14 Hour Cut off Time Question..
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2006-11-07 8:05 AM |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. There is a rumor going around that the WTC is considering lowering the cutoff time to 14 hours. Good or bad for the sport? |
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2006-11-07 8:26 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Master 1641 Cambridge, MA | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. I assume you mean a 14 hour finish time cut off for Ironman... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon (see last sentences in the History section) and I think that would be unnecessarily harsh on the part of the WTC, given that: At one time there was no cut-off time, then a 15 hour time limit - for these events the normal time limit is now 17 hours. Some iron distance races (not sanctioned by the WTC corporation, but using the same standard distances) have different cut-off times. I think it'd drive a lot of people away from the Ironman(TM) events, but it could have the positive effect of more iron distance race participation. To me, that'd be a positive. It'd be negative in the sense that slower athletes may be jeered and dismissed as having done a slower time, equivalent distance race while only elite level triathletes get the brand-name Ironman finish.
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2006-11-07 8:30 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Veteran 262 Shelby Twp, MI | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. Definitely a negative in my book. Many people have future goals of completing the ironman distance, a reduction of 3 hours would eliminate many. |
2006-11-07 8:57 AM in reply to: #591135 |
, Texas | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. I think rumors are bad. They usually get people arguing about what is best and many times never come true.
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2006-11-07 9:04 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Champion 8936 | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. Must not be a widespread rumor. Hadn't heard that one anywhere. So without having done anything near an IM myself, this is my question. How many people who now do sub 14 hr IM's started out doing over 14 hr IM's? How many people learned invaluable things from their first races that they couldn't have possibly simulated in training? I don't see how limiting it further timewise in any way affects the faster folks. |
2006-11-07 9:09 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. bryancd - 2006-11-07 7:05 AM There is a rumor going around that the WTC is considering lowering the cutoff time to 14 hours. Good or bad for the sport? Please cite your source for this rumor or stop trolling.
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2006-11-07 9:10 AM in reply to: #591239 |
Elite 2796 Texas | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. coredump - 2006-11-07 9:09 AM bryancd - 2006-11-07 7:05 AM There is a rumor going around that the WTC is considering lowering the cutoff time to 14 hours. Good or bad for the sport? Please cite your source for this rumor or stop trolling.
Word. |
2006-11-07 9:11 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. It was discussed here: http://www.ironmantalk.com/Podcast.html ...and I hardly consider this trolling. It was an interesting topic I thought worthy of discussion, but thank you for your input. Edited by bryancd 2006-11-07 9:12 AM |
2006-11-07 9:16 AM in reply to: #591241 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. bryancd - 2006-11-07 8:11 AM It was discussed here: http://www.ironmantalk.com/Podcast.html ...and I hardly consider this trolling. It was an interesting topic I thought worthy of discussion, but thank you for your input. Which is not the WTC, and it's labeled on that page as 'GOSSIP'. You're welcome. |
2006-11-07 9:19 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. Well I think it would chase alot people the question is would it chase enough so these races do not fill up in 15 mins or would it drive too many people away from. The real question though does it matter? Will it hurt the sport? hmm possibly. I doubt most of us got into tris with the sole dream of finishing an IM. I hope its not true since I will be a long time before I think I can finish an IM in 14 hours. |
2006-11-07 9:20 AM in reply to: #591248 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. Yes, rumor, gossip, unsubstantiated, that's what I said! It simply raises an interesting topic for conversation as the overall popularity of Ironman grows. Isn't that what having a forum to discuss the sport is for? How is that trolling and why the hostility? |
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2006-11-07 9:22 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Master 1641 Cambridge, MA | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. I wouldn't call this trolling, but it's close. I'm downloading the podcast "source" now and will have a listen. The spirit of it here is for discussion, or at least that's how I interpreted, not scare-mongering or ****-stirring (pardon the french). I think it's fine to discuss it and we should have opinions on such issues as they could change the course of our sport, the way our races are held, and the image of Ironman finishers both past and future. Carry on. Talk about it. This is a discussion forum after all. Then Let WTC know if it really matters to you. |
