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2015-10-28 5:17 AM

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Subject: Time after HIM for an FTP test
I got a power meter during my taper for a HIM and therefore didn't do an FTP test. It's been about a week and a half since the race and I *feel* like I'm close to 100%. I realize recovery is pretty personal and I was pretty beat up after the race, so any rules of thumb for time before full recovery? I wouldn't want to do it too early and not have accurate results.


2015-10-28 5:33 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
Originally posted by 3mar

I got a power meter during my taper for a HIM and therefore didn't do an FTP test. It's been about a week and a half since the race and I *feel* like I'm close to 100%. I realize recovery is pretty personal and I was pretty beat up after the race, so any rules of thumb for time before full recovery? I wouldn't want to do it too early and not have accurate results.


10 days ? You should be good. Too early, you are still recovering. Too late, you have lost fitness.

Edited by marcag 2015-10-28 5:35 AM
2015-10-28 7:23 AM
in reply to: 3mar

Master
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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test

I'd try to execute a few hard workouts before the FTP test. They'll help you decide if you're really recovered and you might not be used to such an effort after doing and HIM.

2015-10-28 7:45 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test

You may not get accurate results anyway if it's your first time doing one, it can be tricky to get it right for the first few.

I'd do what Ben says, a few hard workouts to give you an idea if you really feel ok and then go for it.  Use the numbers you get from it for a few weeks and if the workouts you do based on the results don't seem right (too easy or too hard) then re-test.

2015-10-28 7:56 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
Originally posted by axteraa

You may not get accurate results anyway if it's your first time doing one, it can be tricky to get it right for the first few.

I'd do what Ben says, a few hard workouts to give you an idea if you really feel ok and then go for it.  Use the numbers you get from it for a few weeks and if the workouts you do based on the results don't seem right (too easy or too hard) then re-test.




Yeah, make sure you're good by doing a few harder workouts...last thing you want is to be halfway through an FTP test (those things suck) and realize you're not fully recovered. If done correctly, that's a hard test. You want to be as close to 100% as possible.
2015-10-28 8:09 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
Since Marcag was the only post I read before my workout this morning I went for it. That was a lot tougher than I thought it'd be. I felt like I was close to puking at the end. I'm not 100% sure of the results but it looks like I've got a lot of work to do on the bike....which isn't a big surprise. I ended up at 216.



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2015-10-28 8:14 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test

Well, you didn't fade at the end or have a bunch left in the tank that let you jack the power way up so I'd say it's a reasonable result to base some training on.  You'll know once you do some workouts whether or not you need to re-test soon.  

I'd say you did really well for a first attempt.  Don't compare your numbers to others, just focus on your own, do the work and you will get results!

 

2015-10-28 8:29 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test

Yeah, that seems decent for a first attempt at it. I could see it smoothing some with a little more practice, but not really glaring issues in this.

And to add to what I said earlier, I get the almost puking feeling more easily when reintroducing over threshold work after not doing it for some time. It might jump up over the next few weeks simply from that. It's your body just getting used to working up there again. Still, this should be good enough to start.

2015-10-28 8:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test

did you calibrate before riding ?

that number does make sense based on your HIM power.

this may be a good place to do some reading
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...

Edited by marcag 2015-10-28 8:39 AM
2015-10-28 8:35 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Elite
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Whispering Pines, North Carolina
Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
Originally posted by axteraa

Well, you didn't fade at the end or have a bunch left in the tank that let you jack the power way up so I'd say it's a reasonable result to base some training on.  You'll know once you do some workouts whether or not you need to re-test soon.  

I'd say you did really well for a first attempt.  Don't compare your numbers to others, just focus on your own, do the work and you will get results!

 




great job on your first attempt...did you only do 20 mins? if so, that's prob not an accurate test, though. you should warm up properly, add in a few 5 min bursts, and then hit the 20 min portion, easier at first, then all out towards the end.

depending on which philosophy you follow, you should multiply the average FTP for those 20 mins by .95 or .935 for your actual FTP, as that (sort of) takes into account FTP over the course of an hour.

good luck and keep at it.
2015-10-28 9:12 AM
in reply to: marcag

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1502
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Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
Originally posted by marcag


did you calibrate before riding ?

that number does make sense based on your HIM power.

this may be a good place to do some reading
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...


I've never calibrated it. I guess I should look into that.


