swim coach (long)

sounds like your coach is not very interested.
Can you find another one through some reccomandations?
Do you know any friend that can swim and help you, even by jst watching and giving suggestions?
Have you tried the local master swim team? There are a lot of nice people and somebody may be willing to help you.

From a distance I can say: start by concentrating on going slow and relaxed till you can swim a good distance without stopping.
I learned by myself that way. Don't worry about speed yet. Just try and go as long as you can by relaxing as much as you can. Tr not to kick too hard (which usually happens when you are nervous and insecure). Kicking uses a lot of "oxigen" (spelling) and will get you out of breath faster.

Sounds like the coach is almost a waste. I could tell you to swim as far as you can from here by email :-) I (and several others) bought the Total Immersion book. I am just starting out and it helps you to understand what you should feel like in the water and has mostly drills. I added a little more swimming to increase endurance.

A tip from TripleThreat is when swimming as long as you can, do breast or back stroke for a length when you need to to get HR down and oxygen caught up.

The "coaches" at the YMCA where I swim are very friendly compassionate people. Whenever I mention something that I have read from the TI website, they react as if I've given them the 11th and 12th commandments or something. They simply do not seem to know the mechanics of swimming. I don't know that they've ever been taught or shown. I'm sure they passed the swimming and CPR tests, and know a bit about keeping kids safe in the water. But, there's a difference between coaching swimming and being a "swim coach".

There's a master's swimmer at the YMCA that also teaches swimming. Her and I talk quite a bit (i.e., I have her watch my swimming and critique me). She talks about everything from wrist angles upon hand entry and distancebetween fingers on the pull, etc. To say she knows swimming inside and out is an understatement.

My advice to you would be to go to the Total Immersion website, and read some of the articles. There's an article that is intended to go with the DVD, but I foud the article to be very helpful on its own.

I am also a bad swimmer. I think I just don't do enough of it. I love cycling and running but the swimming I can take or leave. I have really failed to improve my swimming over the three years I've been doing triathlons. I think I need to actually get out and just swim as much as I can. I've read a lot of swimming stuff but I can't seem to be able to take good advice when it comes to swimming. It's frustrating because I know it is important but can't make myself do it. If you swim better you automatically do better on the bike and if you do better on the bike you automatically do better on the run. Mark Allen, Dave Scott, Tim Deboom and Luc Van Lierde all started out as swimmers. I just can't make myself do it. Working on form and evrything is all fine and good but if you look at pictures from tris or video they all have their heads up, they all have a choppy short stroke and they all all staying close in the pack to get a good draft. It seems form goes out the window and it all comes down to being strong. It all comes down to the run but the swim comes first.

My fear exactly is that I will spend all this time on form and learning to swim and come race day it turns out that all I do is churn and burn with everyone else. That is what it looks like in the swim starts that I have seen. How do you get into a rhythm when you are in a pack of whitewater. Praticing in open water is one thing but starting in a pack is quite another.

All I can say is that I am sticking with the TI type method and focused on making swimming a strength or at least a neutral as far as the race. I have started with the basics this week and that is just learning to balance. I have a long way to go but have arranged my training to work on swimming 4-5 days/week for 20-30 min's until I get comfortable. Hopefully then it will just be a matter of 3 times per week and getting it ingrained in my head what I am doing. I think it goes back to how much time is spent in the water.

thanks for the reply's. i went and got the book fitness swimming. so i think that will help. also i went to total imersion site. lot's of info.
what i think i need to do is work on drills and work on swimming to build up my distance. i have to find a balance between the 2.
i am making progress but it's very slow. i will keep plugging away. i have to get up to a half mile by June race time. i will do it.
like you said triple there is a difference in coaching. what i need is a tri related coach. some one who has knowledge of tri swimming. i should have tried to talk to other tri people before i got a coach. before i started getting on these forums i thought a coach was a coach. but there is a lot more to it than that
maybe my coach does not have the knowledge of this type of swimming.
i will have to find some one.
i think i can do it on my own but it would be nice to have some one who can check my progress and give me tips.
thanks everyone
John

Disclaimer: This is being written by someone that has never raced, and is secondhand info from what I have read/heard/seen.



This is the difference between racing and swimming laps. They have their heads up so they can ensure they are swimming in a straight line and avoiding contact. No one wants to train all year and swim into a foot resulting in a broken nose and a DNF.