2006-11-07 9:24 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Master 1641 Cambridge, MA | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. P.S. I'm not understanding the hostility here, but I did just see that BT.com doesn't allow for certain four-letter words. It put the *'s in there for me, how cute! |
2006-11-07 9:25 AM in reply to: #591173 |
Veteran 509 Oak Park, IL | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. not that it makes much difference but wikipedia is wrong in the statement that "Some iron distance races (not sanctioned by the WTC corporation, but using the same standard distances) have different cut-off times". In fact most of the non-North American IM races (sanctioned by WTC) have cut offs of 16 hours. For example IM France, IM Germany, and IM Switzerland all have 16 hour cut offs. I have heard there are actually a few IM events sponsored by WTC with 14 hour cut offs but I don't have time to look through all the FAQs to see if this is true. I wouldn't call the original poster a troll. Cause whether the original poster heard a VALID rumor or not about the possibility of 14 hours cuts off, the discussion of the need for a 14 hour cut off is and has been discussed on various boards for a long time. I guess one could read one of these discussions and call it a rumor. Some of the discussion include people with close ties to IMNA, WTC and even a few pros. fact that SunnyS - 2006-11-07 8:26 AM I assume you mean a 14 hour finish time cut off for Ironman... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon (see last sentences in the History section) and I think that would be unnecessarily harsh on the part of the WTC, given that: At one time there was no cut-off time, then a 15 hour time limit - for these events the normal time limit is now 17 hours. Some iron distance races (not sanctioned by the WTC corporation, but using the same standard distances) have different cut-off times. I think it'd drive a lot of people away from the Ironman(TM) events, but it could have the positive effect of more iron distance race participation. |
2006-11-07 9:26 AM in reply to: #591265 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. SunnyS - 2006-11-07 9:22 AM I wouldn't call this trolling, but it's close. I'm downloading the podcast "source" now and will have a listen. The spirit of it here is for discussion, or at least that's how I interpreted, not scare-mongering or ****-stirring (pardon the french). I think it's fine to discuss it and we should have opinions on such issues as they could change the course of our sport, the way our races are held, and the image of Ironman finishers both past and future. Carry on. Talk about it. This is a discussion forum after all. Then Let WTC know if it really matters to you. Thank you, that is the spirit in which the thread was intended. |
2006-11-07 9:29 AM in reply to: #591240 |
COURT JESTER 12230 ROCKFORD, IL | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. Bill - 2006-11-07 8:10 AM Begins with W, ends with D, OR in the middle….WORD!!!coredump - 2006-11-07 9:09 AM bryancd - 2006-11-07 7:05 AM There is a rumor going around that the WTC is considering lowering the cutoff time to 14 hours. Good or bad for the sport? Please cite your source for this rumor or stop trolling.
Word.
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2006-11-07 9:41 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. "In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, most often in the form of posting inflammatory, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate messages." Off-topic? No, but certainly inflammatory and divisive and the intention of the OP seems questionable. Do we really need to rehash the Marathon cutoff time limit thread? |
2006-11-07 9:47 AM in reply to: #591315 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. coredump - 2006-11-07 9:41 AM "In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, most often in the form of posting inflammatory, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate messages." Off-topic? No, but certainly inflammatory and divisive and the intention of the OP seems questionable. Do we really need to rehash the Marathon cutoff time limit thread? If it's a community, I assume it's open to new members willing to contribute in a positive manner. Nothing about the post indicated I was interested in starting a flame war, I just thought it was a good topic. I'm sorry you misunderstood my intentions and I wasn't here for the marathon discussion, so you will have to excuse me for that. |
2006-11-07 9:50 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Master 1641 Cambridge, MA | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. I think some of you guys are seriously over-reacting. I was staggeringly shocked when a blogger I followed to her IM-Wisconsin race was pulled off the course due to a cut-off time that she had *not* been told about. (IronWil of throughth3wall.com) Such cut-offs, even the discussion of such time limits, are of great interest to future IM'ers like myself. The speculation and rumor/gossip aspect of it doesn't make it less discussion-worthy. If you don't want to talk about it, you don't have to. Skip the thread. Easy! Maybe you've seen this topic a few too many times, but it's new to me. |
