Discussions on training after adductor tendonitis, swimming drills, training after 3 down base weeks from allergies to get ready for a HIM, hill drills, Computrainer courses vs outside rides and more.
[tolefanjh] Still working on my getting my base back, still fighting the adductor tendonitis as well, though it hasn't flared up in a few weeks now.
[Amy Kuitse] How did you get tendonitis in your adductor?
[tolefanjh] It appears that it's a result of one adductor being much weaker than the other. I've been working on a few things to build some strength.
[Amy Kuitse] How's the strengthening going?
[tolefanjh] It's helping, I haven't had any issues for about 6 weeks now. Running and riding aren't any trouble, swimming depends on the stroke, breast stroke can start to bother it if I do it for too much.
[Amy Kuitse] That makes sense with the breast stroke causing irritation.
[tolefanjh] On your recommendation I'm doing a duathlon training plan, though I'm taking a "Swimming for Fitness" class at work/college right now
[Amy Kuitse] Good, how is the plan working out for you for the Du training? It is great that you are taking a swim class.
[tolefanjh] The plan is working well, I'm still slow, but I can feel it coming back, I've dropped 6-7lbs since I've been more consistent as well, still not where I was last year but starting to get back. The swimming is helpful, need to get in on some off days to work more on my freestyle, but the class in itself is building my endurance, we spend about 75 minutes in the pool doing various things.
[Amy Kuitse] Good to hear that the plan is working well and you are seeing improvement. be patient as you continue with the plan. your continued consistency will pay off as well as the swimming.
[rkreuser] Just lurking. I don't have an issue, other than staying healthy. Just thought I'd see what's up. Unless you're trolling for questions, of course.
[Amy Kuitse] We are just chatting, nothing in particular and it's good you don't have any issues!! How's the training going?
[rkreuser] Err, don't ask. It was fantastic through May. Then...I got the crud. I've basically taken June off. Re-evaluating EVERYTHING.
[Amy Kuitse] Sorry about the crud, are you recovering from it?
[rkreuser] Short answer...as of yesterday, yes. But it took me two weeks to pinpoint what was causing it. So from here on out, I'm recovering. But that's 3 solid weeks of zeros.
[Amy Kuitse] What did you have? The truth is you were probably better off taking the time off and getting rid of it. Somethings we can do some light training through and other stuff, but it's just better to take the time off!
[rkreuser] Allergies. When it got warm enough to sleep with the windows open, I did. Enter the pollen. But I had congestion that wouldn't quit...I was sure it was what I call "pool nose', the little drip you get after swimming...but it wasn't, it was allergies....and it crawled down into the lungs. Didn't put 2+2 together for a while. So Claritin and AC are making me happy. So I'm taking a really structured HIM plan and jerry-rigging it for the next 7 weeks.
[Amy Kuitse] Aahhh, the allergy thing! Good job on taking it easy.
[rkreuser] Yeah, it just took 3 really solid build weeks out of the schedule, and it casts a shadow. I'm winging it now. Semi-formed base. Been swimming at goal pace for quite a while, distance no problem...so take that out of the equation. Biking mileage has been minimal...but when I actually do ride, it's been going well. Can sustain goal pace for 30-40 miles. Run mileage has been actually 25 miles for the last 3 months. All racing, no training to speak of.
[Amy Kuitse] Are you looking to try to go back into the training plan as it had you a track for a race? In my opinion I think you need a combination of distance and strength. Did you do in hill training on the bike leading into the 1/2IM? I also like increased efforts in lengths that work on goal pace
[rkreuser] Here's the deal...goal race is 7 weeks out. It's a HIM. I've also got another half scheduled in 4 weeks. So...I don't feel compelled to swim. But do feel compelled to put a full court press on the run, and maintain / build the bike as time permits. Is that out of line? So not much z1/2, more race pace push?
[Amy Kuitse] I don't think it is out of line to want to work on the run & bike, but I'd work slowly on the run so as not to irritate the lungs. Take the next week and work zone 1-2 to make sure that you don't have any issues, then the next week to 10 days you can put some good efforts in and then into a taper.
[rkreuser] Exactly. Week one, everything Z1/2. After that, I'll have a hill session, a speed session, and a tempo/long session every week, in addition to a recovery or two. Plan is 5 runs a week, increasing from 25 to maybe 40 miles a week.
[Amy Kuitse] I think you need time between the HIM's to train and/or you treat one of these HIM's like a hard training day. I know that this time of year can be hard on allergies & asthma and the heat & humidity can really make things tough. Did you run up to 40 miles before?
