Improving my strength program...

2008-10-08 2:53 PM

Master

2033

Subject: Improving my strength program...

I have been weight training for about 3 weeks right now as part of the 20 week winter maintenance program, and the weight training is REALLY kicking my but (in a good way!) and definitely negatively impacting the quality of my workouts in the other three sports (I am sore for a day or so and a bit slower), but I think at this time of year it is the most important thing I could be doing. I have been reading the training bible and strength / power is my MAJOR limiting factor. I am thinking about going to a 3x per week weight routine for the next 12 weeks or so. I can already feel a difference after 3 weeks of this... I am also thinking a little more lean body mass would help me burn more calories and lean out a bit quicker.

I know there are people on both sides of the fence on this issue, but I think for my body I will benefit from weight training, It takes a LOT of power to drag my big @$$ up a hill with any kind of speed! I am also thinking of adding in 20 minutes of rowing on my weight training days. I used to row after weights as a cool down and to "loosen up" I have always felt it did really good things for my overall body strength and endurance. I am also thinking it would be really good for improving my core strength.

I was doing the weight plan exactly as written, but have since added in lat pulldowns, and flat bench press.

I am not very comfortable with the olympic lifts (other than squatting) but am curious to see what kind of routines other people are doing. I am really interested in crossfit, but I think I need to improve general fitness a bit more first, and again the olympic lift thing...

Really what I am looking for is to increase strength and lose weight. I have a lot of time to get fast and endurance has never been a issue for me. Whats killing me is lack of strength and power on the bike.

Ideas? Suggestions?

Thanks!

PS- Wow! I really rambled... I home you can make sense of this!

2008-10-08 3:16 PM

in reply to: #1728020

Member

279

DC Metro

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

Hey I wrote it on your blog but I've been doing "New Rules of Lifting for Women" and I think its awesome. The first book is more geared towards men (although women can do it too), it is "New Rules of Lifting".

The women's program is 6 months long and I am sure the original book is somewhat similar. Purpose of book is to gain strength, lose fat. I think its exactly what you are looking for. I haven't read the first book though.

I am also very intrigued by Crossfit and I was thinking of joining a crossfit gym, maybe next year.

2008-10-08 3:17 PM

in reply to: #1728020

Subject: ...

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2008-10-08 3:20 PM

in reply to: #1728020

Elite

2608

Denver, Colorado

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

I recommend the program from "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe. Here's the program, posted in another thread courtesy of Grandy (thanks Grandy).

____________________________________________________________
The quick and dirty recommendation from the book is to do as follows:

workout A:
3x5 squat
3x5 overhead press
1x5 deadlift

workout B:
3x5 squat
3x5 bench press
3x5 power clean
____________________________________________________________

You do this three days a week and simply alternate workouts. So, your first week might be workout A, workout B, workout A, and your second week would be workout B, workout A,
workout B.

I would also recommend adding pull-ups/lat pull downs on one of the workouts, or both if you can manage. A strong back, lats included, is very important.

I also recommend getting the book; for around $20, it has very detailed explanations for all of the lifts used in the porgram, including the power clean. It's tough to learn the power clean from a book, but this one does a good job. And don't overthink the power clean. It's actually simpler than it's made out to be, at least for those who don't want to compete in Olympic lifting. It's basically a jump while holding the bar. As you jump up, pull hard with your arms - not before the jump, but simultaneously. That'll give you a rough but workable power clean.

2008-10-08 3:44 PM

in reply to: #1728020

Elite

2608

Denver, Colorado

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

As for the Crossfit thing: I agree with you that you should develop some basic strength before doing CF. You'll get more out of it. And most importantly, get comfortable with the power clean. I've read some of the comments under the WODs that involved a power clean where people wrote "oh I'm not comfortable with the power clean so I just used the bar for this one." Now, if you're trying to learn the power clean, then just using the bar is an excellent and entirely appropriate way to learn the lift. But if you think that you're "working out" using just the bar, you're fooling yourself. Learn the lifts. Get a base of strength. Then transition into CF workouts. You'll get more out of them. Your plan could be something like this:

Starting Strength: 6-8 weeks. Do the program as written. Adding rowing, running, or whatever is fine but don't overdo it.

Transition to CF: Starting replacing some of the Starting Strength days with a CF workout. Your call as to how long you want to do this.

CF: Do CF workouts for a few weeks.

Transition to tri training/tri training: Get back into tri training. What you do for weights is up to you. CF is a good choice, but so is one day a week of the Starting Strength program. Do what you can, but at this point tri training will be your priority.

Repeat for the next 20 or so years.

