....and on and on. All that picture can do is give you a relative idea of where you should be trying to get to. I can't tell because the picture is angled, but perhaps a longer stem would help. Again, I can't tell because I can't tell how forward you actually are. I do agree that you are a bit tight, but lowering your arm pads/removing spacers out will help that to a degree, but it's hard to say how much. If you put your bike on a trainer and take a picture or two at right angles you can get some help from this board. There are plenty of people here who understand bike fit. If you REALLY want to get it right......find a good professional fitter in your area and get it dialed in. |
2015-07-21 4:12 PM in reply to: Left Brain |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Originally posted by Left Brain Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain The intent was just to measure up the hip to elbows since our legs are at about the same angle. The other lines were just there for me to size the pictures relative to one another. Point is; I think I get it. One thing though, I look a lot more scrunched up and I'm not sure how to remedy that. Originally posted by 3mar Originally posted by Left Brain I was having a hard time seeing it but putting them side by side I see what you mean. It looks like I should maybe drop as much as two centimeters on the pads. Originally posted by 3mar I've been wanting to tweak it, but haven't got a picture to go off of. This pic is dark, but I spent a fair amount of time and money on this fit for my kid. Hopefully it helps you get some ideas. He can stay in this position forever and generates lots of power. You can easily see the difference in his back position and yours. You can also see that his torso is fully rested on his arms and that his upper arm and forearm are nearly, if not, 90 degrees. Also notice his hands relative to his arms because of the ski bend extensions. I think you can drop your arm pads and/or spacers quite a bit. (look where his elbows are relative to his hips compared to yours) After you do that you may need to move your seat forward. Basically you will be moving around the BB like was suggested.
It doesn't really work like the lines you have drawn there when comparing those two positions. Your picture is not at a right angle. He is 6'4" and his bike is a 58. You are about 5 inches shorter and your bike is smaller. The distance at which the pictures were taken is not the same.....and on and on. All that picture can do is give you a relative idea of where you should be trying to get to. I can't tell because the picture is angled, but perhaps a longer stem would help. Again, I can't tell because I can't tell how forward you actually are. I do agree that you are a bit tight, but lowering your arm pads/removing spacers out will help that to a degree, but it's hard to say how much. If you put your bike on a trainer and take a picture or two at right angles you can get some help from this board. There are plenty of people here who understand bike fit. If you REALLY want to get it right......find a good professional fitter in your area and get it dialed in. Agreed. However I'm traveling quite a bit for work right now and if I decided to spend an entire day trekking up to Miami to get a bike fit on one of the days I'm home, something tells me my wife would find a place for my bike to fit...and it certainly wouldn't be comfortable. So for now, I'm going to just tweak on my own. |
2015-07-21 4:15 PM in reply to: 0 |
Extreme Veteran 5722 | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Originally posted by Left Brain If you REALLY want to get it right......find a good professional fitter in your area and get it dialed in. This is kind of true, but not completely Omar posted originally to figure out what is most aero. There is only one way to figure that out, it's testing. You can look at a bunch of videos and pictures, you can draw angles all over the place, unless you test you are guessing. Go to your retul dealer for a fit, you are mostly guessing. Fitting, with a fitter, by pictures, etc, will allow you to set yourself up using best practices which will generally lead to good comfort. And they are easy to test. You are comfortable, the fit is good. You have a sore back...tweek this and try...still hurts...tweek this and try. You will eventually get comfortable. Now hopefully you are comfortable while getting a little lower than this But Omar is well beyond that. But once you are reasonably low, you have to test. At one point dropping a cm may buy you 0 aero advantage and cost you power. Closing your elbows may slow you down. There is only one way to know. You have to test. You can buy a $500 bambino helmet and it will be slower than you $99 Giro A2. You can put a profile design aero bottle and it will negate your $2000 zipp disc (paging LB, paging LB). The visor on your helmet can be costing you 10 watts. Your jersey can be costing you 20. Removing that spacer, that will get you a whopping 3w. If you don't have the time or inclination, don't do it. But don't obsess about getting aero by pictures, you probably will waste your time. Unless you look like the guy above :-) Another reason to get a PM :-) Edited by marcag 2015-07-21 4:27 PM |
2015-07-21 5:21 PM in reply to: marcag |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Well......I'll have you know..... I FINALLY convinced the kid to ditch his "aero bottle" and straw......but he hates you. |