[rkreuser] The plan for HIM #1 (not the A-race) is to go hard on the swim and bike, and for 3 miles on the run. Then shut it down.We'll take it as it comes. Want to make sure transition works, and that I hit a decent HR getting into steady run pace. But I know I can't sustain it, so I'm not gonna try.The other option is not racing the HIM, and just train through it. The real hidden question was 'whether to do the first HIM'. And I think the answer is 'yes', just manage the run. Make sure it's productive. And maybe I'll even surprise myself.
[Amy Kuitse] I'd recommend getting your HR under control heading out of T2 and then taking yourself into that increased effort, especially if you are looking at finishing the entire run. You could break the run down into 3-4 parts.
[chirunner134] Amy, have your ever tried the Halo Swim Trainer? It's supposed to help with the catch and pull. I found I do not keep my elbow high enough when I pull. Is there anything I can do in the pool to help me remember to keep a high elbow in the water?
[Amy Kuitse] I must admit that I am big on drills. Definitely have time during each swim when you spend pure focus on keeping the elbows high. That probably sounds like common sense, but if you are doing interval work and getting fatigued as the workout goes on, you are going to be focusing on different things.
[chirunner134] I tend to also forget to do drills.
[Amy Kuitse] I truly have drills in my training plan every week in all three of the disciplines and I have everyone that I work with do drills in all 3 disciplines each week. You can have a drill day that still has some other work in it, tempo or intervals and a longer swim.
[chirunner134] I am weak on the bike. For my next race am I better biking the course over and over or should I do more things like hill work and intervals on the bike?
[Amy Kuitse] I would spend more time doing some hill work and intervals of 2 x 15' at race pace and increase the number of intervals and then the time. A drill day on the bike is great....one legged drills when you are on a flat course on an easy recovery day. Regarding the run, my drill day on the run usually comes at the beginning of the week. An easy recovery run and then drills with pick-ups.
[rkreuser] For instance, periods of tempo, then, in the middle of the ride, throw in 5x2' of max effort. Or some interval. What do you think, Amy?
[Amy Kuitse] You could do that, but I'd lean more toward tempo work on one day, hill work on another day or the shorter max efforts for LT that you mentioned. You tend to see folks working on hill repeats early in the season on the run & ride as it builds power and strength, but everyone has different schedules and different reasons for how their training goes.
[rkreuser] Really? Wow..maybe I'll PM you my ride schedule, see what you think of it. It's aggressive.
[Amy Kuitse] What do you think is different about it? The other thing is I'm not saying you wouldn't ride hilly courses, but you may not be as likely to be doing hill repeats in July as you would in may, make sense?
[chirunner134] Are hill repeats useful if your going to bike on a flat course though?
[Amy Kuitse] Absolutely, as they build power & strength! What about a workout on the bike to focus on LT...like a descending ladder?
[rkreuser] I'm completely Neanderthal. I've got 2, maybe 3 workouts total in my arsenal, based on where I can ride.
[Amy Kuitse] What kind of terrain do you have to ride on?
[rkreuser] The course I ride is rollers to hills. Nothing Colorado-esque. But in the hundreds of feet up and down, 9 mile loop. No problem to do in 12-23, though. So nothing big.
[Amy Kuitse] Same for me, but you can still get hill work in on a spinner or go out and ride in big gears at lower RPMs.
[rkreuser] Anyway, we'll spend one day riding tempo. Maybe 21 or 22 mph, just effort.
[Amy Kuitse] You can ride in bigger gears at 65-70RPM's, do intervals with this, to simulate race pace for longer climbs.
[rkreuser] Then, there are probably 6 hills around the loop, so one day, we'll do nothing but spin, but hammer up the hills.
[Amy Kuitse] Yep, sounds good!
[rkreuser] Then, the speed day, we'll basically do a series of 4 or 5 TT loops, maybe 22 minutes each.
[Amy Kuitse] Yep, zone 1-2 between those hills that you will ride up into zone 3-4....and you have a recovery day ride right?
[rkreuser] Ummm, that's a forward looking statement. That's usually a spin class. for me. And all of this is in the bars. No roadie in the equation.
[Amy Kuitse] I have learned that recovery rides are also dependent on the people you ride with.
[rkreuser] Exactly. I love spin class recovery, because you're in charge of your effort. And you can fake it.
[chirunner134] Now I want to drop weight and not worried so much about speed and such. Would recovery days still help me out?
[Amy Kuitse] Recovery days & weeks are so important because they allow you to absorb all the good hard work you have done. They let your "recover" so you can complete the upcoming hard work well.
