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2012-08-24 11:34 PM

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Subject: lgb athletes
It occurred to me awhile back, basically when I came out as bi, that in professional sports there are basically no gay or bi pros. From high school til now I've known that sports players can be quite homophobic to us men if we're not straight since we're perceived as being unmanly, girly, etc. The attitudes that many gay athletes face is just insulting especially for the younger ones still in school. It would be great to have a role model in sports or sports people start talking up for our support. Just my nightly rant


2012-08-25 12:30 AM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes

You mean none that are 'out' right?  Because I'm thinking statistically, there almost have to be some.  

 

2012-08-25 4:04 AM
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evb4mvp - 2012-08-24 12:34 AM It occurred to me awhile back, basically when I came out as bi, that in professional sports there are basically no gay or bi pros. From high school til now I've known that sports players can be quite homophobic to us men if we're not straight since we're perceived as being unmanly, girly, etc. The attitudes that many gay athletes face is just insulting especially for the younger ones still in school. It would be great to have a role model in sports or sports people start talking up for our support. Just my nightly rant

 

Well, since no other athletes have solved the problem by coming out, it looks like it's up to you to HTFU and win an IM so there can be an "out" elite athlete! ;^)   good luck!

2012-08-25 5:18 AM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes

In the four major professional sports in the U.S. (basketball, football, baseball, hockey), you are right, there are very few men that have come out as gay or bisexual.

If you're an age-grouper in triathlon, though, there are SO MANY outstanding prospects, both as role models, and ... uh ... very nice friends to have.

My understanding is that it's pretty miserable to be gay in high school in the U.S., athletics or no. I do see how the common HS sports and their accompanying culture would add additional pressure, though.

Greg Louganis.

2012-08-25 7:19 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
evb4mvp - 2012-08-24 11:34 PM

It occurred to me awhile back, basically when I came out as bi, that in professional sports there are basically no gay or bi pros. From high school til now I've known that sports players can be quite homophobic to us men if we're not straight since we're perceived as being unmanly, girly, etc. The attitudes that many gay athletes face is just insulting especially for the younger ones still in school. It would be great to have a role model in sports or sports people start talking up for our support. Just my nightly rant


Why does sexuality matter? Being gay or straight doesn't make one less of an athlete so the issue is void.

Edited by travelmama 2012-08-25 7:20 PM
2012-08-25 7:37 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
TriAya - 2012-08-25 5:18 AM

In the four major professional sports in the U.S. (basketball, football, baseball, hockey), you are right, there are very few men that have come out as gay or bisexual.

If you're an age-grouper in triathlon, though, there are SO MANY outstanding prospects, both as role models, and ... uh ... very nice friends to have.

My understanding is that it's pretty miserable to be gay in high school in the U.S., athletics or no. I do see how the common HS sports and their accompanying culture would add additional pressure, though.

Greg Louganis.

Greg Louganis is an old man, whatever he experienced doesn't compute in today's world.  

My son is a high school athlete....he couldn't care less who is straight or gay....he says the rest of his friends are the same.

I don't think you're right Yanti....I think the poster previous to this one has it right.....who cares? I hear much more woofing from the gay/bi community than I do the straight community.  I can speak for myself and my circle of friends.....it's a non-issue.



2012-08-25 7:54 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
Left Brain - 2012-08-25 7:37 PM
TriAya - 2012-08-25 5:18 AM

In the four major professional sports in the U.S. (basketball, football, baseball, hockey), you are right, there are very few men that have come out as gay or bisexual.

If you're an age-grouper in triathlon, though, there are SO MANY outstanding prospects, both as role models, and ... uh ... very nice friends to have.

My understanding is that it's pretty miserable to be gay in high school in the U.S., athletics or no. I do see how the common HS sports and their accompanying culture would add additional pressure, though.

Greg Louganis.

Greg Louganis is an old man, whatever he experienced doesn't compute in today's world.  

My son is a high school athlete....he couldn't care less who is straight or gay....he says the rest of his friends are the same.

I don't think you're right Yanti....I think the poster previous to this one has it right.....who cares? I hear much more woofing from the gay/bi community than I do the straight community.  I can speak for myself and my circle of friends.....it's a non-issue.