2015-10-28 9:13 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test

Are you using a Garmin?  If so, does it not ask you to calibrate it when it detects it?

2015-10-28 9:20 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test

Definitely not bad for a first attempt!  It looks like you started a little conservatively (a good plan), bumped it up a bit five or so minutes in, but then you did fade a little between (what appears to be) 10 and 15 minutes, and then really buckled down for the last five minutes.  But nothing glaring -- I remember for my first attempt, I way overestimated my ability for the first five minutes, pretty much died, soft pedaled for a bit, tried pushing again....lasted a few minutes before I finally gave up.

Once you know roughly where you are and have a good strategy for the test, they become a little more doable....but if you don't start thinking you want to quit or you might puke, you're probably not doing it right.  The only thing that keeps me going is that if I quit 10+ minutes in, I know I have to do it again and have already tortured myself long enough that I might as well finish it out!

2015-10-28 10:53 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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1502
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Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
Originally posted by axteraa

Are you using a Garmin?  If so, does it not ask you to calibrate it when it detects it?




I'm using my garmin 920xt. It has never asked to calibrate.
2015-10-28 10:59 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Madison, Wisconsin
Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
Originally posted by 3mar

I got a power meter during my taper for a HIM and therefore didn't do an FTP test. It's been about a week and a half since the race and I *feel* like I'm close to 100%. I realize recovery is pretty personal and I was pretty beat up after the race, so any rules of thumb for time before full recovery? I wouldn't want to do it too early and not have accurate results.


Adding on to what everyone else has said.

Make sure to collect lots of data, and get your maximal power numbers at various times (3, 5, 10, 20, 30, etc) to see what you can hold and for how long. Race files are very good to add to the data too.

Dont base your critical power based off one 20 minute test.
2015-10-28 11:01 AM
in reply to: 3mar

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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
Originally posted by 3mar

Originally posted by axteraa

Are you using a Garmin?  If so, does it not ask you to calibrate it when it detects it?




I'm using my garmin 920xt. It has never asked to calibrate.


The 920 doesn't ask to calibrate. You have to do it manually.

I think, and this you have to confirm with guys like Arend that have a P2M, that the P2M auto calibrates when you coast. Did you coast at all ? Sometimes people don't coast at all on the trainer.



2015-10-28 11:04 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by axteraa

Are you using a Garmin?  If so, does it not ask you to calibrate it when it detects it?

I'm using my garmin 920xt. It has never asked to calibrate.
The 920 doesn't ask to calibrate. You have to do it manually. I think, and this you have to confirm with guys like Arend that have a P2M, that the P2M auto calibrates when you coast. Did you coast at all ? Sometimes people don't coast at all on the trainer.

Yes, it should do an auto-zero when you coast for a few seconds.  On the trainer I usually do it once around 5 mins (while turning on some fans) and then again around 15 mins (when I open the window).  

I don't *know* that it does the auto zero as there is no indication as such, I'm basing it purely on P2M saying that's what happens.

2015-10-28 11:41 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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1502
1000500
Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by 3mar
Originally posted by axteraa

Are you using a Garmin?  If so, does it not ask you to calibrate it when it detects it?

I'm using my garmin 920xt. It has never asked to calibrate.
The 920 doesn't ask to calibrate. You have to do it manually. I think, and this you have to confirm with guys like Arend that have a P2M, that the P2M auto calibrates when you coast. Did you coast at all ? Sometimes people don't coast at all on the trainer.

Yes, it should do an auto-zero when you coast for a few seconds.  On the trainer I usually do it once around 5 mins (while turning on some fans) and then again around 15 mins (when I open the window).  

I don't *know* that it does the auto zero as there is no indication as such, I'm basing it purely on P2M saying that's what happens.




I don't coast on the trainer. So I don't believe it zeroed. Also, I rarely, if ever, coast during my rides. Maybe I should at the beginning of my rides?
2015-10-28 11:45 AM
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Elite
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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test

Originally posted by 3mar I don't coast on the trainer. So I don't believe it zeroed. Also, I rarely, if ever, coast during my rides. Maybe I should at the beginning of my rides?

Flat-landers...  ;)

I would do a manual calibrate on the 920 at the beginning of the ride (not sure how you do that, Marc or someone else with one would know) and then at some point early in the ride just coast for 5 seconds.



