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2007-08-30 8:40 PM
in reply to: #926296

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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.
I would worry about the aspartame. Google it. It greatly increases your chances of brain tumors and migrane headaches, not to mention memory loss and confusion. It also makes you crave carbs. One of those great chemicals that NEVER should have been approved for consumption. The best part is it has culmulative effects over time, so it doesnt get out of your system, just builds up.

Edited by nhmorgan 2007-08-30 8:41 PM


2007-08-30 9:42 PM
in reply to: #926296

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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.

Lots of good points given here. One thing I have read repeatedly in articles (which my doctor confirmed) is that the phosphoric acid in carbonated cola drinks eats away at the calcium in your bones. Thus breaks are easier.

I recently read that 3 or more cans of carbonated cola and diet cola a day significantly affected bone mass. Although it is obviously more of an issue for women, who are susceptible to osteoporosis,  I'd still say drinking three liters can't be good for anyone.

2007-08-31 6:36 AM
in reply to: #948023

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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.

Complete nonsense.  Please use a source better than Google. 

nhmorgan - 2007-08-30 8:40 PM I would worry about the aspartame. Google it. It greatly increases your chances of brain tumors and migrane headaches, not to mention memory loss and confusion. It also makes you crave carbs. One of those great chemicals that NEVER should have been approved for consumption. The best part is it has culmulative effects over time, so it doesnt get out of your system, just builds up.

2007-08-31 9:36 AM
in reply to: #926671

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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.
paul walker - 2007-08-15 11:46 AM

WOW

Aloha and many many thanks all you good people. Lots of info here.

I guess what makes the most impression on me here is the effects of caffine and sweeteners. Really interested in the 'increasing desire for carbs' aspect. Of course the bucks aspect makes god sense to and I do consider myself to be smart! (Idid say consider myself, not sure anyone else would)

So my next question would be what should h2o consumption be? Any ideas or advice.

Mahalo all



Your body is still using the water in the soda to hydrate itself. So don't think that you are dehydrated due to the effects of caffine. You don't need to completely cut yourself off from it either... just limit your intake or decrease your intake.

Being active, like we all are, we need water more than the average bear. I would agree with the above postings of carrying a bottle of water around with you at work and refill it as you finish, and that you probably could use 90+oz of water a day or more. The easiest way to drink more water and less soda is to have it more readily available.
2007-09-18 5:55 PM
in reply to: #926296

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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.
One of the bad things any soda does is leach the calcium and phosphorus out of your bones.   I figure if I'm going nuts (according to my co-workers and family) exercising and training I don't need to be sucking good minerals out of the very system that support me in training.  An occasional diet coke is probably not a big  deal but 3 liters a day is asking for problems. I also have seen an increase in kidney stone pts at work who drink large amounts of soda +/or bottled ice tea.  Water is your bodies best friend (this from a 3 large cups of coffee a day fanatic)
2007-09-18 9:09 PM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.
For starters google is not a source. Secondly, your response is perhaps as useless as my post as far as actually providing any evidence. So here lets at least acknowledge that there is at least legitimate reason for concern regarding aspartame, and its potential as a carcinogen.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/12/business/yourmoney/12sweet.html?e...

As for me I will play it safe and steer well clear of the stuff, because in my experience when I stopped drinking it, I experienced a significant improvement in irritability, headaches, and mental clarity.

Edited by nhmorgan 2007-09-18 9:10 PM


2007-09-18 9:40 PM
in reply to: #970149

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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.

I'm assuming your response is to my post.

What evidence do you want me to provide?  I made no claims.  I merely pointed out that yours are baseless.  Again, you cite as a source an article rather than scientific literature.  Google all you want.  It doesn't further the point you're trying to make.

Honestly though, I got 2 paragraphs into the article you linked.  I've heard the same argument before and don't need it rehashed.  Things that are carcinogens at 10000X the intake any human could possibly consume aren't realistic threats to cause cancer in humans.  Do you avoid water too?  Drink 10 gallons a day and see how you feel.  Better yet, drink 1000 gallons and see.

Feel free to avoid it if you'd like.  Just expect that claims you make that aren't supported by objective evidence to be called out.

nhmorgan - 2007-09-18 9:09 PM For starters google is not a source. Secondly, your response is perhaps as useless as my post as far as actually providing any evidence. So here lets at least acknowledge that there is at least legitimate reason for concern regarding aspartame, and its potential as a carcinogen. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/12/business/yourmoney/12sweet.html?e... As for me I will play it safe and steer well clear of the stuff, because in my experience when I stopped drinking it, I experienced a significant improvement in irritability, headaches, and mental clarity.

2007-09-19 5:08 AM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.
If you had made it to paragraph 3 you would have seen that the dosage was equivalent to 4-5 diet cokes a day.
2007-09-19 5:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.
And you did indeed make a claim, that what I said was nonsense. I don't really understand the aggressive nature of your responses either.
2007-09-19 7:21 AM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.