Wow, great to hear. Where do you live? My sons are very open minded and we have gays in our family so not a big deal. However my boys have told me if jocks came out their lives would be miserable! Of course, I live in Texas. Plenty of gay kids in school but not the big manly sports. I wish more athletes would come out.
2012-08-25 8:04 PM
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We're in the Midwest.  I was pretty surprised to hear it myself....but these kids are much smarter than we were.  I have made it a point to ask my kids about bullying in school and which kids get picked on, etc.  What I got was very eye opening to me.  My son told me "nobody picks on people, that's not cool."  My son is 14 and a varsity athlete.....I doubt his take on the matter at his school is wrong. 

And yeah, I thought it was great to hear as well.



Edited by Left Brain 2012-08-25 8:06 PM
2012-08-25 8:07 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
It depends on where you are looking.  There are several Olympic Athletes that are open about it.  Do they hold it as a banner above their head?  no.  But if you are just looking at NBA, NFL, MBL...then yeah.  You aren't going to find many people who are going to "out" themselves in that environment.
2012-08-25 8:45 PM
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lifejustice - 2012-08-25 8:07 PM It depends on where you are looking.  There are several Olympic Athletes that are open about it.  Do they hold it as a banner above their head?  no.  But if you are just looking at NBA, NFL, MBL...then yeah.  You aren't going to find many people who are going to "out" themselves in that environment.

Oh, but it's coming.....kids don't care, or at least enough of them don't care that they can make a real difference.

2012-08-25 9:07 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes

Former Olympic swimmer and gold medalist Mark Tewksbury was the chef de mission for the Canadian team at the London Olympics.  He came out in 1998 and has since become an outspoken advocate for LGBT rights and causes.

I was very impressed by the way he handled himself in his role as chef de mission and I think that he makes a great role model for anyone - whether you're gay or straight.

I'd like to see him go into politics.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Tewksbury



2012-08-25 10:09 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
Left Brain - 2012-08-25 6:37 PM
Greg Louganis is an old man, whatever he experienced doesn't compute in today's world.  



52 is old?
2012-08-25 10:12 PM
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I'm 52............is it young?  When you look at where technology and science is today compared to when Greg and I were kids....I'm sorry.....we're old.  Maybe not physically....but in every other way we are.  

This discussion was about how kids treat gay people....in that regard, we are dinosaurs.



Edited by Left Brain 2012-08-25 10:14 PM
2012-08-26 9:44 AM
in reply to: #4380344

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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
KeriKadi - 2012-08-25 8:54 PM
Left Brain - 2012-08-25 7:37 PM
TriAya - 2012-08-25 5:18 AM

In the four major professional sports in the U.S. (basketball, football, baseball, hockey), you are right, there are very few men that have come out as gay or bisexual.

If you're an age-grouper in triathlon, though, there are SO MANY outstanding prospects, both as role models, and ... uh ... very nice friends to have.

My understanding is that it's pretty miserable to be gay in high school in the U.S., athletics or no. I do see how the common HS sports and their accompanying culture would add additional pressure, though.

Greg Louganis.

Greg Louganis is an old man, whatever he experienced doesn't compute in today's world.  

My son is a high school athlete....he couldn't care less who is straight or gay....he says the rest of his friends are the same.

I don't think you're right Yanti....I think the poster previous to this one has it right.....who cares? I hear much more woofing from the gay/bi community than I do the straight community.  I can speak for myself and my circle of friends.....it's a non-issue.

Wow, great to hear. Where do you live? My sons are very open minded and we have gays in our family so not a big deal. However my boys have told me if jocks came out their lives would be miserable! Of course, I live in Texas. Plenty of gay kids in school but not the big manly sports. I wish more athletes would come out.

That is why I'm mainly surprised, with our changing attitudes, especially over the past few years. I'd love to see the day where no one simply cared if about your sexuality, religion or lack of it, or anything.

2012-08-26 10:45 AM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes

I actually just mentioned Greg Louganis with no explanation whatsoever -- whatever anyone extrapolates from that is their own perception, nothing more.

In my mind, however, he's the only really well-known gay U.S. pro athlete. Ever. I could be very, very wrong, but please provide more examples.

I guess I'm old too, although I spent a lot of time with teenagers until 2009. And that was in Los Angeles area, so insofar as the subject came up, yes, young people in general were very tolerant, even high school athletes. But I have no way of generalizing that to the entire country.

