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Tri coaching survey
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 2016-05-04 11:33 AM |
Veteran  244   London, England |  Subject: Tri coaching surveyHi all, I'm working with a fellow triathlete to gauge interest in a more accessible type of endurance sports training. Although it's not exclusively triathlon-focused, I'd love to get some feedback from some fellow BT'ers. Here's the survey: http://goo.gl/forms/fps2CqyegP The survey's just a simple google form. I've just done it, and it takes about 3 minutes to complete. Would you mind? Huge thanks in advance for your input.  Nathan |
| 2016-05-04 12:31 PM in reply to: byrdnj |
| 1 | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Survey done, thanks! Good luck! |
| 2016-05-04 12:56 PM in reply to: byrdnj |
Veteran 244 London, England | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Thanks everyone! Nice results flowing in so far. EARLY FINDINGS: Seems that most people are struggling with the price point of training, finding coaches in the market quite expensive right now. FOLLOW UP QUESTION: I wonder, would you be interested in a longer commitment to the training, for a lower monthly price? I think a lot of coaches fear the 1-month and done athlete when a new-athlete evaluation takes so much effort. Thoughts? |
| 2016-05-04 12:59 PM in reply to: byrdnj |
1300 | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by byrdnj Thanks everyone! Nice results flowing in so far. EARLY FINDINGS: Seems that most people are struggling with the price point of training, finding coaches in the market quite expensive right now. FOLLOW UP QUESTION: I wonder, would you be interested in a longer commitment to the training, for a lower monthly price? I think a lot of coaches fear the 1-month and done athlete when a new-athlete evaluation takes so much effort. Thoughts? Yes, if I was to use a coach I would definitely consider that. |
| 2016-05-04 1:22 PM in reply to: byrdnj |
Champion 7036  Sarasota, FL | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by byrdnj Thanks everyone! Nice results flowing in so far. EARLY FINDINGS: Seems that most people are struggling with the price point of training, finding coaches in the market quite expensive right now. FOLLOW UP QUESTION: I wonder, would you be interested in a longer commitment to the training, for a lower monthly price? I think a lot of coaches fear the 1-month and done athlete when a new-athlete evaluation takes so much effort. Thoughts? I had a bad experience with my first triathlon coach several years ago when I paid upfront for a race season plan and he failed to live up to his commitments (weekly workouts plans via email, evaluation & feedback on previous week's workouts, not showing up at my races, etc.). Once burned, I'd have a though time making a long-term coaching commitment again. I currently have a month-to-month no-contract arrangement with my Masters swimming coach. He actually prefers to bill on a monthly basis, rather than offering discounts for longer-term agreements. Mark
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| 2016-05-04 1:39 PM in reply to: #5180265 |
| 263 | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Tri coaches are worthless to anyone who is not a pro or doping. I can do everything you can do for free. The athletes in this sport already spend too much money and people like who, who take advantage of athletes should be ashamed of yourself. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find an online training program, complete the program and make tweaks for what they need to improve on. For those training with HR, it also doesn't take a rocket scientist to find their zones and analyze their data... Same thing applies to training with power. Get power meter, find FTP and train off your FTP. There you go, all free... Now quit charging athletes 300+ bucks a month. |
| 2016-05-04 1:44 PM in reply to: AndyEWU07 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by AndyEWU07 Tri coaches are worthless to anyone who is not a pro or doping. I can do everything you can do for free. The athletes in this sport already spend too much money and people like who, who take advantage of athletes should be ashamed of yourself. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find an online training program, complete the program and make tweaks for what they need to improve on. For those training with HR, it also doesn't take a rocket scientist to find their zones and analyze their data... Same thing applies to training with power. Get power meter, find FTP and train off your FTP. There you go, all free... Now quit charging athletes 300+ bucks a month. well said |
| 2016-05-04 1:55 PM in reply to: byrdnj |
| Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by byrdnjI wonder, would you be interested in a longer commitment to the training, for a lower monthly price? I think a lot of coaches fear the 1-month and done athlete when a new-athlete evaluation takes so much effort. Thoughts? Though I didn't ask for it, the coach I'm working with told me that he would send my first bill after the first month of coaching was completed, and only if I wanted to continue. I thought that was really fair...but I also think he's pretty confident in the services he offers and that the only way you would cancel after the first month is if you realized you're the type that doesn't really want coaching structure and rather just train whenever and however you feel like it. |
| 2016-05-04 2:48 PM in reply to: AndyEWU07 |
| 1300 | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by AndyEWU07 Tri coaches are worthless to anyone who is not a pro or doping. I can do everything you can do for free. You need new material. 0/10 |
| 2016-05-04 2:57 PM in reply to: byrdnj |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by byrdnj Thanks everyone! Nice results flowing in so far. EARLY FINDINGS: Seems that most people are struggling with the price point of training, finding coaches in the market quite expensive right now. FOLLOW UP QUESTION: I wonder, would you be interested in a longer commitment to the training, for a lower monthly price? I think a lot of coaches fear the 1-month and done athlete when a new-athlete evaluation takes so much effort. Thoughts? FWIW, as a coach who knows the amount of time involved monthly to coach someone, most coaches who are investing the time needed to do it right are already under charging on an hourly basis. Charging less in exchange for a longer commitment reminds me of an old joke that my father used to say about the home building industry: "We lose 2% on every house we build, but we make it up with volume." Any discounted pricing will very likely necessitate a reduction in service level. That's why you see coaching packages that do things like limit communication or are little more than modified versions of generic plans that don't include schedule changes.
