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2015-10-06 12:05 PM

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Subject: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?
Every time I do a wetsuit legal tri, I get more fed up with my wetsuit. First I had the issues of getting my legs out...cut the bottom 6" off and that is now ok. Then I've had the recurring issue of arm/tricep soreness and general restrictiveness in my arms and shoulders. Also the dang thing is so tight I couldn't get the sleeve off with my watch on. So I chopped a couple inches off the arms and i can now at least get my watch out. But swimming with it in the pool this morning (I have to wear it for about two weeks in the pool before a triathlon, so my shoulders and triceps get used to it) I'm just getting tired of it. Why all this effort? I'm about this close to chopping the arms off completely. I really don't even see much of a difference in my swimming. I did the same set this morning (5 x 100 m) that I did a week ago and my times were maybe 1-2 seconds faster. I was able to hold 1:14/100m last week and this week I was at 1:12-1:13 for each, but my arms hurt the whole time and one of the guys I swim with mentioned that I wasn't extending nearly as much as usual. I think the movement restriction and discomfort are outweighing the extra buoyancy and I just loath the thing. I really do. Will removing the sleeves really make any performance difference in regard to buoyancy? I'm thinking the reduced arm fatigue will make it worth it. Plus, I would love to chop those #($*($*# sleeves off....


2015-10-06 12:14 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

Are you getting your suit up high enough?  I know if you don't it's like stretching big rubber bands every time you take a stroke and will flat wear you out..  A lot/all of that can be alleviated with making sure your shuit is up high enough on your shoulders and in your armpit area.

2015-10-06 12:20 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Are you getting your suit up high enough?  I know if you don't it's like stretching big rubber bands every time you take a stroke and will flat wear you out..  A lot/all of that can be alleviated with making sure your shuit is up high enough on your shoulders and in your armpit area.




It's as high as I can possibly get it. I use copious amounts of tri glide on my shoulders and upper arms for that very reason. The sleeves are just really tight. In addition I've switched up my swimming routine over the last month or so and have noticed my shoulders getting bigger which is adding to the problem. It was probably border line too small when I bought it and that was when I was really just starting, so the more I have swim, the more tight it gets on my shoulders.
2015-10-06 12:25 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by Left Brain

Are you getting your suit up high enough?  I know if you don't it's like stretching big rubber bands every time you take a stroke and will flat wear you out..  A lot/all of that can be alleviated with making sure your shuit is up high enough on your shoulders and in your armpit area.

It's as high as I can possibly get it. I use copious amounts of tri glide on my shoulders and upper arms for that very reason. The sleeves are just really tight. In addition I've switched up my swimming routine over the last month or so and have noticed my shoulders getting bigger which is adding to the problem. It was probably border line too small when I bought it and that was when I was really just starting, so the more I have swim, the more tight it gets on my shoulders.

Buy a new one......your wife won't care.

2015-10-06 12:31 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by Left Brain

Are you getting your suit up high enough?  I know if you don't it's like stretching big rubber bands every time you take a stroke and will flat wear you out..  A lot/all of that can be alleviated with making sure your shuit is up high enough on your shoulders and in your armpit area.

It's as high as I can possibly get it. I use copious amounts of tri glide on my shoulders and upper arms for that very reason. The sleeves are just really tight. In addition I've switched up my swimming routine over the last month or so and have noticed my shoulders getting bigger which is adding to the problem. It was probably border line too small when I bought it and that was when I was really just starting, so the more I have swim, the more tight it gets on my shoulders.

Buy a new one......your wife won't care.




She actually won't, and that's why I have to be careful. We're moving right now and will be in a much larger house soon, every cent I spend on triathlon will come back to bite me when discussions of budgets come up for decorating....trust me, there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Besides, I have the Beach to Battleship half in two weeks, no time to go shopping.
2015-10-06 1:11 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

You are going through the tedious process of slowly inching it up higher and higher, starting with the legs, then the torso, then the arms?  Then repeat as long as neccessary to give your shoulders the room they need.  It takes me a good 10-15 mins to get mine on fully - just slowly working it up higher bit by bit.  I just keep at it until I can put my arms up straight over my head squeezing against my ears and not feel any restriction.