2006-11-07 9:53 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. Hi Bryan. Maybe to try to bring this thread back on-topic, what do you think of shortening all WTC IMs to a 14hr cut-off? Good or bad? For whom? |
2006-11-07 9:53 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Expert 994 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. good grief, you guys are really overreacting to the OP's question. Why don't you read it again: There is a rumor going around that the WTC is considering lowering the cutoff time to 14 hours. Good or bad for the sport? He didn't say "The WTC is lowering the cutoff time and I think that's awesome because it will get all the slow fat people off the course" And give me a break, there are so many statements not based in fact, and rumors posted on this site, so calling him a troll for that is a little overkill. |
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2006-11-07 9:58 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Champion 6993 Chicago, Illinois | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. marathon question was not ment to be a flame war but an open discussion. Problem I think we train too much. no social skills. Honestly though I almost tried to get into IMFL and if it moved to 14 hours I would be in so much trouble right now if I did get in. Honestly IM to 14 hours may only hurt the IM since alot more people will do non official IM distance races which in turn will grow and even more will probably popup. Thus maybe even destorying what it means to be an IM. Which was the whole point of the start marathon discussion. The other question though is if they go to 14 hours how does that effect the cutoffs? |
2006-11-07 9:59 AM in reply to: #591239 |
COURT JESTER 12230 ROCKFORD, IL | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. coredump - 2006-11-07 8:09 AM bryancd - 2006-11-07 7:05 AM There is a rumor going around that the WTC is considering lowering the cutoff time to 14 hours. Good or bad for the sport? Please cite your source for this rumor or stop trolling. CD, He called it a RUMOR and not a fact. Then posted a simple and harmless question for discussion. Time to close you eyes and go find that happy place in Kona and your sub-14 hour finish. Thank you. |
2006-11-07 10:01 AM in reply to: #591135 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. If that's not your intention, then I withdraw the 'troll' moniker. It just strikes me as a bit suspicious when a new user suddenly starts posting inflammatory topics. My past experiences lead me to view such actions as deliberate attempts to 'stir the pot' rather than elicit an actually meaningful discussion of the topic. Regarding the cutoff time lowering, if they did that, they would be effectively chopping off many of the older age groups from being able to compete. I just don't see that happening as the backlash against WTC would be immense. No more Frank Farrar. No more Sister Madonna. No more Jim McTeague (sp). If this is being proposed as a solution to the over-popularity of IM races ( selling out in under an hour now ), it's not going to be very effective. In actuality, if you enforce a narrower distribution curve of talent on IM distance races the courses are only going to get *MORE* crowded not less. Supply is smaller than demand. The 'market' will respond. We already saw the addition of IM Louisville. I suspect we'll see more. And there are serveral "Independant" IM distance races, which provide similar levels of support, and I foresee greater popularity for them. |
2006-11-07 10:11 AM in reply to: #591339 |
Champion 9600 Fountain Hills, AZ | Subject: RE: 14 Hour Cut off Time Question.. JohnnyKay - 2006-11-07 9:53 AM Hi Bryan. Maybe to try to bring this thread back on-topic, what do you think of shortening all WTC IMs to a 14hr cut-off? Good or bad? For whom? Hi Jhonny. When I first saw/heard this this morning on IronmanTalk, I wasn;t 100% sure how I felt. As triathlon has grown in popularity over the last few years, some feel it's been a victim of it's own marketing succes. IM races commonly fill up in an hour. For some, it's a race, for others, it's an affirmation. One of the great things about triathlon, as is often said, is that your average AG'er can toe the line with the pro's at every race. It's a true democracy of sport, an egalitarian endeavor for all. Does that lessen the accomplishment? As was pointed out, the 17 hour cutoff was a somewhat arbitrary decsison based on just trying to end the IM races by midnight. There is the precedent. If someone enters an IM race with every intention of walking the run and just squeek in under the cutoff, what is the impact on the nature of the event as a race? I personally feel that triathlon is a race, and should be treated as such, so I would not be adverse to lowering the cutoff time but recognize to do so really changes the nature and spirit of the sport. I'm conflicted. Could there be varying age group cutoff times or even qualification requirements to enter a Ironman event, not just for Kona? Edited by bryancd 2006-11-07 10:20 AM |
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