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| 2016-05-04 2:57 PM in reply to: #5180284 |
| 263 | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Don't turn this thread around on me... It's a survey about coaches... I have my opinion... Coaches are a worthless money pit that only lazy athletes utilize. |
| 2016-05-04 3:04 PM in reply to: AndyEWU07 |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by AndyEWU07 Tri coaches are worthless to anyone who is not a pro or doping. I can do everything you can do for free. The athletes in this sport already spend too much money and people like who, who take advantage of athletes should be ashamed of yourself. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find an online training program, complete the program and make tweaks for what they need to improve on. For those training with HR, it also doesn't take a rocket scientist to find their zones and analyze their data... Same thing applies to training with power. Get power meter, find FTP and train off your FTP. There you go, all free... Now quit charging athletes 300+ bucks a month. Yeah, I agree. You need new troll material. 0/10
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| 2016-05-04 3:31 PM in reply to: #5180295 |
| 263 | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey I can't provide new troll material when you people ask the same questions over and over again. New questions, new toll material... That simple! |
| 2016-05-04 4:31 PM in reply to: AndyEWU07 |
Veteran 244 London, England | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Guys, thanks for this. This is all really helpful feedback - including the diversity of views on the value of a tri coach. Different folks find different strategies effective for getting across the finish line, and it helps to see where a variety of people land on this spectrum. Really enjoying the survey feedback from those with coaches, as well, saying what they find effective - and ineffective - about their coaches and the concept of an endurance coach in general. Thanks for the input! |
| 2016-05-04 6:56 PM in reply to: AndyEWU07 |
Champion 9407 Montague Gold Mines, Nova Scotia | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Not sure why I'm bothering but oh well... Originally posted by AndyEWU07 Tri coaches are worthless to anyone who is not a pro Having coached some elites and some age groupers, there are some in each category that benefit and some in each category who see at most a minor benefit. or doping. This is just idiotic. I can do everything you can do for free. Maybe - based on some other posts, probably not but maybe. The athletes in this sport already spend too much money and people like who, who take advantage of athletes should be ashamed of yourself. While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, most coaches are doing what they do to help people. They're not getting rich and they're not trying to take advantage of anyone. Not to say there aren't bad coaches, mostly due to lack of knowledge, but to suggest some nefarious intent is not the case with the vast majority. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find an online training program, complete the program and make tweaks for what they need to improve on. For those training with HR, it also doesn't take a rocket scientist to find their zones and analyze their data... Same thing applies to training with power. Get power meter, find FTP and train off your FTP. Some people like stressing over the nuts and bolts. Some people just want to be told what workouts to do. And many situations in between. For some people, they'd rather pay someone to do the planning and analysis for them and then not really worry about the details. The same way some people like to do their own car maintenance and others go to a mechanic. There you go, all free... Now quit charging athletes 300+ bucks a month. Nobody is saying one cannot educate themselves - there's good information (mixed in with a tonne of terrible advice) available for free. However, separating the good from bad can be a challenge and is not one everyone cares to take on. Shane |
| 2016-05-04 9:02 PM in reply to: gsmacleod |
Official BT Coach 18500 Indianapolis, Indiana Gold member | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by gsmacleod Not sure why I'm bothering but oh well... Originally posted by AndyEWU07 Tri coaches are worthless to anyone who is not a pro Having coached some elites and some age groupers, there are some in each category that benefit and some in each category who see at most a minor benefit. or doping. This is just idiotic. I can do everything you can do for free. Maybe - based on some other posts, probably not but maybe. The athletes in this sport already spend too much money and people like who, who take advantage of athletes should be ashamed of yourself. While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, most coaches are doing what they do to help people. They're not getting rich and they're not trying to take advantage of anyone. Not to say there aren't bad coaches, mostly due to lack of knowledge, but to suggest some nefarious intent is not the case with the vast majority. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find an online training program, complete the program and make tweaks for what they need to improve on. For those training with HR, it also doesn't take a rocket scientist to find their zones and analyze their data... Same thing applies to training with power. Get power meter, find FTP and train off your FTP. Some people like stressing over the nuts and bolts. Some people just want to be told what workouts to do. And many situations in between. For some people, they'd rather pay someone to do the planning and analysis for them and then not really worry about the details. The same way some people like to do their own car maintenance and others go to a mechanic. There you go, all free... Now quit charging athletes 300+ bucks a month. Nobody is saying one cannot educate themselves - there's good information (mixed in with a tonne of terrible advice) available for free. However, separating the good from bad can be a challenge and is not one everyone cares to take on. Shane Shane, Well said! |