Refuting a claim is not a claim.  This is like you asking me to provide evidence the Easter Bunny isn't real.

I don't find my response aggressive.  You made an absolute claim that has been made by many others over the years and dont' have evidenced to support that.  A single rat study that flies in the face of all the other available literature isn't nearly the evidence you need to make that sort of claim.  Even the article you cite states that it "may" be a carcinogen.  You add that to the existing body of literature concerning aspartame, and it doesn't mean much.

This is not a new argument, and you're not the first to believe what you do.  You're free to do whatever you'd like, but I'll continue to give people evidence based opinions so that they can make up their own minds.

nhmorgan - 2007-09-19 5:11 AM And you did indeed make a claim, that what I said was nonsense. I don't really understand the aggressive nature of your responses either.

2007-09-19 10:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.
I am really not looking to get into a match, especially since I am new around here, but since you want to get technical:

DerekL - 2007-09-19 8:21 AM

Refuting a claim is not a claim. 



Indeed it is, check you logic textbook. Claiming that a assertion is not true is itself an assertion.

DerekL - 2007-09-19 8:21 AM

This is like you asking me to provide evidence the Easter Bunny isn't real. 

Check your logic textbook again and you will find that this is called an inductive fallacy of false analogy, since it is indeed possible to prove a negative correlation, just as it is indeed possible to prove the absence of an Easter Bunny, and actually quite simple. Shall I come over and set up a camera in your kitchen this easter and leave an empty basket on the table?

DerekL - 2007-09-19 8:21 AM

You made an absolute claim that has been made by many others over the years and dont' have evidenced to support that.


I have cited a source above, you just didn't read it. It is a secondary source granted (The New York Times), but the article clearly cites it primary source. I can give you more though if you wish:
http://www.dorway.com/brainc.txt
from the Journal of Advancement in Medicing
http://www.ilo.org/public/english/protection/safework/cis/products/...
from the ILO's Safety hazard site about Methanol, on of the chemical that is left over from aspartame when it is broken down in the body.

In many of the studies that show no adverse effects, aspartame was not delivered in a manner similar to liquid ingestion, and so the results of these studies should at least be questioned.
Stegink LD, Filer LJ Jr, Bell EF, Ziegler EE. Plasma amino acid concentrations in normal adults administered aspartame in capsules or solution: lack of bioequivalence. Metabolism. Volume 36, Issue 5, Pages 507-512

http://www.dorway.com/monte84.html
from the journal of applied nutrition, again the effects of methanol

DerekL - 2007-09-19 8:21 AM

This is not a new argument, and you're not the first to believe what you do.


This point is irrelevant, especially given the subject of the thread. But, it is worth nothing that all this information IS new to a lot of people, just as it was when I first encountered it at a time when I was routinely consuming 4-5 can of diet coke a day. I am grateful that I know that at least it is something I should considering in my dietary choices. It is not something that should be discarded as offhandedly as your post suggests. As I stated above, we should at least agree that it is a controversial issue, and there there is no clear conclusion at this point in time. There is however convicing arguments and evidence on both sides. With that in mind, I prefer to err on the side of caution, and am grateful for any knowledge that allows me to do so.



2007-09-19 11:02 AM
in reply to: #970616

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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.

Check your logic textbook again and you will find that this is called an inductive fallacy of false analogy, since it is indeed possible to prove a negative correlation, just as it is indeed possible to prove the absence of an Easter Bunny, and actually quite simple. Shall I come over and set up a camera in your kitchen this easter and leave an empty basket on the table?

I disagree here.  I believe that you can prove a negative correlation but you cannot disprove a negative absolute.  Your camera and basket only proves that the Easter Bunny was not in your kitchen on Easter morning.  It does not disprove his existence.  What if the camera gets knocked over and suddenly the basket is full.  That wouldn't prove the existence of the Easter Bunny any more than the existence of aliens or Santa Claus.  All it proves is something knocked over the camera and the basket is now filled.  Frankly it doesn't even prove that the person or object that knocked over the camera filled the basket.  Just my .02 for mental gymnastics.

2007-09-19 11:15 AM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.
Which brings up the point, that it is a bad analogy. Can you prove within a range that a reasonable person would accept that aspartame does not cause cancer? Yes. Has that been established? No.
Can you prove absolutely only through experimentation? No, but science rarely deals in absolutes, and it is more a semantic argument that I asserted an absolute than it is a reality that someone would interpret what I said as an assertion of scientific absolute that diet coke will cause cancer in anyone that drinks it 100 percent of the time, or even that diet coke has been proven to have a 100 percent correlation to brain cancer. That is part of the issue I have with the resonse I got.

Back to the easter bunny though, can you ever prove without a shadow of a doubt that the Easter bunny doesn't exist? No, of course not. But with the proper experimental controls you can get close enough to remove all reasonable doubt.

Edited by nhmorgan 2007-09-19 11:17 AM
2007-09-19 11:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.

define reasonable...

