Lactate Threshold / HR training- Question...

Your age and beginner-status are not all that relevant.  (If they were, then those age-based formulas would work better than they do and you could save yourself the torture of the field test.)

I did the same thing as you on my first attempt to do a field test.  The test I did was the one here on BT -- warm-up, then 30 minute TT, using your average over the last 20 minutes as your LTHR.  I flamed out midway through the final 20 minutes.  It was a valuable lesson.

My advice (based not on expertise but just on my experience) is to wait a week and try again.

How often in your workouts have you seen 195? How did that make you feel?

Can you really sustain a hr of 189-194? Its called Anearobic Endurance? For how long can you run at that pace? Remember your body uses different fuel sources during varying heart rates. You most likely have only 2 hours of glycogen stored, 119 hours of fat stored, and seconds of ATP.

Should I build a better endurance first?  Hard to know what pace/HR to train at to build the endurance?

I sustained a HR of 189-194 for probably 4-5 minutes before i had to slow down and catch my breath, etc....  That's why my average over the 15 minutes was 184.  I'm sure i started out too fast for certain.

I probably rarely see 195, but I did see it yesterday on the TT during the 15 minutes....  Of course i was panting breath and couldn't sustain it at all.

Overall, I could feel my legs burning and tired after 10 minutes, but i kept trying to push through the 20 minutes, but couldn't do the full 20.  My legs are sore today.  I believe i was running at about an 8 - 8:30 pace/mi.  My 5k race time is somewhere around 30-32 minutes, if that's any indication.

I want to build up my endurance and work on my pace?

Edited by pilotzs 2009-08-07 8:08 AM

You went too hard on the TT.  That's clear.  If you feel that you can't really DO the TT (which would mean, lower the effort to what you can just sustain for the full time) then train until you can.  But I'd suggest that if you were going at an appropriate effort, then you probably could do the field test.

Another option is to train by pace for a while until you are more comfortable with your field test results.  You can plug your 5k time in here (McMillan pace calculator) to generate some ballpark appropriate training paces.

I think i can complete the TT, but i'm guessing it would be much closer to my 5k race time, maybe a bit faster (based on time).  I was pushing it too hard to start and just burned out.

I'll see about trying again next week to see what happens.  Right now, i'll look at pace more than HR.  I plugged in my 5k race time in the VDOT, and looks like i need to slow down my training runs a bit to help build the endurance.  Easy pace would be 12:40/mile and Marathon Pace would be 11:00/mile.

McMillan seems similar to these also, maybe a little slower.  On the McMillan, do I want to stay away from the "Stamina Runs" during my training?  Is this like being in Zone 3 training, if equated to HR?

Will i naturally start seeing improvement in pace/time?  Or are there certain workouts I need to include to help increase my pace?  Of course i need to focus on endurance first...

It's easy to overdo it until you gain some experience with pacing.  I did the same thing, and I'm still not convinced that I've got it exactly right.


Yes, I've heard it said many times that one of the most common beginner mistakes is going too hard too often.  I certainly made this mistake.  If you don't fix it, the result will be ugly.  Trust me on that.



I'm not really qualified to give you highly specific training advice; others more expert than I may chime in, but here's what I believe:  there is no such thing as an 'inappropriate training pace' but only an inappropriate amount of time spent at a given pace.   If you are trying to build mileage, then most of your training should probably be relatively easy.  You should feel like you could go back out and do it again.  A small amount of your training should be at a harder pace.  There are many ways to achieve that.  I often just pick up the pace for a while during my runs, either in the middle, or at the end.  (Right now, I'm following a plan, so I pick it up when the plan says to pick it up...)  Or a good thing to do, especially before you have built up tolerance for longer 'intervals' or tempo runs, is to throw 8 to 10 30s strides into the middle of your run.

The number one thing, though, is to listen to your body.  If you can tolerate more harder workouts and you recover from them quickly, then why not?  If you are getting bogged down or are starting to feel little nagging injuries, ease up.

Again, that's just what I believe, based on, well, not much.

Thank you for your help and suggestions, they are very helpful.... 

I'm doing my first tri in September (a short one sprint try it on), but am looking to follow that up with a 1/2 marathon in November, so picking up my running is needed to build on a solid foundation.  I don't want to overdo it and train incorrectly, while trying to build mileage.

I would like to build on my biking and swimming over the winter and get into some sprint and maybe Oly Tri's next spring, summer.  I may even try to build to a HIM by next fall (I was looking at the Austin, TX HIM, potentially).

Short answer to your question is the test is invalid. I belive most would agree with this. As per several coaching sources, field run TT test requires 30min all out effort, measured in a such a way that you do not blow up nor you drasticaly slow down during the test. It is the last 20min of the test that count for an avg HR in order to determine you LTHR. You can refference Joe Friel, Gordo Byrn, Mike Ricci articles and books on propper testing and results interpretation protocols.
I would suggest, rest, recover. Write down your pre test routine, to include food/timing, warm up, test protocol. Study it up and comply/ execute. You  are much better off starting a little slower and building into it. Even if you don't leave it ll out during the test, only danger you are running is that your LTHR will be little lower and intensity in training as a result may be a little lower. If you go out too hard, your tested HR maybe over your LTHR, depending on your menatl abillity to tolerate disscomfort. That surely leads into a bigger problem of having your zones set too high that would lead to overtraining at some point.

just to add

WHEN you retest.. take note of the distance you went.     after a while you will notice that your LT doesn't change all that much but you are going much farther during your test