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2006-09-14 9:44 AM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

I lift and compete in triathlon.  I find them very complimentary, except the day after deadlifts and a tough leg workout.  I try to ease up during race season and just ride/run more, but if I don't lift at least once a week I feel antsy and gross. 

I just love lifting!

And thanks, JB, for sharing that bench + marathon story.  Congrats on your goal-->success!



2006-09-14 3:51 PM
in reply to: #540729

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

AdventureBear - 2006-09-14 9:35 AM Back to the OP, have you looked at Cross Fit? www.crossfit.com[/QUOTE]

I was not familiar with it specifically, but with the idea of this kind of training.  Bad part is that it is nto practical for me when you take time and tolls at my disposal into account.  Thanks for the thought and idea though.

2006-09-14 3:59 PM
in reply to: #540760

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

jeffbach - 2006-09-14 9:54 AM Love the weights. 20 years of that. About 10 years into it, I added aerobics. Three years ago I made a goal of a marathon and a 300# bench within six months of each other. I finished Chicago 2003 and got my first ever 300# bench on Dec 21 of that year. Glad there's someone else here who does both as well! JB

 Good job on the 300.  I can remember when I was pushing for 315.  I had a ton of trouble breaking through the mental barrier of 3 plates on each side.  Then came the 400 which offered the same problems.  It sure feels good to reach that goal. 

I love the mix of weights and endurance for overall fitness.  If you enjoy lifting and endurance, have you done any of the pump and runs.  They have three per year where I am located.  They vary slightly but I have almost won two of them.  You bench your body weight as many times as you can up to 30 reps.  For every rep you take off 15-30 seconds of your run time.  The person with the lowest total time after weight time is taken off wins.  Some have weight classes and some do not.  However it is great for people that lift because it balances out the field a bit more.  I have finished second twice but not won one YET.  However there is one in three weeks that I feel good about.  It has weight classes and I do not have to compete against the guy that always beats me.  Keep your fingers crossed.

2006-09-14 4:19 PM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
I've never even heard of pump and runs. What a great idea! I migh have to start one here in the Madison area!
2006-09-14 6:05 PM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
Jeff, great job on the bench and marathon. Tends to disprove those who say that you cannot gain strength and endurance at the same time.

I like the pump and run concept. When I ran a Google it seemed like they were only held in the Ohio area. May have to consider one here in Colorado.
2006-09-14 6:26 PM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
I've done both Chicago 03 and Grandma's 04 - I wasn't particularly fast in either event - but I finished both of them. Both races I was over 220#. Never had PF or shin splints or ailments (knock on wood). I too would attribute my good luck with leg health to lots of weight lifting and a fair amount of biking thrown in as well!

I think I might pitch a pump and run event to some of the local health clubs and see what they think of it......
JB


2006-09-15 12:19 AM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

Here is the link to the P&R that I have done.  if interested maybe they could help you in getting set up or signed up for one.

 

http://www.pumpandrunrace.com/

2006-09-15 12:23 PM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

buckeye66 - 2006-09-13 11:30 AM I am curious on how many people are serious weight lifters.  No, not body builders or power guys but weight lifters. 

You might want to give Weightlifting (Clean & Jerk / Snatch) a try for a change of pace. I got interested in it from CrossFit workouts, where the oly lifts and their components are pretty much a staple. You can also get plenty of advice at T-Nation. If your squat is as strong as your BP, you would be a natural.

2006-09-15 4:37 PM
in reply to: #542032

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
buckeye66 - 2006-09-15 12:19 AM

Here is the link to the P&R that I have done.  if interested maybe they could help you in getting set up or signed up for one.

 

http://www.pumpandrunrace.com/




An enterprising individual could take that concept and make it a national event. Right now, the only other strength and endurance combo event that I know of is STREND. http://www.strend.com/description.html

IMO, STREND requires too much specialized equipment (the photo shows the "official" STREND pull up bar, for instance), the exercises test only upper body strength, and the exercises overlap (do you really need to test dip AND bench press?). While it's true that the pump and run also only focuses on upper body strength, at least it only uses one exercise. If you're going to use more than one strength exercise, you should add a lower body component. And it's so simple - anyone could lug a decent bench and an Olympic set out to a running venue, stick a big tent over it, and you're in business.
2006-09-15 9:16 PM
in reply to: #542626

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
lengle - 2006-09-15 1:23 PM

buckeye66 - 2006-09-13 11:30 AM I am curious on how many people are serious weight lifters.  No, not body builders or power guys but weight lifters. 

