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2006-09-13 10:30 AM

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Subject: Weight lifting question
I am curious on how many people are serious weight lifters.  No, not body builders or power guys but weight lifters.  Although I love the tri's I am not willing to give up my weights, or cut back on them.  i like keeping the bulk and using weights as a tool to lean out.  So my question is who lifts regularly or religiously and are you logging it.  I am at the end of my weight routine session and I need a new routine to change things up.  I have an idea of what I want to do but would love to be able to see some logs of some of the lifters for some new ideas.  Currently I lift chest, arms, shoulders and back.  In the winter I will be lifting legs as well and continuing my running and biking.  I mix abs and core into every or every other workout.  Thanks to all that respond and I look forward to reading your logs.


2006-09-13 11:22 AM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
No logs to share but I lifted weights regularly before giving this triathlon thing a shot this summer. At this point I'm lucky if I can get into the gym more than once a week to lift though, just because I'm dedicating so much time to the pool and learning how to swim. Now that I missed the window for races this year I may ease up on the swimming and adjust my schedule so I can hit the weights mroe often.

What type of workout do you follow? I imagine this winter if/when I shuffle my workouts around I'll get back into some compound lifts and follow some sort of 5x5 or HST routine. Right now I'm just trying to maintain...
2006-09-13 11:49 AM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
All of my workouts are in my logs.  Only rest is in between sets when I am changing the weights.  This way I can keep my heart rate up to promote the fat burn.
2006-09-13 12:01 PM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

I try to work on my back, legs, core, and chest.  I love squats!  I would like to gain some mass over the winter for next season. 

If you are getting burnt out, try changing the reps to a lower amount and lift slower. 

2006-09-13 12:28 PM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
I lift mainly upper body but I do put 1 leg left in everyday. It is hard to balance all 3 disciplines (let alone the 4th being weights) so I do sacrifice weights. I just try not to lose any strength. I think every triathlete should lift......you will feel much better in your tri shorts!!!!!
2006-09-13 2:02 PM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

I've been weight training for 9 years and tri training 9 weeks so take what I say with a grain of salt.

I simply couldn't give up lifting so I've been doing 2 full body workouts a week since I found hitting each muscle group every 3-4 days works best for me.  I still do all body parts including legs but I don't do the 2-3 rep sets anymore; more like 8-12.  Deadlifts are the only thing I do that is still under 8 reps per set.  Though I do full body twice a week I focus one day on pulling exercises and the other on pushing exercises.  So workout #1 has 2 pushing (chest, shoulders, tris, quads)exercises and 1 pulling depending on the muscle group and workout #2 has 2 pulling(back, bis, butt/hammys, traps) exercises and 1 pushing exercise depending on muscle group.  Both days have ab work.

 I have been hand writing my workout journals for so long I can't get out of the habit so nothing is online.  Sorry.  Hope this helps.

 

-Tim



2006-09-13 2:04 PM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
If you really want to change things up and get your body wondering what the hell you're doing....and get it to start building mass...check this program out -

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=244anti2

I have a nice excel spreadsheet I can email you if you want a nicely formatted schedule to follow. The design of this program probably introduces you to some new set/rep schemes that will really help you grow. I am a weight lifter and have incorporated the triathlon into my life, not the other way around, which I think has been advantageous to me.
2006-09-13 2:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

I'm sorta in the same boat as you in that triathlon is far newer in my life than weight training.  From there though, I'll disagree with you a bit.  Muscle mass is not desirable to an endurance athlete.  Programs that are designed for that specifically just aren't optimal for triathlon training.  While we'd like to be as strong as we can be, we'd also like to do that at the lowest possible weight. 

duffeymt - 2006-09-13 2:04 PM If you really want to change things up and get your body wondering what the hell you're doing....and get it to start building mass...check this program out - http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=244anti2I have a nice excel spreadsheet I can email you if you want a nicely formatted schedule to follow. The design of this program probably introduces you to some new set/rep schemes that will really help you grow. I am a weight lifter and have incorporated the triathlon into my life, not the other way around, which I think has been advantageous to me.

2006-09-13 2:17 PM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

Weight training is very important to the endurance athlete. However as Derek stated you don't want to build muscle mass if you are able (more weight to carry around). Low weight and high repetitions are always a good rule of thumb. You can only benefit from weight training as it (obvioulsy) makes your muscles stronger and helps in the prevention of injury.

2006-09-13 2:17 PM
in reply to: #539835

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
DerekL - 2006-09-13 2:11 PM

I'm sorta in the same boat as you in that triathlon is far newer in my life than weight training.  From there though, I'll disagree with you a bit.  Muscle mass is not desirable to an endurance athlete.  Programs that are designed for that specifically just aren't optimal for triathlon training.  While we'd like to be as strong as we can be, we'd also like to do that at the lowest possible weight. 

duffeymt - 2006-09-13 2:04 PM If you really want to change things up and get your body wondering what the hell you're doing....and get it to start building mass...check this program out - http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=244anti2I have a nice excel spreadsheet I can email you if you want a nicely formatted schedule to follow. The design of this program probably introduces you to some new set/rep schemes that will really help you grow. I am a weight lifter and have incorporated the triathlon into my life, not the other way around, which I think has been advantageous to me.