| 2016-05-04 10:05 PM in reply to: AndyEWU07 |
Coach 9167 Stairway to Seven | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by AndyEWU07 Don't turn this thread around on me... It's a survey about coaches... I have my opinion... Coaches are a worthless money pit that only lazy athletes utilize. Why the vitriol? I've seen this at least three different times in the short period of time I've known of you and your rep here on BT. So while I respect your right to have an opinion, and especially if this gives you a laugh as you sit behind the keyboard, I am genuinely curious...what happened to you as a child? who stole your toys ? |
| 2016-05-05 3:23 AM in reply to: AdventureBear |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by AdventureBear Apparently a coach bullied him and stole his toys.Originally posted by AndyEWU07Don't turn this thread around on me... It's a survey about coaches... I have my opinion... Coaches are a worthless money pit that only lazy athletes utilize. Why the vitriol?......what happened to you as a child? who stole your toys ? |
| 2016-05-05 5:57 AM in reply to: AdventureBear |
| 1300 | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by AdventureBear He never got his trucker hat ! Oops wrong placeOriginally posted by AndyEWU07Don't turn this thread around on me... It's a survey about coaches... I have my opinion... Coaches are a worthless money pit that only lazy athletes utilize. Why the vitriol? I've seen this at least three different times in the short period of time I've known of you and your rep here on BT. So while I respect your right to have an opinion, and especially if this gives you a laugh as you sit behind the keyboard, I am genuinely curious...what happened to you as a child? who stole your toys ? |
| 2016-05-05 6:45 AM in reply to: byrdnj |
| 1662 , Kronobergs lan | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by byrdnj FOLLOW UP QUESTION: I wonder, would you be interested in a longer commitment to the training, for a lower monthly price? I think a lot of coaches fear the 1-month and done athlete when a new-athlete evaluation takes so much effort. Thoughts? Yes, that would be interesting for me. I had a coach once and I let him go because I kept thinking of what I could do with the money instead. I thought I could write my own training programs, based on his. How difficult could that be? Well, the answer is, while it's not difficult to write training programs, following them is another thing. I am one of those people who need somebody breathing down my neck to push myself. (I don't think I am your average triathlete though. i have been trying to get into this sport for almost 3 years but I am still not sure it's for me. But this might be interesting to you anyway) |
| 2016-05-05 7:16 AM in reply to: byrdnj |
Master 8247 Eugene, Oregon Bronze member | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey No, I would not be interested in a longer commitment for a lower price. In fact, I rejected several potential coaches who appeared to be very qualified but wanted a commitment of several months to a year, or offered a lower price for that. It's not that I'm not committed....as an endurance athlete since age 10, I probably should BE COMMITTED somewhere....but other reasons: #1 I'm an only child of aging parents who have had some major health issues. I've worked overseas most of my adult life. It's inevitable that someday, for the short or long term, most of my spare time is going to be taken up focusing on that, not triathlon. As I told the person who does coach me now, that call could come tomorrow, next year, or ten years from now. I take each day, week, month, race as it comes. I don't want to commit financially to "that call" not coming in the next 6-12 months. #2 Even if #1 did not appIy, would want to feel that the coach's programs and feedback gave me enough added value that I wanted to continue. I would not want to make that judgement without working with someone for at least a few months and preferably an entire season. #3 Even if #1 and 2 did not apply, triathlon's not my job. I want to be free to decide that I don't want to focus on tri, or don't want to do so with a coach, for a month, a few months, a season, or whatever, if my body, my mind, or my life are telling me that. That might not happen, but if I felt financially roped in for a set time period, triathlon would feel much more like a job, only one that costs me money! |
| 2016-05-05 10:23 AM in reply to: Hot Runner |
Extreme Veteran 678 Rome, NY | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey I am a coach, I charge monthly ($125) and I give them their workouts weekly. My athletes are free to leave when they want the majority of them leave after A race which is a IM. I don't find my athletes to be lazy as they all work their tails off. I had one girl who did IMLP self coached and two years later being coached went 1hour and 28 mins faster. Knowledge is Power and Hard work pays off. I believe they want coaching to... 1. Get better 2. Have structure 3. Have accountability 4. Learn from someone else's mistakes. |
| 2016-05-05 10:38 AM in reply to: byrdnj |