I've watched many people put them on (hey, I've got 10-15 mins to kill while I do mine) and very very few people take the time to do it right.  Unless it really just doesn't fit you properly, I bet you can get it to the point where it doesn't restrict you.



2015-10-06 1:15 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?
I am an ex-competitive swimmer; when looking at wetsuits a couple years back I hated any feeling of restriction of my arms or shoulders. I purchased a sleeveless wetsuit.

People will start chiming in about the full sleeves being faster and I'm sure they are, how much is the real question and is it worth it to you.

Is a full sleeve wet suite more buoyant? probably the difference is extremely small. So I think the real difference is when you have a sleeveless suite there is some additional drag around your arms/shoulders where you suit ends. Also there is a potential for the suite not to fit right and act as a parachute.

If your in the Pro field maybe it makes a difference, for me the sleeveless is more comfortable and its also a little cooler when doing races when the water temp is 77°.

BTW- that 1 to 2 seconds per 100 adds up when you get to HIM and IM.

2015-10-06 1:25 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?
Originally posted by axteraa

You are going through the tedious process of slowly inching it up higher and higher, starting with the legs, then the torso, then the arms?  Then repeat as long as neccessary to give your shoulders the room they need.  It takes me a good 10-15 mins to get mine on fully - just slowly working it up higher bit by bit.  I just keep at it until I can put my arms up straight over my head squeezing against my ears and not feel any restriction.

I've watched many people put them on (hey, I've got 10-15 mins to kill while I do mine) and very very few people take the time to do it right.  Unless it really just doesn't fit you properly, I bet you can get it to the point where it doesn't restrict you.




I have fought like heck with it on a number of occasions, for that very reason, but it could very well be the case. I have just never felt comfortable in it around my arms and it drives me nuts to have my arms restricted.

Is it worth it though? How much advantage does the sleeve give you to deal with all of that?
2015-10-06 1:26 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

Originally posted by axteraa

You are going through the tedious process of slowly inching it up higher and higher, starting with the legs, then the torso, then the arms?  Then repeat as long as neccessary to give your shoulders the room they need.  It takes me a good 10-15 mins to get mine on fully - just slowly working it up higher bit by bit.  I just keep at it until I can put my arms up straight over my head squeezing against my ears and not feel any restriction.

I've watched many people put them on (hey, I've got 10-15 mins to kill while I do mine) and very very few people take the time to do it right.  Unless it really just doesn't fit you properly, I bet you can get it to the point where it doesn't restrict you.

That's what I was talking about. 

2015-10-06 1:27 PM
in reply to: mike761

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?
Originally posted by mike761

I am an ex-competitive swimmer; when looking at wetsuits a couple years back I hated any feeling of restriction of my arms or shoulders. I purchased a sleeveless wetsuit.

People will start chiming in about the full sleeves being faster and I'm sure they are, how much is the real question and is it worth it to you.

Is a full sleeve wet suite more buoyant? probably the difference is extremely small. So I think the real difference is when you have a sleeveless suite there is some additional drag around your arms/shoulders where you suit ends. Also there is a potential for the suite not to fit right and act as a parachute.

If your in the Pro field maybe it makes a difference, for me the sleeveless is more comfortable and its also a little cooler when doing races when the water temp is 77°.

BTW- that 1 to 2 seconds per 100 adds up when you get to HIM and IM.