Edited by axteraa 2015-10-28 11:45 AM
2015-10-28 12:45 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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1502
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Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by 3mar I don't coast on the trainer. So I don't believe it zeroed. Also, I rarely, if ever, coast during my rides. Maybe I should at the beginning of my rides?

Flat-landers...  

I would do a manual calibrate on the 920 at the beginning of the ride (not sure how you do that, Marc or someone else with one would know) and then at some point early in the ride just coast for 5 seconds.




You mean 250 feet of elevation gain over a 65 mile ride isn't "rolling hills"?
2015-10-28 12:51 PM
in reply to: 3mar

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1502
1000500
Katy, Texas
Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
So is 216 my FTP or is it 95% of that?

Based on this, where should my intervals be (I realize this is a loaded question). I'm talking very general, I.e. If I'm doing 20 min intervals vs 2 min, are there rules of thumb? looking back, I did a workout outside with 7 x 4 min intervals and they averaged between 210 to 250 watts. Does that sound right?


2015-10-28 1:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
Originally posted by 3mar

So is 216 my FTP or is it 95% of that?

Based on this, where should my intervals be (I realize this is a loaded question). I'm talking very general, I.e. If I'm doing 20 min intervals vs 2 min, are there rules of thumb? looking back, I did a workout outside with 7 x 4 min intervals and they averaged between 210 to 250 watts. Does that sound right?


205 (95%) would be your FTP. The 95% method, although popular is debatable but that's another debate

7x4 you should be able to do at 110% = 225w, so that sounds right. Of course, recovery time makes a difference

Look at that link I posted above. Every few pages you will find workouts with duration, % of FTP, recovery....
Here's an example
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...



Edited by marcag 2015-10-28 1:14 PM
2015-10-28 1:32 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by 3mar So is 216 my FTP or is it 95% of that? Based on this, where should my intervals be (I realize this is a loaded question). I'm talking very general, I.e. If I'm doing 20 min intervals vs 2 min, are there rules of thumb? looking back, I did a workout outside with 7 x 4 min intervals and they averaged between 210 to 250 watts. Does that sound right?
205 (95%) would be your FTP. The 95% method, although popular is debatable but that's another debate 7x4 you should be able to do at 110% = 225w, so that sounds right. Of course, recovery time makes a difference Look at that link I posted above. Every few pages you will find workouts with duration, % of FTP, recovery.... Here's an example http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...
3mar, I have just about all the info Shane & Marc posted in that thread in a word (and pdf) file if that would help.  Parsing through all the posts to find the info can be difficult.

2015-10-28 1:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test
Originally posted by Donto

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by 3mar So is 216 my FTP or is it 95% of that? Based on this, where should my intervals be (I realize this is a loaded question). I'm talking very general, I.e. If I'm doing 20 min intervals vs 2 min, are there rules of thumb? looking back, I did a workout outside with 7 x 4 min intervals and they averaged between 210 to 250 watts. Does that sound right?
205 (95%) would be your FTP. The 95% method, although popular is debatable but that's another debate 7x4 you should be able to do at 110% = 225w, so that sounds right. Of course, recovery time makes a difference Look at that link I posted above. Every few pages you will find workouts with duration, % of FTP, recovery.... Here's an example http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp...
3mar, I have just about all the info Shane & Marc posted in that thread in a word (and pdf) file if that would help.  Parsing through all the posts to find the info can be difficult.




Also, If you go to my training log, I also have a link to each individual week.
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/training/index-weekly....

I am contemplating doing another one if we can get enough people interested. PM me if so.

Edited by marcag 2015-10-28 1:56 PM
2015-10-28 1:53 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Oakville
Subject: RE: Time after HIM for an FTP test

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by 3mar I don't coast on the trainer. So I don't believe it zeroed. Also, I rarely, if ever, coast during my rides. Maybe I should at the beginning of my rides?

Flat-landers...  

I would do a manual calibrate on the 920 at the beginning of the ride (not sure how you do that, Marc or someone else with one would know) and then at some point early in the ride just coast for 5 seconds.

Just an FYI for the calibration, I have a P2M and use a Garmin 500.  If you have a HR monitor paired to the Garmin, it will not calibrate the P2M unless you are wearing the HRM.  No idea why, but it will sit in limbo indefinitely until it detects the HRM.

Not sure if this is an issue for the 920xt.

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