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A take on the green jersey competition
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  2009-07-27 5:35 AM |
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| 2009-07-27 7:04 AM in reply to: #2309408 |
 Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: A take on the green jersey competition I agree Chris. But I can't believe you're siding with a guy from the Isle of Man... |
| 2009-07-27 7:16 AM in reply to: #2309474 |
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| 2009-07-27 9:26 AM in reply to: #2309408 |
Expert 1139   Austin | Subject: RE: A take on the green jersey competition IMO I look at the Green Jersey competition like Formula 1 racing. Since they're racing for points I think there needs to be a greater disparity between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. How the guy that won 6 stages of the tour loses out to a guy who only one a single stage has to seem crazy to anyone who doesn't understand the points racing. |
| 2009-07-27 9:28 AM in reply to: #2309787 |
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| 2009-07-27 12:16 PM in reply to: #2309787 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: A take on the green jersey competition F1longhorn - 2009-07-27 10:26 AM IMO I look at the Green Jersey competition like Formula 1 racing. Since they're racing for points I think there needs to be a greater disparity between 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. How the guy that won 6 stages of the tour loses out to a guy who only one a single stage has to seem crazy to anyone who doesn't understand the points racing. I think it depends on how the TdF views it. My guess is that they'll say. Cavendish should work to win within our rules, out rules shouldn't change to help one guy. Does F1 give points for winning the poll? NASCAR gives points for winning the poll, leading a (one) lap, and for leading the most lap. Those points are very nominal (5 points for each-as compared to 100 I think for winning). |
| 2009-07-27 12:45 PM in reply to: #2309408 |
Champion 6627  Rochester Hills, Michigan Gold member | Subject: RE: A take on the green jersey competition I see your point, Chris...a few other points. The green jersey has a known point structure, known points awards, and Cav chose to not contest those intermediate sprints and focus on stage wins...he skipped the step where you do the math to see if that will result in Green and if you need to change your tactics. Cav can respond two ways: Continue to win stages only and risk not winning green, or have an answer for Thor and the intermediate sprint points (more fitness on Cat 2 climbs). I would hope that he will respond like Cippolini or Petacchi did, or Thor did, and learn to haul his butt up a mountain in any other spot than the autobus. And the green jersey, IMHO, did exactly what it was supposed to do this year...keep interest in a competition and give the media a focal point for something other than the overall GC contender. It did exactly that, and I think the TDF wants it to stay that way. 20 teams, multiple title sponsors, only 1 GC winner - the tour needs a competition like the Green Jersey. Never mind that the fastest guy didn't get the jersey...it's the competition. |
| 2009-07-27 1:23 PM in reply to: #2310401 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: A take on the green jersey competition rkreuser - 2009-07-27 1:45 PM I see your point, Chris...a few other points. he skipped the step where you do the math to see if that will result in Green and if you need to change your tactics. When you say Autobus, you mean a large peloton at the back that barely crosses right and not an actual bus that picks-up the riders? I just want to make sure. Did you ever see the underpants gnomes episode of South Park? It's kinda applicable in this context: Step 1: Ride Fast Step 2: ? Step 3: Win green jersey... |
| 2009-07-27 4:06 PM in reply to: #2310401 |
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| 2009-07-27 7:05 PM in reply to: #2311029 |
| Champion 6627 Rochester Hills, Michigan Gold member | Subject: RE: A take on the green jersey competition CHR15 TREE - 2009-07-27 5:06 PM rkreuser - 2009-07-27 6:45 PM I see your point, Chris...a few other points. The green jersey has a known point structure, known points awards, and Cav chose to not contest those intermediate sprints and focus on stage wins...he skipped the step where you do the math to see if that will result in Green and if you need to change your tactics. Cav can respond two ways: Continue to win stages only and risk not winning green, or have an answer for Thor and the intermediate sprint points (more fitness on Cat 2 climbs). I would hope that he will respond like Cippolini or Petacchi did, or Thor did, and learn to haul his butt up a mountain in any other spot than the autobus. And the green jersey, IMHO, did exactly what it was supposed to do this year...keep interest in a competition