The 1-2 seconds was comparing with no wetsuit. I'm sure the difference between sleeves and no sleeves wouldn't be that high. Now that I read your post though, I'm wondering how much my DIY sleeveless and the most certainly jagged edge of the new shoulders would add drag....
2015-10-06 1:32 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by mike761 I am an ex-competitive swimmer; when looking at wetsuits a couple years back I hated any feeling of restriction of my arms or shoulders. I purchased a sleeveless wetsuit. People will start chiming in about the full sleeves being faster and I'm sure they are, how much is the real question and is it worth it to you. Is a full sleeve wet suite more buoyant? probably the difference is extremely small. So I think the real difference is when you have a sleeveless suite there is some additional drag around your arms/shoulders where you suit ends. Also there is a potential for the suite not to fit right and act as a parachute. If your in the Pro field maybe it makes a difference, for me the sleeveless is more comfortable and its also a little cooler when doing races when the water temp is 77°. BTW- that 1 to 2 seconds per 100 adds up when you get to HIM and IM.
The 1-2 seconds was comparing with no wetsuit. I'm sure the difference between sleeves and no sleeves wouldn't be that high. Now that I read your post though, I'm wondering how much my DIY sleeveless and the most certainly jagged edge of the new shoulders would add drag....

Don't cut your sleeves off.......that will end in a fiery crash for sure.



2015-10-06 1:38 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by mike761 I am an ex-competitive swimmer; when looking at wetsuits a couple years back I hated any feeling of restriction of my arms or shoulders. I purchased a sleeveless wetsuit. People will start chiming in about the full sleeves being faster and I'm sure they are, how much is the real question and is it worth it to you. Is a full sleeve wet suite more buoyant? probably the difference is extremely small. So I think the real difference is when you have a sleeveless suite there is some additional drag around your arms/shoulders where you suit ends. Also there is a potential for the suite not to fit right and act as a parachute. If your in the Pro field maybe it makes a difference, for me the sleeveless is more comfortable and its also a little cooler when doing races when the water temp is 77°. BTW- that 1 to 2 seconds per 100 adds up when you get to HIM and IM.
The 1-2 seconds was comparing with no wetsuit. I'm sure the difference between sleeves and no sleeves wouldn't be that high. Now that I read your post though, I'm wondering how much my DIY sleeveless and the most certainly jagged edge of the new shoulders would add drag....

Don't cut your sleeves off.......that will end in a fiery crash for sure.




arrrg....alright. I'll give it another try. I looked at the sizing chart and it should be in the right range for me. I'm 6' at 160 lbs and I have an SMT. Looking at the chart though, I would probably be better off with a M. If this doesn't work, maybe I'll make a shopping trip this weekend.



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2015-10-06 1:42 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by mike761 I am an ex-competitive swimmer; when looking at wetsuits a couple years back I hated any feeling of restriction of my arms or shoulders. I purchased a sleeveless wetsuit. People will start chiming in about the full sleeves being faster and I'm sure they are, how much is the real question and is it worth it to you. Is a full sleeve wet suite more buoyant? probably the difference is extremely small. So I think the real difference is when you have a sleeveless suite there is some additional drag around your arms/shoulders where you suit ends. Also there is a potential for the suite not to fit right and act as a parachute. If your in the Pro field maybe it makes a difference, for me the sleeveless is more comfortable and its also a little cooler when doing races when the water temp is 77°. BTW- that 1 to 2 seconds per 100 adds up when you get to HIM and IM.
The 1-2 seconds was comparing with no wetsuit. I'm sure the difference between sleeves and no sleeves wouldn't be that high. Now that I read your post though, I'm wondering how much my DIY sleeveless and the most certainly jagged edge of the new shoulders would add drag....

Don't cut your sleeves off.......that will end in a fiery crash for sure.

arrrg....alright. I'll give it another try. I looked at the sizing chart and it should be in the right range for me. I'm 6' at 160 lbs and I have an SMT. Looking at the chart though, I would probably be better off with a M. If this doesn't work, maybe I'll make a shopping trip this weekend.

Dude - Jr is 6'4" and 160......he wears a HUUB suit in size SMT.  I promise that suit is too small for him, but he likes them WAY up his legs and arms.  He has pretty broad shoulders from all the swimming.  I bet your problem is user error.