[rkreuser] Amy, are you a 3-on, 1-off proponent, or a 10-on, 3 off proponent? Length of build cycles are hot topics right now... That would be 3 weeks on, 1 week of, or 10 days on, 3 days off...
[Amy Kuitse] I am a big 2:1 person for myself and 99% of the people I coach. You really seem to get a good 10+ days of training out of yourself and then seem to need a recovery period.
[rkreuser] So 10 on, 5 off? When I say off, it's still on, but just at a reduced effort to grow?
[Amy Kuitse] The one thing you can do is use the weekend at the end of your recovery week for some volume again...as long as you have recovered well the 5 days prior. This however, is different for everyone. Reduced volume and always take a day off in the recovery week. I'm a big advocate of a day off during the recovery week. I think it is as much a mental break as a physical break. I think as we change as triathletes our needs change, tolerances, etc. time gives us experience and that can't be forced, but it does change us.
[chirunner134] Is 3 days a week good for each sport?
[Amy Kuitse] Yes, as long as you are tolerating it and it meets your current fitness level? Is that working for you?
[chirunner134] No, but I have not gotten into that habit. I tend to go from focus to focus, bounce around too much and not do everything that constantly.
[Amy Kuitse] Consider looking at the plan again and trying to get in time on all 3 disciplines. You will feel more prepared leading into race day and on race day. You can spend time in the off season doing sport specific work, but now is the time to be training all 3 and looking at race day nutrition!
[chirunner134] My goal is to is to survive and I barely did at Rockman and Spirit of Racine will be alot hotter.
[Amy Kuitse] So you want to make sure that you are training all 3 sports and get yourself out on some hilly rides & runs to prep for Racine.
[chirunner134] I have a CT so I can do the Racine course. Not sure if that will be useful or not. Or if I would be better off training on even hillier courses?
[Amy Kuitse] I think if you can ride some of the course on the CT that would be helpful for your own knowledge but riding outside on hilly courses will be even better yet. Just my opinion, this time of year it is hard to sit on a bike inside.
[chirunner134] Well I think its easier. Biking outside is scary. [Amy Kuitse] Don't be afraid to ride those hills outside!!
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June 2007 Triathlon Training Chat with Coach Amy
Discussions on training after adductor tendonitis, swimming drills, training after 3 down base weeks from allergies to get ready for a HIM, hill drills, Computrainer courses vs outside rides and more.
[tolefanjh] Still working on my getting my base back, still fighting the adductor tendonitis as well, though it hasn't flared up in a few weeks now.
[Amy Kuitse] How did you get tendonitis in your adductor?
[tolefanjh] It appears that it's a result of one adductor being much weaker than the other. I've been working on a few things to build some strength.
[Amy Kuitse] How's the strengthening going?
[tolefanjh] It's helping, I haven't had any issues for about 6 weeks now. Running and riding aren't any trouble, swimming depends on the stroke, breast stroke can start to bother it if I do it for too much.
[Amy Kuitse] That makes sense with the breast stroke causing irritation.
[tolefanjh] On your recommendation I'm doing a duathlon training plan, though I'm taking a "Swimming for Fitness" class at work/college right now
[Amy Kuitse] Good, how is the plan working out for you for the Du training? It is great that you are taking a swim class.
[tolefanjh] The plan is working well, I'm still slow, but I can feel it coming back, I've dropped 6-7lbs since I've been more consistent as well, still not where I was last year but starting to get back. The swimming is helpful, need to get in on some off days to work more on my freestyle, but the class in itself is building my endurance, we spend about 75 minutes in the pool doing various things.
[Amy Kuitse] Good to hear that the plan is working well and you are seeing improvement. be patient as you continue with the plan. your continued consistency will pay off as well as the swimming.
[rkreuser] Just lurking. I don't have an issue, other than staying healthy. Just thought I'd see what's up. Unless you're trolling for questions, of course.
[Amy Kuitse] We are just chatting, nothing in particular and it's good you don't have any issues!! How's the training going?
[rkreuser] Err, don't ask. It was fantastic through May. Then...I got the crud. I've basically taken June off. Re-evaluating EVERYTHING.
[Amy Kuitse] Sorry about the crud, are you recovering from it?
[rkreuser] Short answer...as of yesterday, yes. But it took me two weeks to pinpoint what was causing it. So from here on out, I'm recovering. But that's 3 solid weeks of zeros.