and give the media a focal point for something other than the overall GC contender. It did exactly that, and I think the TDF wants it to stay that way. 20 teams, multiple title sponsors, only 1 GC winner - the tour needs a competition like the Green Jersey. Never mind that the fastest guy didn't get the jersey...it's the competition. I'm not cause Cav is British or because I think he should have won green, I just think that their should be a prize based upon finish line points... with points available on the line (on the climbing stages too, maybe)! It's a view I have held since Zabel (from McEwan?) won green a few years back without even 1 stage win... just consistantly scoring points on the road (or preventing the other sprinters collecting the points by sending team amtes up the road) and finishing consistantly high... I guess the same thing could be said about the yellow jersey sometimes, not necessarily the strongest or fastest rider but the one is able to play defence the best! I spent the afternoon / evening at the pub with a buddy, who happened to be a Scot. We discussed this at length, and ended up actually agreeing that the green jersey awards all-around and consistency more than the fastest guy in a finish line sprint. It's up to the organizers to change the weighting and mid-stage awards if they'd like to make it different. |
| 2009-07-27 10:40 PM in reply to: #2311029 |
| Champion 26509 Sydney | Subject: RE: A take on the green jersey competition CHR15 TREE - 2009-07-28 7:06 AM rkreuser - 2009-07-27 6:45 PM I see your point, Chris...a few other points. The green jersey has a known point structure, known points awards, and Cav chose to not contest those intermediate sprints and focus on stage wins...he skipped the step where you do the math to see if that will result in Green and if you need to change your tactics. Cav can respond two ways: Continue to win stages only and risk not winning green, or have an answer for Thor and the intermediate sprint points (more fitness on Cat 2 climbs). I would hope that he will respond like Cippolini or Petacchi did, or Thor did, and learn to haul his butt up a mountain in any other spot than the autobus. And the green jersey, IMHO, did exactly what it was supposed to do this year...keep interest in a competition and give the media a focal point for something other than the overall GC contender. It did exactly that, and I think the TDF wants it to stay that way. 20 teams, multiple title sponsors, only 1 GC winner - the tour needs a competition like the Green Jersey. Never mind that the fastest guy didn't get the jersey...it's the competition. I'm not cause Cav is British or because I think he should have won green, I just think that their should be a prize based upon finish line points... with points available on the line (on the climbing stages too, maybe)! It's a view I have held since Zabel (from McEwan?) won green a few years back without even 1 stage win... just consistantly scoring points on the road (or preventing the other sprinters collecting the points by sending team amtes up the road) and finishing consistantly high... I guess the same thing could be said about the yellow jersey sometimes, not necessarily the strongest or fastest rider but the one is able to play defence the best! Funny you mention the Zabel/MCEwen example.... Robbie has said many many times that his focus is on stage wins nad not intermediary sprints.. if/when he win the green jersey its a result of what happens on the finish line not elsewhere on course.... How the green jersey competition plays out does depend on the course designed by the raceorganisers.... if you want to keep it interesting I think designing a course where there are lots of intermediate opportunities to take points means Cav doesnt walk all over it I love both Thor and Cav... Cav was the best finisher.... Thor played the tactics required for the green jersey in the guidelines of the competition.... This is technically also possible with the KOM jersey... get lots of points in the smaller mountain stages in breakaways and potentially its not the BEST climber that wins (surely the best climber would be Contador even through Pellizotti is fantastic) |
| 2009-07-28 1:46 AM in reply to: #2309408 |
| Extreme Veteran 767 Alexandria, VA | Subject: RE: A take on the green jersey competition Im gonna say that there's already an award for winning the stage, and Cav is already going down in the record books for winning the most stages. I think the green jersey is a competition seperate of stage wins and it rewards - obviously - a different set of tactics. The Tour de France is an endurance event, and the Green Jersey is about Endurance as much as the GC. It rewards consistently being in front throughout the entire event, not just the end of the stage. Just my thoughts, I like it the way it is. |
| 2009-07-28 5:12 AM in reply to: #2311693 |
| Subject: ... This user's post has been ignored. |
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