2015-10-06 2:17 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?
If you decide to get a new suit Roka is having a 50% off sale at the moment: http://www.rokasports.com/collections/end-of-season-sale
2015-10-06 2:52 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by mike761 I am an ex-competitive swimmer; when looking at wetsuits a couple years back I hated any feeling of restriction of my arms or shoulders. I purchased a sleeveless wetsuit. People will start chiming in about the full sleeves being faster and I'm sure they are, how much is the real question and is it worth it to you. Is a full sleeve wet suite more buoyant? probably the difference is extremely small. So I think the real difference is when you have a sleeveless suite there is some additional drag around your arms/shoulders where you suit ends. Also there is a potential for the suite not to fit right and act as a parachute. If your in the Pro field maybe it makes a difference, for me the sleeveless is more comfortable and its also a little cooler when doing races when the water temp is 77°. BTW- that 1 to 2 seconds per 100 adds up when you get to HIM and IM.
The 1-2 seconds was comparing with no wetsuit. I'm sure the difference between sleeves and no sleeves wouldn't be that high. Now that I read your post though, I'm wondering how much my DIY sleeveless and the most certainly jagged edge of the new shoulders would add drag....

Don't cut your sleeves off.......that will end in a fiery crash for sure.

arrrg....alright. I'll give it another try. I looked at the sizing chart and it should be in the right range for me. I'm 6' at 160 lbs and I have an SMT. Looking at the chart though, I would probably be better off with a M. If this doesn't work, maybe I'll make a shopping trip this weekend.

Dude - Jr is 6'4" and 160......he wears a HUUB suit in size SMT.  I promise that suit is too small for him, but he likes them WAY up his legs and arms.  He has pretty broad shoulders from all the swimming.  I bet your problem is user error.




Alright, I'll give it a shot. I swear though, I'm going sleeveless on my next one. Junior is also on the pointy end of the stick while I'm up on the fat part of the curve, so I just don't think it's worth the aggravation for me. But I'll try again later this week.
2015-10-06 2:55 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

I have swam in both a sleeved wetsuit and a sleeveless wetsuit and I love the sleeveless one the best. I cannot honestly say that I am faster in one vs. the other, but I do know I am more comfortable without sleeves. As others have said, if the shoulders/arms are tight, than there is most likely a fit problem and hacking up a suit will not fix that.

Even a sleeveless suit can add pressure to your shoulders if the fit is not right. it does take a minute to get the legs and crotch of the suit to get in the right position, but once it does, you should not feel any added pressure.

I love my sleeveless and I do not ever see me going back to a long sleeve suit.



2015-10-06 3:02 PM
in reply to: 0

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Oakville
Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

I'd be cautious about cutting the arms off a full sleeve.  I have both and the sleeveless has a fairly rigid seam at the arm opening which prevents the suit acting like a parachute.

If you cut the arms off a full sleeve right at the armpit, the elasticity of the suit may not be enough to hold it all together and you'll end up dragging a ton of water.

The advice I received when I bought my full sleeve - when you hold your arms straight out to the side at 90 degrees, the suit should cling to your armpits and there shouldn't be any draping or stretched material.

I always spend extra time to pull the sleeves up tight to my armpits. 

It also helps to have someone physically pull each side tight around your back before zipping up.

ETA to relieve tightness in the shoulders and back, see at the 2:45 mark of this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEH0bWMyDnU&feature=g-vrec



Edited by Scott71 2015-10-06 3:09 PM
2015-10-06 3:39 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

I'm going with the suit or brand does not fit you.  I had to try a couple different wetsuits to get one to fit right.  Every one I tried based on size guide was really uncomfortable in the shoulders and arms.  If you noticed your shoulders getting a bit broader lately from swimming I'd say you need to explore a better fit.  You're moving North right?  Sounds like another good reason to look.  Roka has a pretty good sale going on and I've heard good things from ex swimmers who wear them relating to fit.