I'd agree with you. I never said that putting on mass would be beneficial to one's triahtlon career. Lifting weights by no means will get someone huge. If that was the case, everyone would be walking around jacked. Its a lot harder than most people believe to put on muscle mass, especially when running, swimming and biking every day. The myth of lifting weights will get you too big for triathlons is so popular it's crazy people can be so ignorant.
2006-09-13 2:28 PM
in reply to: #539849

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

You'll get no arguments from me about that.  Like I said, that's what I did for the 10 or so years before I picked up this crazy sport.

My contention is with the choice of program.  Its very intent is muscle mass building.  Whether than actually happens or not isn't really the point.  The muscle damage done to induce that growth still occurs and could potentially interfere with recovery from your endurance events.  I'd rather see people do programs that limit muscular trauma and focus more on strength and making your nervous system more efficient at particular movements.

duffeymt - 2006-09-13 2:17 PM
I'd agree with you. I never said that putting on mass would be beneficial to one's triahtlon career. Lifting weights by no means will get someone huge. If that was the case, everyone would be walking around jacked. Its a lot harder than most people believe to put on muscle mass, especially when running, swimming and biking every day. The myth of lifting weights will get you too big for triathlons is so popular it's crazy people can be so ignorant.



2006-09-13 2:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
I'd also agree with you. However, I thought the point of the original post was to look for off season weight lifting programs for the OFF season, when one isn't training for any particualr event that would require signficant recovery.
2006-09-13 2:34 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

Not sure about the OP, but most people keep up a pretty decent volume of the big three even in the offseason.  If they didn't and they ate enough, then they'd be putting on unnecessary muscle mass.

Just IMO of course.

duffeymt - 2006-09-13 2:30 PM I'd also agree with you. However, I thought the point of the original post was to look for off season weight lifting programs for the OFF season, when one isn't training for any particualr event that would require signficant recovery.

2006-09-13 2:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
duffeymt,

Another T-Nation reader - small world! That is one of my favorite sites. For those of you who may be turned off by the macho attitude of T-Nation, if you can get past it I think you'll find that there is some excellent information there about strength training. Ironically, I wanted to take a break from endurance stuff and started to do Chad Waterbury's Anti-bodybuilding Hypertrophy program (the original version), but I gained weight at a frighteningly fast pace. I still need to lose a bunch of weight so I'm now rethinking whether I should continue training to gain some mass or go back to dieting and kick my endurance training up a notch.

I too was very into weightlifting and considered competing in powerlifting, but I just don't care for all the suits and gear that they use, and there are very few federations that lift "raw." So, I've decided to try this endurance thing and use my strength to my advantage. I've enjoyed endurance training so far, I feel healthier than when I just lifted, and I definitely plan on staying on the endurance side of things. But I still enjoy lifting heavy and would like to continue to gain strength. I log all my strength workouts so feel free to take a peek.
2006-09-13 2:55 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
Bear - Good to hear! ABBH1 is a great porgram, I am on it now for seciond time around after taking the summer off to train for events. I love this program and would reccomend it to anyone who wanted a solid weight lifting program. It will do wonders to anyone not used to periodization and alternate set/rep schemes. And yes, t-nation has so many great artcles on nutrition, recovery and overall strength routines that are better than any triathlon site I have seen.
2006-09-13 2:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
I was into body building before I got more into cycling earlier this year - and more recently I started swimming.  Anyway, I keep logs of my weight training, but havent' been following a strict plan.  In october, I plan to start a hypertrophy specific training plan, though.  I've used the HST plan in the past, and I really liked it.


2006-09-13 3:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
DerekL - 2006-09-13 3:11 PM

I'm sorta in the same boat as you in that triathlon is far newer in my life than weight training.  From there though, I'll disagree with you a bit.  Muscle mass is not desirable to an endurance athlete.  Programs that are designed for that specifically just aren't optimal for triathlon training.  While we'd like to be as strong as we can be, we'd also like to do that at the lowest possible weight. 

duffeymt - 2006-09-13 2:04 PM If you really want to change things up and get your body wondering what the hell you're doing....and get it to start building mass...check this program out - http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=244anti2I have a nice excel spreadsheet I can email you if you want a nicely formatted schedule to follow. The design of this program probably introduces you to some new set/rep schemes that will really help you grow. I am a weight lifter and have incorporated the triathlon into my life, not the other way around, which I think has been advantageous to me.

I do not think either of us are trying to say that mass is good for triathlons, just better for us in what we want to be and maintain physically.  At least that was my point and how I took his statement. 

2006-09-13 3:36 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

I ma not looking for an "offseason program".  I just need to change my current program since I prescribe to the idea that programs should be changed every two months or so.  I have a few otehr programs, but I am always looking for new ones and new ways to work out my body.  This would include, but not limited to how I group exercises, what those exercises are, and amount of time between set, rep times, etc.  I figure there were some weightlifters here so why not see  what others are doing.  Always willing to learn new things.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback and keep it coming.