The short, choopy stroke is due to lack of space. Once they get out a ways it changes into a fluid stroke. I talk quite a bit with a father of one of my students who does tris,and that's how he describes it also. It's pure havoc at the start, then folks settle in to their pace, and then finish with a fury.



See above. It starts out fast, then slower, then finishes fast. I have read multiple folks saying that when approaching the race, you should train the swim this way ... fast as possible, then slowing to a fluid stroke, then finish as fast as possible ... just as you do in a race.

Other folks I have talked to, AGs not looking to win, just say they hang out, slow down, let all the crazies get out there, swim at their pace, and then say "Hello again" as you pass them on the bike and run.

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I'll say this and it's not trying to sound macho, mean, arrogant, etc .... but if people know they are slow swimmers and rush to the front of the starting pack ... do not complain when you are swam over. I, for one, will not hesitiate to swim right over the top of someone who is swimming much slower than I. I didn't train hard this long, to have a "slow driver in the fast line" add minutes to my time. I'm certainly not going to "hang back" just so I "don't offend".

If you're a slower swimmer (and I likely am too) and you know you're not going to finish top 10, then just let everyone (including yourself) enjoy the race. Hang back, swim your pace, conserve your energy, etc. Don't "lane block" others b/c from what I can tell, most folks, even AG'ers have the "get outta may way or else" type attitude when racining. Race day is not a lap swim.

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Before my races, I plan to look at my swim times and check the previous race results and see where I fit in. I won't fool myself by thinking "It's a race, I'll swim 10:00 faster than when training, and then rush to the front, when I should be in the back. where you start isn't a reflection of where you'll finish. Being "at the front" during the first part of the swim is not as important as being near the front during the run.

If I'm swimming and blocking a faster swimmer from passing, I expect them to go over the top of me, or push me out of the way, etc. It is race day. I have heard that it gets somewhat brutal at the start (intentionally and unintentionally). So, plan ahead and have your strategy (and stick to it). Either get in there and "fight for position", or hang back and go at your pace, and kick butt on the bike and swim.

Edited by TripleThreat 2004-01-15 10:12 AM

The swim starts aren't really that bad. I actually really enjoy the swim on race day. It's nice and relaxing despite the crowds and it being my weakness. I like water starts better than beach starts. Something about being in the water calms those race day nerves.

Mac,
It sounds like you have a very "typical" swim coach that doesn't pay much attention to technique.
Check out my website at www.triswimcoach.com. I offer free information on triathlon swimming, as well as an e-Guide called The Complete Guide to Triathlon Swimming, which includes a training plan, that you can purchase and download right on the site.

I focus mostly on technique in my coaching sessions, and strictly technique for beginners. Technique is much more important for triathletes than any kind of interval work or speed work. Those should come later, after you've mastered technique.

Any questions, please email me [email protected].

Cheers,
Kevin
www.triswimcoach.com

wow, for me the swim starts are the worst part of the race. It's like swimming in a blender. I usually hang to the outside. I'll catch the people I'm going to beat, which isn't many, and the rest won't get to kick me.

I am sure no offense was meant, but as a swim coach myself, I do not find this to be "typical" of most swim coaches. The vast majority of coaches that I know do focus on technique as that is by far the easiest way to produce improvement, particularly in older children and adults. It seems to me that there are a lot of people out there calling themselves coaches. Before I would shell out any more of my hard earned dollars, I would find a USA Swimming certified coach, observe him/her in action and fully explain what your goals and expectations are. While I agree that reading up on stroke technique can be valuable, a well-trained coach observing you and providing feedback is your best bet for getting you and your son off to a good start with your swim training. Good luck, I know with a little effort you will find a coach that is a good fit for both of you.

Hermom,

You are correct that there are many age-group (USA) coaches out there that are qualified and give plenty of technique help to their swimmers. However, as we are talking about triathletes here, I assume we are dealing with Masters coaches. I have swum for many masters teams in my life, and although there are some GREAT coaches out there, the more "typical" coaches I have come across do not give much feedback to their swimmers as far as technique goes. The prevailing attitude out there is usually more yardage and tighter intervals. However, you may have a different experience and I respect that.

Cheers,
Kevin
www.triswimcoach.com