There are quite a few gay Olympic champions, but as to the OP's question, I'm assuming he's from the U.S. and talking about popular pro sports there. I'm also assuming he's a he because he looks like one in his avatar.

2012-08-26 11:44 AM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
travelmama - 2012-08-25 7:19 PM

evb4mvp - 2012-08-24 11:34 PM

It occurred to me awhile back, basically when I came out as bi, that in professional sports there are basically no gay or bi pros. From high school til now I've known that sports players can be quite homophobic to us men if we're not straight since we're perceived as being unmanly, girly, etc. The attitudes that many gay athletes face is just insulting especially for the younger ones still in school. It would be great to have a role model in sports or sports people start talking up for our support. Just my nightly rant


Why does sexuality matter? Being gay or straight doesn't make one less of an athlete so the issue is void.


As a gay girl, I humbly disagree.

For many, sexuality doesnt matter. But for many, it still does. Gay people are still spit on, called all sorts of derogatory names, were looked upon as an abomination and abandoned/shunned by our families. Youth are commiting suicide after being mocked about thier sexality.

Plenty of folks think all gays and lesbians are only interested in sex. And simply glancing at someone in a locker room can be construed as a come on.




2012-08-26 12:07 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes

Rebekah Keat is out and proud. Astonishing Ironman athlete, very active on social media.

I used to think that sexuality doesn't matter but this was from my easy position as a hetrosexual, white, family man from metropolitan London.  It was only when I talked to my gay friends and started hearing some of the stories that I realised what a lonely existence it can be to be on the end of that sort of abuse.

Society has an obligation to pro-actively ensure that everyone is welcome and valued in a community - passive acceptance is not enough.

2012-08-26 12:17 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes

evb4mvp - 2012-08-24 11:34 PM It occurred to me awhile back, basically when I came out as bi, that in professional sports there are basically no gay or bi pros. From high school til now I've known that sports players can be quite homophobic to us men if we're not straight since we're perceived as being unmanly, girly, etc. The attitudes that many gay athletes face is just insulting especially for the younger ones still in school. It would be great to have a role model in sports or sports people start talking up for our support. Just my nightly rant

Well, I have to start by saying the above comment isn't true. You probably meant that there aren't any "out" professionals. That's not true either. I personally know PLENTY that are. Just because they are "out" doesn't mean they want to be an out ambassador of all things LGBT/Sports either. So, while they might be out they aren't screaming it from the top of the mountains. 

You might be right though. That sport needs those people that are willing to be "out and proud" and live as an example to so many who are too ashamed or are led to believe it is wrong. 

I'm not sure if any of you guys have seen the documentary Training Rules, but it profiles Penn State's women's basketball coach Rene Portland. She had coached for 23 years with these rules:

no drugs

no drinking and no lesbians

Action wasn't taken against her until 2006. 2006!!!! I know sometimes I like to think that I don't live in a world where sexuality matters...but it does. And I couln't agree more with the above statement "Society has an obligation to pro-actively ensure that everyone is welcome and valued in a community - passive acceptance is not enough."

I guess I also have to re-think my own passive acceptance and realize that being more pro-active will make the world a better place for the next generations. 

2012-08-26 5:00 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
Well I think we've all been enlightened recently on what kind of institution Penn State is.....
2012-08-26 5:45 PM
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TriAya - 2012-08-26 10:45 AM

I actually just mentioned Greg Louganis with no explanation whatsoever -- whatever anyone extrapolates from that is their own perception, nothing more.

In my mind, however, he's the only really well-known gay U.S. pro athlete. Ever. I could be very, very wrong, but please provide more examples.

I guess I'm old too, although I spent a lot of time with teenagers until 2009. And that was in Los Angeles area, so insofar as the subject came up, yes, young people in general were very tolerant, even high school athletes. But I have no way of generalizing that to the entire country.

There are quite a few gay Olympic champions, but as to the OP's question, I'm assuming he's from the U.S. and talking about popular pro sports there. I'm also assuming he's a he because he looks like one in his avatar.

 

Cheese and crackers.