2008-10-08 3:54 PM

in reply to: #1728020

Master

2033

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

That sounds like excelent advice... I think I will talk to someone at the gym and see if I can get them to teach me a few more of the lifts. Then transition to crossfit. When you are in season how often do you do crossfit workouts?

I have really enjoyed lifting and want to keep doing it but come spring I am not going to want to have a bad run or bike because my legs are sore from lifting too much.

Maybe thats the time to cut back to a program similar to what I am doing now?

2008-10-08 4:03 PM

in reply to: #1728020

Member

279

DC Metro

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

Wow the power clean does look scary. I could imagine knocking myself out trying to attempt a power clean. I'm going to have to try it 'with just the bar' to see if I can do even that.

That starting strength book also looks pretty awesome. Minimalistic. I like it.

Edited by linanil 2008-10-08 4:04 PM

2008-10-08 4:20 PM

in reply to: #1728277

Subject: ...

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2008-10-08 4:57 PM

in reply to: #1728020

Elite

2608

Denver, Colorado

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

I'm trying for the Disney marathon in January so I'm still "in season." What I like to do falls under the title of "metabolic conditioning" which is just a fancy way of saying "interval training with weights." I lump CF into the category of "metabolic conditioning." At this point, CFers will say that CF is more than just "metabolic conditioning" and I agree. But I generally pick and choose from the WODs that mix running with weight training or do circuit type stuff. I also really like to do barbell complexes. Barbell complexes are great for a crowded gym where circuit training is not practical because someone might take your station in the middle of a circuit. One bar, same weight, and lots of guts.

My favorite is this:

Bent over row;
Power clean;
Front squat into a press (aka "thruster");
Back squat;
Good morning.

Do 6 reps for each exercise (you can decrease or increase the reps as you wish to get different conditioning effects) and go through all exercises back to back without rest. At the end, rest 90 seconds, then go again. Strive for 5 total sets.

Why not just do intervals using SBR? Variety. And while these won't make you killer strong, you can use these to help maintain strength by, for example, using a heavy weight and just doing 1 -3 reps for each exercise.

2008-10-08 6:01 PM

in reply to: #1728020

Master

2033

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

Mike, you gave some GREAT advice. I'm going to pick up a copy of starting strength ASAP. For those of you intrested here is the amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-2nd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0976805421/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1223505534&sr=8-1 All 5 star ratings!

Thanks for sharing!

comet the dog

2008-10-08 9:45 PM

in reply to: #1728139

Master

1809

hiding in your closet

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

MikeTheBear - 2008-10-08 3:20 PM

I recommend the program from "Starting Strength" by Mark Rippetoe. Here's the program, posted in another thread courtesy of Grandy (thanks Grandy).

____________________________________________________________
The quick and dirty recommendation from the book is to do as follows:

workout A:
3x5 squat
3x5 overhead press
1x5 deadlift

workout B:
3x5 squat
3x5 bench press
3x5 power clean
____________________________________________________________

You do this three days a week and simply alternate workouts. So, your first week might be workout A, workout B, workout A, and your second week would be workout B, workout A,
workout B.

I would also recommend adding pull-ups/lat pull downs on one of the workouts, or both if you can manage. A strong back, lats included, is very important.

I also recommend getting the book; for around $20, it has very detailed explanations for all of the lifts used in the porgram, including the power clean. It's tough to learn the power clean from a book, but this one does a good job. And don't overthink the power clean. It's actually simpler than it's made out to be, at least for those who don't want to compete in Olympic lifting. It's basically a jump while holding the bar. As you jump up, pull hard with your arms - not before the jump, but simultaneously. That'll give you a rough but workable power clean.

can this be done effectively with dumbells. i am beginning to do some strength training but in my garage, and hate the thought of getting myself in a position that i couldnt get out of without hurting myself.
or do you have other recommendations?

edit to add: i didnt mean to hijack your thread pigpen. please forgive me

Edited by comet the dog 2008-10-08 9:48 PM

2008-10-08 11:58 PM

in reply to: #1728020

Master

2033

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

No problem really... I am a BIG fan of dumbells myself and am intrested to see the answers.

2008-10-09 1:51 AM

in reply to: #1728020

Elite

2608

Denver, Colorado

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

Comet da Dog,

First, let me give you a theoretical answer. In theory, i.e., ideal world, you should not be going to failure on any of the lifts. In practice, however, I sympathize. Even trying to avoid failure you can get there by accident. One of the reasons, but certainly not the only reason, why I don't bench press much is I don't want to get stuck. So, here's what to do.