[Amy Kuitse] What did you have? The truth is you were probably better off taking the time off and getting rid of it. Somethings we can do some light training through and other stuff, but it's just better to take the time off!
[rkreuser] Allergies. When it got warm enough to sleep with the windows open, I did. Enter the pollen. But I had congestion that wouldn't quit...I was sure it was what I call "pool nose', the little drip you get after swimming...but it wasn't, it was allergies....and it crawled down into the lungs. Didn't put 2+2 together for a while. So Claritin and AC are making me happy. So I'm taking a really structured HIM plan and jerry-rigging it for the next 7 weeks.
[Amy Kuitse] Aahhh, the allergy thing! Good job on taking it easy.
[rkreuser] Yeah, it just took 3 really solid build weeks out of the schedule, and it casts a shadow. I'm winging it now. Semi-formed base. Been swimming at goal pace for quite a while, distance no problem...so take that out of the equation. Biking mileage has been minimal...but when I actually do ride, it's been going well. Can sustain goal pace for 30-40 miles. Run mileage has been actually 25 miles for the last 3 months. All racing, no training to speak of.
[Amy Kuitse] Are you looking to try to go back into the training plan as it had you a track for a race? In my opinion I think you need a combination of distance and strength. Did you do in hill training on the bike leading into the 1/2IM? I also like increased efforts in lengths that work on goal pace
[rkreuser] Here's the deal...goal race is 7 weeks out. It's a HIM. I've also got another half scheduled in 4 weeks. So...I don't feel compelled to swim. But do feel compelled to put a full court press on the run, and maintain / build the bike as time permits. Is that out of line? So not much z1/2, more race pace push?
[Amy Kuitse] I don't think it is out of line to want to work on the run & bike, but I'd work slowly on the run so as not to irritate the lungs. Take the next week and work zone 1-2 to make sure that you don't have any issues, then the next week to 10 days
you can put some good efforts in and then into a taper.
[rkreuser] Exactly. Week one, everything Z1/2. After that, I'll have a hill session, a speed session, and a tempo/long session every week, in addition to a recovery or two. Plan is 5 runs a week, increasing from 25 to maybe 40 miles a week.
[Amy Kuitse] I think you need time between the HIM's to train and/or you treat one of these HIM's like a hard training day. I know that this time of year can be hard on allergies & asthma and the heat & humidity can really make things tough. Did you run up to 40 miles before?
[rkreuser] The plan for HIM #1 (not the A-race) is to go hard on the swim and bike, and for 3 miles on the run. Then shut it down.We'll take it as it comes. Want to make sure transition works, and that I hit a decent HR getting into steady run pace. But I know I can't sustain it, so I'm not gonna try.The other option is not racing the HIM, and just train through it. The real hidden question was 'whether to do the first HIM'. And I think the answer is 'yes', just manage the run. Make sure it's productive. And maybe I'll even surprise myself.
[Amy Kuitse] I'd recommend getting your HR under control heading out of T2 and then taking yourself into that increased effort, especially if you are looking at finishing the entire run. You could break the run down into 3-4 parts.
[chirunner134] Amy, have your ever tried the Halo Swim Trainer? It's supposed to help with the catch and pull. I found I do not keep my elbow high enough when I pull. Is there anything I can do in the pool to help me remember to keep a high elbow in the water?
[Amy Kuitse] I must admit that I am big on drills. Definitely have time during each swim when you spend pure focus on keeping the elbows high. That probably sounds like common sense, but if you are doing interval work and getting fatigued as the workout goes on, you are going to be focusing on different things.
[chirunner134] I tend to also forget to do drills.
[Amy Kuitse] I truly have drills in my training plan every week in all three of the disciplines and I have everyone that I work with do drills in all 3 disciplines each week. You can have a drill day that still has some other work in it, tempo or intervals and a longer swim.
[chirunner134] I am weak on the bike. For my next race am I better biking the course over and over or should I do more things like hill work and intervals on the bike?
[Amy Kuitse] I would spend more time doing some hill work and intervals of 2 x 15' at race pace and increase the number of intervals and then the time. A drill day on the bike is great....one legged drills when you are on a flat course on an easy recovery day. Regarding the run, my drill day on the run usually comes at the beginning of the week. An easy recovery run and then drills with pick-ups.
[rkreuser] For instance, periods of tempo, then, in the middle of the ride, throw in 5x2' of max effort. Or some interval. What do you think, Amy?
[Amy Kuitse] You could do that, but I'd lean more toward tempo work on one day, hill work on another day or the shorter max efforts for LT that you mentioned. You tend to see folks working on hill repeats early in the season on the run & ride as it builds power and strength, but everyone has different schedules and different reasons for how their training goes.