|
2015-07-21 6:35 PM in reply to: marcag |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Originally posted by marcag Originally posted by Left Brain If you REALLY want to get it right......find a good professional fitter in your area and get it dialed in. This is kind of true, but not completely Omar posted originally to figure out what is most aero. There is only one way to figure that out, it's testing. You can look at a bunch of videos and pictures, you can draw angles all over the place, unless you test you are guessing. Go to your retul dealer for a fit, you are mostly guessing. Fitting, with a fitter, by pictures, etc, will allow you to set yourself up using best practices which will generally lead to good comfort. And they are easy to test. You are comfortable, the fit is good. You have a sore back...tweek this and try...still hurts...tweek this and try. You will eventually get comfortable. Now hopefully you are comfortable while getting a little lower than this But Omar is well beyond that. But once you are reasonably low, you have to test. At one point dropping a cm may buy you 0 aero advantage and cost you power. Closing your elbows may slow you down. There is only one way to know. You have to test. You can buy a $500 bambino helmet and it will be slower than you $99 Giro A2. You can put a profile design aero bottle and it will negate your $2000 zipp disc (paging LB, paging LB). The visor on your helmet can be costing you 10 watts. Your jersey can be costing you 20. Removing that spacer, that will get you a whopping 3w. If you don't have the time or inclination, don't do it. But don't obsess about getting aero by pictures, you probably will waste your time. Unless you look like the guy above :-) Another reason to get a PM :-) I think I would go into some crazy euphoric trance only true nerds get if I had all the data a power meter could provide. I don't even know if I could handle it. You'd find me in some strange catatonic state drooling over an excel spreadsheet. |
2015-08-26 9:14 AM in reply to: 3mar |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique I was stuck on the trainer today due to some pretty strong thunderstorms so I had my wife take a couple of pictures. Hopefully this one is at a better angle to elicit some advice. Looking at it myself, I'm thinking my seat may have to come down a bit, but I'm not sure. I have been tweaking the position over the last couple of weeks and now have my pads as low as they go, and all spacers out. So the front end isn't going any lower on this bike. Any comments/recommendations? Comfort-wise, I'm fine and I'm riding as fast, or faster than before, but it just doesn't look like I can get as low as I should be. One other change is I pushed the pads and aero bars forward since I was a bit hunched up before. (Picture1.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Picture1.jpg (41KB - 2 downloads) |
2015-08-26 9:39 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Your saddle is way too high. Stand up with your bike shoes on and measure from the floor to your greater trochanter. The distance from your pedal to the saddle should be 96-100% of this measurement. As for going lower, get a stem with a positive angle and flip it over. Shane |
2015-08-26 9:50 AM in reply to: gsmacleod |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Originally posted by gsmacleod Your saddle is way too high. Stand up with your bike shoes on and measure from the floor to your greater trochanter. The distance from your pedal to the saddle should be 96-100% of this measurement. As for going lower, get a stem with a positive angle and flip it over. Shane Thanks Shane. Would something like this work? (Capture.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Capture.JPG (39KB - 2 downloads) |
2015-08-26 10:02 AM in reply to: 3mar |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique That stem would allow you to go lower, however as you adjust the angle, you're also changing reach so you want to be careful if you go that route. Shane |
|
2015-08-26 10:04 AM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 10668 Tacoma, Washington | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Dimension and Profile make stems with some pretty steep angles -- 25 degrees or more -- that will allow you to get MUCH lower if that's preferred. And I agree, seat is high. Your hammies will thank you. Edited by briderdt 2015-08-26 10:05 AM |
2015-08-26 10:16 AM in reply to: briderdt |
Master 10208 Northern IL | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique I've also liked the Specialized stems. They're fixed, but have shims that allow for a range of 8* in 2* increments. Some versions can reach down to -28*. |
2015-08-26 11:51 AM in reply to: brigby1 |
Veteran 721 Naptown, IN | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Ritchey has fixed length stems in -6, -17, and -25 in the C260 series too. |
2015-08-26 12:00 PM in reply to: 3mar |
1502 Katy, Texas | Subject: RE: Bike Position Critique Thanks guys. I ended up ordering a Ritchety adjustable stem. Since I don't know yet exactly where I want to be and I'd rather use the stem to adjust as I like having the pads as low as they are so my wrists don't bend as much on the aero bars. I've already lowered my seat and once the stem comes in I'll take some time to fiddle with my fit and check back. (Capture.JPG) Attachments ---------------- Capture.JPG (21KB - 2 downloads) |
|
| ||||
|
| |||
|
| |||
|
|