| 754 | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by byrdnj Thanks everyone! Nice results flowing in so far. EARLY FINDINGS: Seems that most people are struggling with the price point of training, finding coaches in the market quite expensive right now. FOLLOW UP QUESTION: I wonder, would you be interested in a longer commitment to the training, for a lower monthly price? I think a lot of coaches fear the 1-month and done athlete when a new-athlete evaluation takes so much effort. Thoughts? Here is one of my big concerns about a coach. I have tried finding multiple swim coaches and personal trainers. Every one of them, without exception, has NOT listened to me. They either give me canned workouts and drills without explaining why I am doing something, or they have tried to turn me into the type of athlete that they want me to be instead of the type of athlete that I want to be. For example, I tried three personal trainers in an attempt to give me a strength training program that would support my triathlons and trail running with a focus on injury prevention and agility. I explained my race goals and brought in my training log so they would understand me as an athlete. Not one of them looked at it. They all gave me generalized workouts that left me too weak for the actual triathlon training. They each set back my training so I lost not just money but time. Because of these experiences, I am extremely reluctant to spend hundreds of dollars of a triathlon coach. I would consider it if the initial meeting was less expensive than the follow-ups. |
| 2016-05-05 11:28 AM in reply to: happyscientist |
Pro 6011 Camp Hill, Pennsylvania | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by happyscientist Originally posted by byrdnj Thanks everyone! Nice results flowing in so far. EARLY FINDINGS: Seems that most people are struggling with the price point of training, finding coaches in the market quite expensive right now. FOLLOW UP QUESTION: I wonder, would you be interested in a longer commitment to the training, for a lower monthly price? I think a lot of coaches fear the 1-month and done athlete when a new-athlete evaluation takes so much effort. Thoughts? Here is one of my big concerns about a coach. I have tried finding multiple swim coaches and personal trainers. Every one of them, without exception, has NOT listened to me. They either give me canned workouts and drills without explaining why I am doing something, or they have tried to turn me into the type of athlete that they want me to be instead of the type of athlete that I want to be. For example, I tried three personal trainers in an attempt to give me a strength training program that would support my triathlons and trail running with a focus on injury prevention and agility. I explained my race goals and brought in my training log so they would understand me as an athlete. Not one of them looked at it. They all gave me generalized workouts that left me too weak for the actual triathlon training. They each set back my training so I lost not just money but time. Because of these experiences, I am extremely reluctant to spend hundreds of dollars of a triathlon coach. I would consider it if the initial meeting was less expensive than the follow-ups. Most personal trainers have absolutely no clue about how to properly evaluate and train an endurance athlete of any type. It's not surprising at all that you had that experience. Unless you specifically seek out one who has knowledge of both endurance sports and strength and conditioning, you're not going to get what you're looking for. To put it in perspective how rare that combination is, the area I live in (Metropolitan Harrisburg) has a population of a little over a half million people, many large gyms, countless fitness studios, and a few hundred personal trainers, yet there are only 2 or 3 of us with the qualifications necessary to provide what you're looking for. My suggestion would be to start by looking at endurance coaches first, rather than a personal trainer, and try to find one who is also a personal trainer or strength and conditioning coach. You're much more likely to find what you're looking for.
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| 2016-05-05 8:28 PM in reply to: k9car363 |
Veteran 720 Aurora, Illinois | Subject: RE: Tri coaching survey Originally posted by k9car363 Originally posted by gsmacleod Not sure why I'm bothering but oh well... Originally posted by AndyEWU07 Tri coaches are worthless to anyone who is not a pro Having coached some elites and some age groupers, there are some in each category that benefit and some in each category who see at most a minor benefit. or doping. This is just idiotic. I can do everything you can do for free. Maybe - based on some other posts, probably not but maybe. The athletes in this sport already spend too much money and people like who, who take advantage of athletes should be ashamed of yourself. While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, most coaches are doing what they do to help people. They're not getting rich and they're not trying to take advantage of anyone. Not to say there aren't bad coaches, mostly due to lack of knowledge, but to suggest some nefarious intent is not the case with the vast majority. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to find an online training program, complete the program and make tweaks for what they need to improve on. For those training with HR, it also doesn't take a rocket scientist to find their zones and analyze their data... Same thing applies to training with power. Get power meter, find FTP and train off your FTP. Some people like stressing over the nuts and bolts. Some people just want to be told what workouts to do. And many situations in between. For some people, they'd rather pay someone to do the planning and analysis for them and then not really worry about the details. The same way some people like to do their own car maintenance and others go to a mechanic. There you go, all free... Now quit charging athletes 300+ bucks a month. Nobody is saying one cannot educate themselves - there's good information (mixed in with a tonne of terrible advice) available for free. However, separating the good from bad can be a challenge and is not one everyone cares to take on. Shane Shane, Well said! I second that... well said! |
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