[rkreuser] Really? Wow..maybe I'll PM you my ride schedule, see what you think of it. It's aggressive.
[Amy Kuitse] What do you think is different about it? The other thing is I'm not saying you wouldn't ride hilly courses, but you may not be as likely to be doing hill repeats in July as you would in may, make sense?
[chirunner134] Are hill repeats useful if your going to bike on a flat course though?
[Amy Kuitse] Absolutely, as they build power & strength! What about a workout on the bike to focus on LT...like a descending ladder?
[rkreuser] I'm completely Neanderthal. I've got 2, maybe 3 workouts total in my arsenal, based on where I can ride.
[Amy Kuitse] What kind of terrain do you have to ride on?
[rkreuser] The course I ride is rollers to hills. Nothing Colorado-esque. But in the hundreds of feet up and down, 9 mile loop. No problem to do in 12-23, though. So nothing big.
[Amy Kuitse] Same for me, but you can still get hill work in on a spinner or go out and ride in big gears at lower RPMs.
[rkreuser] Anyway, we'll spend one day riding tempo. Maybe 21 or 22 mph, just effort.
[Amy Kuitse] You can ride in bigger gears at 65-70RPM's, do intervals with this, to simulate race pace for longer climbs.
[rkreuser] Then, there are probably 6 hills around the loop, so one day, we'll do nothing but spin, but hammer up the hills.
[Amy Kuitse] Yep, sounds good!
[rkreuser] Then, the speed day, we'll basically do a series of 4 or 5 TT loops, maybe 22 minutes each.
[Amy Kuitse] Yep, zone 1-2 between those hills that you will ride up into zone 3-4....and you have a recovery day ride
right?
[rkreuser] Ummm, that's a forward looking statement. That's usually a spin class. for me. And all of this is in the bars. No roadie in the equation.
[Amy Kuitse] I have learned that recovery rides are also dependent on the people you ride with.
[rkreuser] Exactly. I love spin class recovery, because you're in charge of your effort. And you can fake it.
[chirunner134] Now I want to drop weight and not worried so much about speed and such. Would recovery days still help me out?
[Amy Kuitse] Recovery days & weeks are so important because they allow you to absorb all the good hard work you have done. They let your "recover" so you can complete the upcoming hard work well.
[rkreuser] Amy, are you a 3-on, 1-off proponent, or a 10-on, 3 off proponent? Length of build cycles are hot topics right now... That would be 3 weeks on, 1 week of, or 10 days on, 3 days off...
[Amy Kuitse] I am a big 2:1 person for myself and 99% of the people I coach. You really seem to get a good 10+ days of training out of yourself and then seem to need a recovery period.
[rkreuser] So 10 on, 5 off? When I say off, it's still on, but just at a reduced effort to grow?
[Amy Kuitse] The one thing you can do is use the weekend at the end of your recovery week for some volume again...as long as you have recovered well the 5 days prior. This however, is different for everyone. Reduced volume and always take a day off in the recovery week. I'm a big advocate of a day off during the recovery week. I think it is as much a mental break as a physical break. I think as we change as triathletes our needs change, tolerances, etc. time gives us experience and that can't be forced, but it does change us.
[chirunner134] Is 3 days a week good for each sport?
[Amy Kuitse] Yes, as long as you are tolerating it and it meets your current fitness level? Is that working for you?
[chirunner134] No, but I have not gotten into that habit. I tend to go from focus to focus, bounce around too much and not do everything that constantly.
[Amy Kuitse] Consider looking at the plan again and trying to get in time on all 3 disciplines. You will feel more prepared leading into race day and on race day. You can spend time in the off season doing sport specific work, but now is the time to be training all 3 and looking at race day nutrition!
[chirunner134] My goal is to is to survive and I barely did at Rockman and Spirit of Racine will be alot hotter.
[Amy Kuitse] So you want to make sure that you are training all 3 sports and get yourself out on some hilly rides & runs to prep for Racine.
[chirunner134] I have a CT so I can do the Racine course. Not sure if that will be useful or not. Or if I would be better off training on even hillier courses?
[Amy Kuitse] I think if you can ride some of the course on the CT that would be helpful for your own knowledge but riding outside on hilly courses will be even better yet. Just my opinion, this time of year it is hard to sit on a bike inside.
[chirunner134] Well I think its easier. Biking outside is scary.
[Amy Kuitse] Don't be afraid to ride those hills outside!!
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