Training zones

Wondering about that too, but also with just how "slow" this might be. Many people think they can't run the really slow & easy paces at first, but do learn how to do it.

+1 on what Ben said.  It takes some time learning how to pace SLOWLY.

Here is the earlier mentioned link for anyone having trouble with it. It's from the team usa site, but seems to be a form of 220-age formula. Like the performance based ones more, like what Hot Runner has suggested. The formula is more of an average that can work well enough for a number of people, but not everyone. The deviations happen enough that they are not really outliers. I can go past the HR max the formula comes up with and still be within Z4. They offer some other max HR formulas in the lower paragraphs, but are still all age-based. I'll still go over these too.

Just a point of clarification in that this was bcagle, not me. 

That teamusa link would have me seriously undertraining.  This BT article link hasn't been posted yet so here it is.  It's the testing protocol for doing the LTHR field test that can be performed for running and biking.  Take a read and see if its something you can do.  There's also a large thread linked in the article via the Q&A.

This information came out when I decided to training using a HRM and do my 1st HIM.  I learned a lot training with LTHR zones and it helped me understand my RPE for each zone, over time the HRM became less important to me. 

To show how much a formula can be off, take a look at the following. This is what the method on teamusa has for my running zones vs the zones based on doing the field LTHR test (bolded).  Quite a bit of difference.  Here's the kicker, my LTHR threshold hasn't changed over time, its has pretty much stayed in the accuracy of the testing of ~ a 4 bpm range since 2005.  The Karvonen method further has me slowly lowering the zones since it uses my age.

Karvonen, LTHR (threshold=176)
Z1 L - 118, 117
Z1 H - 131, 149
Z2 L - 132, 150
Z2 H - 137, 160
Z3 L - 139, 161
Z3 H - 144, 168
Z4 L - 145, 169
Z4 H - 156, 175
Z5 L - 158 176
Z5 H - 169 180

Yes, we also race in the same general area.

Think it may have been better received if it was simplified to harder/easier runs instead of so many zones. What was said before cam across as rather haphazard training and does lead to people getting hurt. I like the idea of less zone specific too to help with simplicity, but also with introducing the idea of controlling the effort to some degree. A number of ways to do that too. One could be to give it at least a couple days of easy regardless of how one feels before doing something faster than easy again. Especially since this seemed to be in regards to running.

For me, this is one of the fun things about discussing training...two different experienced people coming at an issue from two different directions, and neither one is wrong.  They're both completely valid approaches.  Personally, my approach would be somewhere between the two.  I'd emphasize consistency in training for a few weeks using RPE, but wouldn't wait more than 3 or 4 weeks before I did some testing to begin to get a better handle on where the athlete's zones are.

Well they could both be wrong. Just saying ...