You might want to give Weightlifting (Clean & Jerk / Snatch) a try for a change of pace. I got interested in it from CrossFit workouts, where the oly lifts and their components are pretty much a staple. You can also get plenty of advice at T-Nation. If your squat is as strong as your BP, you would be a natural.

 I like how you think.  I will most likely not do the jerk portion of the exercise but was considering addding hang cleans back into my routine.  Too many knee surgeries(four) to try and get into the jerk portion of the exercise.  But hang cleans are one of the best lifts out there IMO.  I still haev not decided if I will change up my muscle groupings for this term or not.  If I do I could easily add hang cleans back into my workouts.  Having done them all through high school and college sports it should come back pretty quick.  Thanks

2006-09-15 10:35 PM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
I read your initial post but none of the responses, so forgive me if this has already been said.

I have not lifted in a long time, but am starting to get back into it. If you want to lift weights, I'd suggest you try Olympic style lifting. The lifts will help you develop a very well and evenly built frame without becoming huge. Of course that also depends on how much weight and your program, but it certainly isn't a bodybuilding approach intended to maximize the size of your muscles. Instead the focus is on building a fit, efficiently working body. All Olympic lifts consist of functional movements that work the entire body. The benefits are huge. There is a reason that so many other sports use O lifts as a key part of their cross training.



2006-09-16 12:12 AM
in reply to: #543164

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
CasaJJ - 2006-09-15 10:35 PM

I read your initial post but none of the responses, so forgive me if this has already been said.

I have not lifted in a long time, but am starting to get back into it. If you want to lift weights, I'd suggest you try Olympic style lifting. The lifts will help you develop a very well and evenly built frame without becoming huge. Of course that also depends on how much weight and your program, but it certainly isn't a bodybuilding approach intended to maximize the size of your muscles. Instead the focus is on building a fit, efficiently working body. All Olympic lifts consist of functional movements that work the entire body. The benefits are huge. There is a reason that so many other sports use O lifts as a key part of their cross training.



I am a fan of the Olympic lifts but I'll also be the first to admit that there really is no conclusive proof that the O lifts increase athletic skill better than a strength program built around heavy compound movements. Most strength coaches use the lifts because "that's what they've always done." But they are extremely fun to do which is reason enough to do them. I made the best gains ever on a program involving only power cleans, jerks, and squats. I still use only compound movements in my workouts and, other than doing some grip work here and there, hardly ever do isolation work on biceps and triceps.

For anyone who is having trouble learning the lifts, use one-arm versions of the lifts with a dumbbell and do them for higher reps. Not quite the same as doing the barbell versions, but we are, after all, triathletes, not Olympic lifters. IMO, a program using the one-arm versions for higher reps may even be better suited for endurance athletes because it will develop strength-endurance and anaerobic capacity. If you look at my training log, you'll see I do these fairly frequently with 24 kg and 32 kg kettlebells. At times I'll do some work with a 40 kg kettlebell. I prefer kettlebells, but they're pretty expensive, and dumbbells will do just fine. I list these as "power cleans" because there's no separate listing for "one arm kettlebell snatch."
2006-09-16 8:41 AM
in reply to: #539334

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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
Mike, I'm do some looking around in my old files to see if I can find a few papers on O lifts. There were a number of studies that did have results indicating a direct correlation to O lifts having more benefit over a regular weight program in developing athletic ability. That being said, most of the benefits were for non endurance sports where explosive and coordinated power was key, such as football, rugby, basketball and other sports like that. Not arguing your point, but simply adding some info to the pile to help everyone. Now, time to look for the files. :-)
2006-09-16 12:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
The Olympic lifts have always intrigued me. I'm going to incorporate them into my lifting wkouts. I have also wondered about plyometric workouts. I've read great things about how they help with fast twitch explosive type events- which is not really part of the tri movement, but still, there may be some benefit from them. Any comment? I've never used them but I am curious.....
2006-09-16 12:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