2012-08-26 9:45 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
Asalzwed - 2012-08-26 11:17 AM

evb4mvp - 2012-08-24 11:34 PM It occurred to me awhile back, basically when I came out as bi, that in professional sports there are basically no gay or bi pros. From high school til now I've known that sports players can be quite homophobic to us men if we're not straight since we're perceived as being unmanly, girly, etc. The attitudes that many gay athletes face is just insulting especially for the younger ones still in school. It would be great to have a role model in sports or sports people start talking up for our support. Just my nightly rant

Well, I have to start by saying the above comment isn't true. You probably meant that there aren't any "out" professionals. That's not true either. I personally know PLENTY that are. Just because they are "out" doesn't mean they want to be an out ambassador of all things LGBT/Sports either. So, while they might be out they aren't screaming it from the top of the mountains. 

You might be right though. That sport needs those people that are willing to be "out and proud" and live as an example to so many who are too ashamed or are led to believe it is wrong. 

I'm not sure if any of you guys have seen the documentary Training Rules, but it profiles Penn State's women's basketball coach Rene Portland. She had coached for 23 years with these rules:

no drugs

no drinking and no lesbians

Action wasn't taken against her until 2006. 2006!!!! I know sometimes I like to think that I don't live in a world where sexuality matters...but it does. And I couln't agree more with the above statement "Society has an obligation to pro-actively ensure that everyone is welcome and valued in a community - passive acceptance is not enough."

I guess I also have to re-think my own passive acceptance and realize that being more pro-active will make the world a better place for the next generations. 

And when does it become the individual's obligation to accept society?

I'm sitting on the other side of the fence, and it does not make sense to me. And if you can help me out please do.

All I can draw from is my own experiencees... which begins as a white male hetero. There was a time I hung out in punk bars. The alternative crowd. It was interesting, because the "norm" was being different. That the "different clique" cliqued up just the same as the normies, they just wore more eye liner. I see it today... you have the outcasts... that do everything in their power to stand apart from, to stand out... and by that they gain acceptance from their clique.

Not related to cliques... a common theme to my life was that I was always on the outside looking in. I didn't look right, feel right, dress right, talk right, have the right girl, car, or income. Now that I have that all figured out, the door was never locked. I could have come in any time I wanted... infact I was never outside. It was me that put up the differences to be apart from.

So now here I am, and I don't get it. Before it seemed people loved being different, and didn't give a crap what you thought about it. But today... in general... seems people want to be an "individual" yet demand acceptance for it. Like, I can pierce my face 100 times and have horns implanted in my forehead, but then demand you treat me like I'm normal.... I'm sorry, a gut with a 100 things sticking out of his face is not "normal". Now he does not deserve disrespect... huge distinction... but he isn't "normal".

Which brings us to this subject. How do you walk the line of finding acceptance... yet as the OP says.... I wish for the day it isn't an issue? When making it an issue is counter to it not being an issue? I'm seriously asking. I honestly want to know.



2012-08-26 9:55 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
TriAya - 2012-08-26 11:45 AM

I actually just mentioned Greg Louganis with no explanation whatsoever -- whatever anyone extrapolates from that is their own perception, nothing more.

In my mind, however, he's the only really well-known gay U.S. pro athlete. Ever. I could be very, very wrong, but please provide more examples.

I guess I'm old too, although I spent a lot of time with teenagers until 2009. And that was in Los Angeles area, so insofar as the subject came up, yes, young people in general were very tolerant, even high school athletes. But I have no way of generalizing that to the entire country.

There are quite a few gay Olympic champions, but as to the OP's question, I'm assuming he's from the U.S. and talking about popular pro sports there. I'm also assuming he's a he because he looks like one in his avatar.

Yea I am from the US, New York specifically, and a couple more famous gay athletes there has been here is Billie Jean King and Johnny Weir. Here you will find places that are very friendly and nice to those of us in the lgbt community and then you'll find places who are extremely intolerant but most people simply wouldn't care. I think in the future once my generation starts dominating the sports worl we may start to see more people open because honestly it shouldn't matter!

Also looked up Greg Louganis and he looks surprisingly like Crowie lol

2012-08-26 9:57 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
powerman - 2012-08-26 9:45 PM

And when does it become the individual's obligation to accept society?

I'm sitting on the other side of the fence, and it does not make sense to me. And if you can help me out please do.