Focus on deadlifts rather than squats, and do 3x5 deadlifts.
Focus on the overhead press and drop the bench press altogether. If you have access to a dip stand, do dips.
You can still do cleans with dumbbells, and some people even find DB cleans easier. Perfectly fine. Where not training you to lift in the Olympics, just for strength.
Do single-leg work with the dumbbells: lunges, walking lunges (excellent exercise), step ups if you have a fairly high step (another great exercise).

Your workouts A and B might look like this:

Workout A

Deadlift 3x5
Overhead press 3x5
Single leg exercise 3x5

Workout B

DB cleans 3x5
Overhead press 3x5 or dips if you have the equipment
Single leg exercise 3x5

A nice option on this day is to combine the cleans and presses into a clean and press or push press combo. However, if you want a break from overhead pressing and can't do dips, just do push ups, as many as you can for each of the 3 sets.

I don't know how heavy your dumbbells go, but you can easily outgrow them with this routine. I've picked up a 300 lbs. Olympic set for under $100. You can probably find room in your garage for one and it's well worth the investment. If you need to wait to get one, or don't want to get one, then go as heavy as your dumbbells will allow, then when you max out the weight, start adding reps. Rippetoe recommends adding around 2.5% to the bar each week. This is important. If you want to see results, you need some type of progression whether it be adding weight, adding reps, adding sets, or some combination. The Starting Strength plan just focuses on adding weight, which is fine since the goal of the program is to build pure strength.

2008-10-09 11:52 AM

in reply to: #1728020

Member

279

DC Metro

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

For me, I've decided to stop buying dumbbells. I have an adjustable one that I could take up to 30 lbs or so. My dumbbells only go up to 20 lbs and I was thinking it'd be nice to get a set of 25 lbs. I know dumbbells can go way up there, like 90-100 lbs but I don't see myself ever doing that

So I have a 25 lb kettlebell and I want a set of 25 lb dumbbells, I decided I need to buy a 25lb kettlebell instead. I also have 35 and 45 lb kettlebells and may buy a second one of those too when the time is right. I just have to figure out how to buy a 25lb kettlebell without my husband noticing I spent more money on exercise related stuff

I also bought my Olympic barbell set from 's for around 150. Even though I didn't need a barbell (I have a Prospot with a built in Olympic bar), it was cheaper to buy the set with the barbell and the weights than to buy the weights by themselves.

comet the dog

2008-10-11 1:23 AM

in reply to: #1729577

Master

1809

hiding in your closet

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

MikeTheBear - 2008-10-09 1:51 AM

Comet da Dog,

First, let me give you a theoretical answer. In theory, i.e., ideal world, you should not be going to failure on any of the lifts. In practice, however, I sympathize. Even trying to avoid failure you can get there by accident. One of the reasons, but certainly not the only reason, why I don't bench press much is I don't want to get stuck. So, here's what to do.

Focus on deadlifts rather than squats, and do 3x5 deadlifts.
Focus on the overhead press and drop the bench press altogether. If you have access to a dip stand, do dips.
You can still do cleans with dumbbells, and some people even find DB cleans easier. Perfectly fine. Where not training you to lift in the Olympics, just for strength.
Do single-leg work with the dumbbells: lunges, walking lunges (excellent exercise), step ups if you have a fairly high step (another great exercise).

Your workouts A and B might look like this:

Workout A

Deadlift 3x5
Overhead press 3x5
Single leg exercise 3x5

Workout B

DB cleans 3x5
Overhead press 3x5 or dips if you have the equipment
Single leg exercise 3x5

A nice option on this day is to combine the cleans and presses into a clean and press or push press combo. However, if you want a break from overhead pressing and can't do dips, just do push ups, as many as you can for each of the 3 sets.

I don't know how heavy your dumbbells go, but you can easily outgrow them with this routine. I've picked up a 300 lbs. Olympic set for under $100. You can probably find room in your garage for one and it's well worth the investment. If you need to wait to get one, or don't want to get one, then go as heavy as your dumbbells will allow, then when you max out the weight, start adding reps. Rippetoe recommends adding around 2.5% to the bar each week. This is important. If you want to see results, you need some type of progression whether it be adding weight, adding reps, adding sets, or some combination. The Starting Strength plan just focuses on adding weight, which is fine since the goal of the program is to build pure strength.

thanks mike DA bear, but do you recommend doing these in sets or can i do this in a circuit routine. which would give better results?

Edited by comet the dog 2008-10-11 1:28 AM

2008-10-11 2:20 PM

in reply to: #1728020

Elite

2608

Denver, Colorado

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

For pure strength, doing these in sets with 2-3 minutes of rest in between is better. For conditioning, circuits.

comet the dog

2008-10-11 7:57 PM

in reply to: #1728020

Master

1809

hiding in your closet

Subject: RE: Improving my strength program...

o'kee do'kee. thanks