2015-10-06 5:22 PM
in reply to: Goggles Pizzano

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?
My wetsuit struggle has been well chronicled in several threads on this site. I finally went sleeveless. I swim better because I am more comfortable. Torso/hip/thigh buoyancy isn't lost and the arms are constantly moving. I am faster because I am not fighting the discomfort of my tight sleeveless.
It's a Zoot Fusion 3.0 - the site and phone consult recommended large, I know my lats and quads and chest, so went XL. Can't always bide by the size recommendations unless you fit the perfect slim profile
2015-10-06 7:00 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

When I bought my 1st suit (Promotion wetsuit) I called them and discussed what was best as I could have gone into two sizes Did some measurements and called them back.  5'10" long torso (me) is not the same as 5'10" short torso so I ended up with a medium-long and it fit perfectly, was sleeveless however.  Last year I bought another wetsuit used in ML (forget the brand) but this time with sleeves and same thing, perfect fit but did experience some slight arm/shoulder stiffness but not too much.  I compensated some by not forcing my extension past the tightness.

Make sure you soak the suit a bit before use to make the material a bit more subtle.

And definitely pull it up all the way like you are giving yourself a wedgie (!) then work the torso up all the way to the shoulders. Pull the arms up too working from the wrist on up.

2015-10-07 6:53 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

I'm with the rest of folks that believe you're not putting on the suit properly.

I'm also a huge fan of Desoto's two piece wetsuit system.  Eliminates a lot of the guess work as to "do I have it on right?" and you can also mix and match sizes between the top and bottom.



2015-10-07 7:04 AM
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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

Your suit actually sounds too small to me. 

 

For most true beginner triathletes, I'd say 'you're not pulling it up enough', but you've been around long enough and are dedicated enough that I'd definitely believe you have pulled up the crotch as high as it will go and them some.

 

I had the same exact problem when I started triathlon - I was fitted by a very experienced triathlon store owner who was recommended, but he absolutely misjudged me, and fit me in way too small a wetsuit. I was a rookie at the time, so everyone was telling me it was on wrong, blah blah blah, so I stuck with it for  4months, but there was no improvement - mine was bad enough that I went from swimming 2 miles no problem in the pool to barely being able to finish 400 meters in open water with the wetsuit because my shoulders would wear out from fatigue. And you better believe I had that crotch pulled up so high that it was worse than superwedgie. I even had other folks check, and recheck the fit before swims.

 

I got so fed up that I switched to a sleeveless, and all of the problems were gone - instantly. A year later, I bought a fullsleeve suit in medium (not small), and it works just as well, so clearly my original wetsuit was too small.

 

I'd recommend you either go sleeveless or get a better fitting wetsuit - it'll relieve the shoulder fatigue completely. I only wear my wetsuit on race day now - and a swimmer with your ability should have no need to 'prewear' your suit for 2 weeks to get used to shoulder fatigue - that's a sign your suit is too small.



Edited by yazmaster 2015-10-07 7:05 AM
2015-10-07 7:25 AM
in reply to: GMAN 19030

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?
Originally posted by GMAN 19030

I'm with the rest of folks that believe you're not putting on the suit properly.

I'm also a huge fan of Desoto's two piece wetsuit system.  Eliminates a lot of the guess work as to "do I have it on right?" and you can also mix and match sizes between the top and bottom.




I have the T1 speed tube and top. I've only done 500yds in the suit, but I didn't get shoulder fatigue. The concept 5 top has 2mm material everywhere but the area where the pull occurs on the arms.....which are 5mm. I'm assuming the entire speed tube is 5mm, because I float like a cork in it.
2015-10-07 7:41 AM
in reply to: nc452010

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Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?

The Speedtube bottom is 5mm.  The Speedvest top is 2mm.

I have the T1 First Wave Bibjohn and Concept 5 long sleeve top.  I also have the Speedvest in case I want to have a sleeveless.

2015-10-07 7:43 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: How much do wetsuit sleeves really help?
Well the divide is certainly interesting. I think the suit just doesn't fit (becuase it has never been comfortable, and you would think at least once I'd have gotten it right...what do they say about broken clocks?), however, I am going to do my due diligence and for my next swim (Friday) I will give myself an atomic wedgie and pull the arms on the shoulders about and inch farther than I would think possible, and see how it goes. If nothing comes of it besides being able to hit the high notes in Bohemian Rapidity, and my shoulders still hurt, then I will either buy or rent a sleeveless for the race.
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