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Bigfoot_risks_extinction_says_Canad_05...

I enjoy the circular arguments it keeps me busy instead of working. I do agree that you can gather enough evidence to remove doubt from all but the most insane people.  I don't even disagree with you.  I feel better since I stopped drinking soda but it might be all in my head.  I really won't be doing scholarly research on the topic but hey I like debate.

2007-09-19 12:14 PM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.

The answer is no.  You can make statistically significant inferences from the data over a population, but you don't prove anything.

If you read your own post, you're saying the same thing and contradicting yourself in the process.

nhmorgan - 2007-09-19 11:15 AM Which brings up the point, that it is a bad analogy. Can you prove within a range that a reasonable person would accept that aspartame does not cause cancer? Yes.

2007-09-19 12:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.
DerekL - 2007-09-19 1:14 PM

The answer is no.  You can make statistically significant inferences from the data over a population, but you don't prove anything.

If you read your own post, you're saying the same thing and contradicting yourself in the process.

nhmorgan - 2007-09-19 11:15 AM Which brings up the point, that it is a bad analogy. Can you prove within a range that a reasonable person would accept that aspartame does not cause cancer? Yes.



Your going to have to make sense, because what you just said doesn't. I said "CAN you prove within a range that a reasonable person would accept." You CAN do that, but research on aspartame HASN'T done that.


2007-09-19 12:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.
Christris - 2007-09-19 12:26 PM

define reasonable...

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Bigfoot_risks_extinction_says_Canad_05...

I enjoy the circular arguments it keeps me busy instead of working. I do agree that you can gather enough evidence to remove doubt from all but the most insane people.  I don't even disagree with you.  I feel better since I stopped drinking soda but it might be all in my head.  I really won't be doing scholarly research on the topic but hey I like debate.



You got me all excited about reading a bigfoot sighting to prove that my bigfoot sighting wasn't a lie.... and then the link doesn't work
2007-09-19 1:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.

You keep saying "prove".  Despite your protestations to the contrary, you don't prove anything with studies.  You can draw conclusions, make inferences, etc. as I stated.  What I said makes perfect sense despite your not understanding it.

nhmorgan - 2007-09-19 12:46 PM
DerekL - 2007-09-19 1:14 PM

The answer is no.  You can make statistically significant inferences from the data over a population, but you don't prove anything.

If you read your own post, you're saying the same thing and contradicting yourself in the process.

nhmorgan - 2007-09-19 11:15 AM Which brings up the point, that it is a bad analogy. Can you prove within a range that a reasonable person would accept that aspartame does not cause cancer? Yes.

Your going to have to make sense, because what you just said doesn't. I said "CAN you prove within a range that a reasonable person would accept." You CAN do that, but research on aspartame HASN'T done that.
2007-09-19 2:04 PM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.
Ok smart guy, your only defense is to revert to intentional semantical misinterpretations, but since you are so smart, tell me how the very first definition of the verb to prove in in OED "To demonstrate, establish" does not fit the usage I just gave you. Prove does not mean absolute, but rather to demonstrate or establish. So, lets substitute either of those words for prove, and see if your repsonse works....

Can you establish within a range that a reasonable person would accept that aspartame does not cause cancer? Yes

Can you demonstrate within a range that a reasonable person would accept that aspartame does not cause cancer? Yes

But let's not be anchored to just one acceptable definition of to prove lets see if some others fit too:

6a. To put (a person or thing) to the test.
6b. To subject (any natural, prepared, or manufactured substance or object, to a testing process.
6c. To make a trial of something.
And the phrasal form:
To establish (something) as successful or workable; (also) to test (a system or process) exhaustively.


Edited by nhmorgan 2007-09-19 2:05 PM
2007-09-19 2:46 PM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.

Yes, I'm the one arguing semantics.  Let's reread the diatribe you just posted.

The ironic thing is that part of your current argument speaks against your original point.  You just don't know it.

nhmorgan - 2007-09-19 2:04 PM Ok smart guy, your only defense is to revert to intentional semantical misinterpretations, but since you are so smart, tell me how the very first definition of the verb to prove in in OED "To demonstrate, establish" does not fit the usage I just gave you. Prove does not mean absolute, but rather to demonstrate or establish. So, lets substitute either of those words for prove, and see if your repsonse works.... Can you establish within a range that a reasonable person would accept that aspartame does not cause cancer? Yes Can you demonstrate within a range that a reasonable person would accept that aspartame does not cause cancer? Yes But let's not be anchored to just one acceptable definition of to prove lets see if some others fit too: 6a. To put (a person or thing) to the test. 6b. To subject (any natural, prepared, or manufactured substance or object, to a testing process. 6c. To make a trial of something. And the phrasal form: To establish (something) as successful or workable; (also) to test (a system or process) exhaustively.

2007-09-19 2:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Please explain the evils of diet coke.
We've now gone way off topic as well here.  Best to let it just die.


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