Here's an interesting paragraph from the CrossFit Foundations paper: http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/what-foundtn.html

"Numerous studies have demonstrated the Olympic lifts unique capacity to develop strength, muscle, power, speed, coordination, vertical leap, muscular endurance, bone strength, and the physical capacity to withstand stress. It is also worth mentioning that the Olympic lifts are the only lifts shown to increase maximum oxygen uptake, the most important marker for cardiovascular fitness."

It doesn't site the sources of the studies, but the part about the oly lifts increasing maximum oxygen uptake sounds useful for a triathlete.

2006-09-16 12:50 PM
in reply to: #539334

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Ottawa
Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
Lengle, the crossfit website is a great resource for info on O lifts.

One of the dangers with O lifts is how easily you can get injured when not using good form and/or lifting too much too early. You may want to check your area for a club. They will likely run workshops in which you can go and get some coaching on proper form.

Failing that, there are a number of past Crossfit Journal articles (check the site) that provide the best descriptions of proper form I have ever read. You can also video your lifts and post them on the Crossfit website to get feedback from others on the forum. Some of the regular Crossfit posters are amongst the top O lifting coaches in the world (e.g. Mike Burgoner sp?) and the ability to get their feedback online for free is pretty valuable.


2006-09-16 1:24 PM
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question

CasaJJ - 2006-09-16 1:50 PM Lengle, the crossfit website is a great resource for info on O lifts. One of the dangers with O lifts is how easily you can get injured when not using good form and/or lifting too much too early. You may want to check your area for a club. They will likely run workshops in which you can go and get some coaching on proper form. Failing that, there are a number of past Crossfit Journal articles (check the site) that provide the best descriptions of proper form I have ever read. You can also video your lifts and post them on the Crossfit website to get feedback from others on the forum. Some of the regular Crossfit posters are amongst the top O lifting coaches in the world (e.g. Mike Burgoner sp?) and the ability to get their feedback online for free is pretty valuable.

 Thanks CasaJJ. Actually, I've been into the O lifts and CrossFit for quite awhile, but you do make a good point about using good form. Not only will it prevent injury, but you can lift a heck of a lot more weight. Technique is everything; it's kind of like swimming in that regard. I'm also glad you mentioned Mike Burgener. He runs O lifting certifications for CrossFit and his website is an excellent resource: http://www.mikesgym.org/. I've used programs off of this site in the past. You might enjoy this - here's a link to a video on Mike's site of a 16 yr old monster snatching 320 lbs.

http://www.mikesgym.org/gallery/video/Snatch%2004012006.wmv

 

2006-09-16 2:25 PM
in reply to: #539334

Elite
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
Not arguing your point, but simply adding some info to the pile to help everyone.


Please do. I'm not arguing with you either - like I said, I really enjoy the lifts myself. The most famous, some would call infamous, study was the one done during the Mexico Olympics. However, I've been on other forums (fora?) where the study was cited but no one was ever able to find the actual study, so there was a question as to its authenticity.

As you mentioned, learning proper form is key. I managed to learn on my own, sort of. For the triathlete who is struggling to develop good swimming technique, cycling technique, and perhaps even running technique, all while going to work and raising a family, adding one more technical skill to master may be overwhelming. I recommend simplifying the process by just learning the power clean from the hang - no need to go from the floor and no need to learn the full squat version of the lift.
2006-09-16 2:33 PM
in reply to: #539334

Elite
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Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
Here's another good and free resource on learning the lifts.

http://www.danjohn.org/bp.pdf
2006-09-16 3:08 PM
in reply to: #539334

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Ottawa
Subject: RE: Weight lifting question
Thanks for the links guys.

Dan's site is a great resource as you mention.

Mike's son is a beast. His daughter is amazing also and her video clips on the CF site a great to learn from.
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