All I can draw from is my own experiencees... which begins as a white male hetero. There was a time I hung out in punk bars. The alternative crowd. It was interesting, because the "norm" was being different. That the "different clique" cliqued up just the same as the normies, they just wore more eye liner. I see it today... you have the outcasts... that do everything in their power to stand apart from, to stand out... and by that they gain acceptance from their clique.

Not related to cliques... a common theme to my life was that I was always on the outside looking in. I didn't look right, feel right, dress right, talk right, have the right girl, car, or income. Now that I have that all figured out, the door was never locked. I could have come in any time I wanted... infact I was never outside. It was me that put up the differences to be apart from.

So now here I am, and I don't get it. Before it seemed people loved being different, and didn't give a crap what you thought about it. But today... in general... seems people want to be an "individual" yet demand acceptance for it. Like, I can pierce my face 100 times and have horns implanted in my forehead, but then demand you treat me like I'm normal.... I'm sorry, a gut with a 100 things sticking out of his face is not "normal". Now he does not deserve disrespect... huge distinction... but he isn't "normal".

Which brings us to this subject. How do you walk the line of finding acceptance... yet as the OP says.... I wish for the day it isn't an issue? When making it an issue is counter to it not being an issue? I'm seriously asking. I honestly want to know.

Just to be clear, you're comparing to CHOOSING to pierce your face 100 times and implant horns to being born homosexual (not by choice), and then wondering about the expectations of being treated like everyone else.  Maybe we should treat black people differently, or maybe we should treat those born with cleft pallets differently.  I understand the comparison you're trying to make, but homosexuality isn't "trying to be different".  Frankly it isn't even "different" in the larger scheme of things.

2012-08-26 10:13 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
jgaither - 2012-08-26 8:57 PM

Just to be clear, you're comparing to CHOOSING to pierce your face 100 times and implant horns to being born homosexual (not by choice), and then wondering about the expectations of being treated like everyone else.  Maybe we should treat black people differently, or maybe we should treat those born with cleft pallets differently.  I understand the comparison you're trying to make, but homosexuality isn't "trying to be different".  Frankly it isn't even "different" in the larger scheme of things.

True... but I am talking about a mind set. And for the record, I am not at all talking about a "choice" in any way shape or form.

It isn't different, say if I had diabetes... in great shape, ate well, diabetic... that went everywhere expecting others to accept and cater to that... no donuts at the office, ask the waiter why they don't have an adequate menu... That I went out of my way to let everyone know and accept me based on that condition unique to me... no... don't read into that... I'm not saying LGBT is a "condition"...

In general life there are those that are naturally confrontational, and those that are not. They just go about their business. I do have several friends that are LGBT, and it is not an issue. Heck, in day to day life I don't even think about it. They just go about their business, which happens to be getting married soon. It isn't a big deal, and they don't make it one.

2012-08-26 11:26 PM
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Subject: RE: lgb athletes
powerman - 2012-08-26 11:13 PM
jgaither - 2012-08-26 8:57 PM

Just to be clear, you're comparing to CHOOSING to pierce your face 100 times and implant horns to being born homosexual (not by choice), and then wondering about the expectations of being treated like everyone else.  Maybe we should treat black people differently, or maybe we should treat those born with cleft pallets differently.  I understand the comparison you're trying to make, but homosexuality isn't "trying to be different".  Frankly it isn't even "different" in the larger scheme of things.

True... but I am talking about a mind set. And for the record, I am not at all talking about a "choice" in any way shape or form.

It isn't different, say if I had diabetes... in great shape, ate well, diabetic... that went everywhere expecting others to accept and cater to that... no donuts at the office, ask the waiter why they don't have an adequate menu... That I went out of my way to let everyone know and accept me based on that condition unique to me... no... don't read into that... I'm not saying LGBT is a "condition"...

In general life there are those that are naturally confrontational, and those that are not. They just go about their business. I do have several friends that are LGBT, and it is not an issue. Heck, in day to day life I don't even think about it. They just go about their business, which happens to be getting married soon. It isn't a big deal, and they don't make it one.

Gay couples expect to be treated just like straight couple, we demand to have the same basic economic and social rights that're granted to the majority. Having likable people in the public eye like Ellen Degeneres shows our human side, that we're the same as everyone else really. There people across this country who are bullied and put down simply because they have gay attractions, its wrong and we need to educate people.

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