2006-09-13 3:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
duffeymt - 2006-09-13 12:55 PM

Bear - Good to hear! ABBH1 is a great porgram, I am on it now for seciond time around after taking the summer off to train for events. I love this program and would reccomend it to anyone who wanted a solid weight lifting program. It will do wonders to anyone not used to periodization and alternate set/rep schemes. And yes, t-nation has so many great artcles on nutrition, recovery and overall strength routines that are better than any triathlon site I have seen.


I personally am in week 10 of TBT by Waterbury and I love it. I couldn't imagine not incorporating resistance training into my weekly routines.

For me personally, I'd rather finish middle of the pack in triathlons and be able to bench 1.5x my weight, squat 3x and deadlift 2x....but that may just be me.

Edit: I also think that for 90% (or more) of the people here who are just starting out whether it be tri training or fitness in general would greatly benefit from a good strength training program and NEED to work at that as hard as say running.

The few extra (hard earned) pounds of muscle you put on will make you look better and won't make as much difference on the course as you think it might. Does that make sense? I guess what I mean to say is the benefit of muscle (for the MOP/BOP) GREATLY outweights it's detractor in terms of time lost on race day.

Edited by coachese 2006-09-13 3:56 PM
2006-09-13 3:52 PM
in reply to: #540028

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
coachese - 2006-09-13 3:51 PM

duffeymt - 2006-09-13 12:55 PM

Bear - Good to hear! ABBH1 is a great porgram, I am on it now for seciond time around after taking the summer off to train for events. I love this program and would reccomend it to anyone who wanted a solid weight lifting program. It will do wonders to anyone not used to periodization and alternate set/rep schemes. And yes, t-nation has so many great artcles on nutrition, recovery and overall strength routines that are better than any triathlon site I have seen.


I personally am in week 10 of TBT by Waterbury and I love it. I couldn't imagine not incorporating resistance training into my weekly routines.

For me personally, I'd rather finish middle of the pack in triathlons and be able to bench 1.5x my weight, squat 3x and deadlift 2x....but that may just be me.


Agreed 100%.
2006-09-13 4:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
The few extra (hard earned) pounds of muscle you put on will make you look better and won't make as much difference on the course as you think it might. Does that make sense? I guess what I mean to say is the benefit of muscle (for the MOP/BOP) GREATLY outweights it's detractor in terms of time lost on race day.


I would also agree with this. In my case, I went out running on the road weighing 230+ and had no overuse injuries. I attribute that to strong joints that I built up as a result of lifting. Granted I only went on the road once a week and did the rest on a treadmill, but still, many people at that weight experience serious knee pain if they try to run.

As many here have said, it's not as easy to gain muscle mass as many people think. You have to want to gain mass. Strength is ALWAYS a good thing to have.

Okay, you guys convinced me to finish out ABBH 1. It's not so much I need the mass, but I need the change of pace and I think it's a very good routine for promoting strength gains in addition to mass gains. That's what I like about Chad's programs - although they're designed for those whose primary goal is mass, the programs never neglect strength.


2006-09-13 4:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

If your concerns are not purely performance in nature, then I agree with you guys.  If it is performance, then I disagree with hypertrophy specific programs.

FWIW, I've read T-mag from the very beginning.  I'm well aware of what it takes to put on muscle and/or build strength.

2006-09-13 5:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
DerekL - 2006-09-13 4:52 PM

If your concerns are not purely performance in nature, then I agree with you guys.  If it is performance, then I disagree with hypertrophy specific programs.

FWIW, I've read T-mag from the very beginning.  I'm well aware of what it takes to put on muscle and/or build strength.



I think it depends on the type of hypertrophy because, as I'm sure you know having read T-Mag, you can have "functional" and "non-functional" hypertrophy. Ironically, "non-functional" hypertrophy, which includes capillary density and proliferation of mitochondria, may actually be beneficial to endurance athletes. I think most Waterbury-designed programs are "athletic" in nature in that they focus on functional hypertrophy and strength. Compare that to something like German Volume Training which is solely geared toward increasing size, and has left many people bigger but weaker than they were before the program. Overall I agree with you that too much muscle mass will ultimately hinder not just an endurance athelete but any athlete other than a pure bodybuilder. Given the amount of endurance activity we do, however, I don't think performing one or two mass-oriented programs per year will hurt. We'll be lucky to keep the muscle mass once we start back into serious endurance training.

BTW - Other than perhaps when I was a teenager, I have never considered myself to be a "bodybuilder." I was, and still am, more concerned with athletic performance and general health.
2006-09-14 8:35 AM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
Back to the OP, have you looked at Cross Fit?

www.crossfit.com
2006-09-14 8:54 AM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
Love the weights. 20 years of that. About 10 years into it, I added aerobics. Three years ago I made a goal of a marathon and a 300# bench within six months of each other. I finished Chicago 2003 and got my first ever 300# bench on Dec 21 of that year. Glad there's someone else here who does both as well!
JB

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