heart rate on the bike

I usually shoot for 75-90 percent of my max. I try to spin from 85 to 90 rpms.

Still Tri'n
Michael

I am new to the HRM training (1week in) but if you look at Scott Herricks article on HRM is will give you some good insight. For instance many have different maximum's for different events. The cycling and running might be close but you need to find what they are. For me, I am working on getting used to the monitor and using the pre-established zones in my monitor until I get used to the process in practice. Then I plan on finding my true max and will work from there. There are others on this site who have been using HRM's much more than me but the article I use/d is:
http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/Scott%20Herrick/scott.htm
Good luck.

You will need to find your personal target heart rates. For me, cycling HR is 20-30 bpm lower than running for same exertion level. It is hard for me to get my heart rate above 150 on the bike, but can do it easily running.

I have read where each person should find their max heart rate through a stress test, and I have read where people in their first year of trianing should avoid the stress test. I am new to triathlon training, so I don't know where to stand on this.

I know, in strength training, that opinions differ also. Some feel newbies should max out to find their max weight to gauge progress, and others feel that maxing out for a newbie is about the dumbest thing you can do since they don't have the discipline to maintain correct form when the going gets really tough (i.e. higher risk of injury ... unnecessarily)

My thought/question is .... Is the difference between a predicted Max HR (for determining training zones) going to be significantly different from the actual max HR (for determining training zones) to risk it by undergoing a max stress test? In other words, are the HR ranges for the different zones really going to be significantly different that training would be "messed up", by just predicting (or calculating) your HR based upon equations derived from many samples?

Another question .... how do the stress tests affect training? Do they "set you back a couple steps" or do they add to your training? I ask b/c I am tempted to do a stress test, but training has been going so well, that I don't want to "screw it up" by trying something I am "not ready for" or "don't really need to do".

Any thoughts?

Maybe one of the coaches could chime in on this and give you some great advice!

Still Tri'n
Michael

The type of person you described is me ... the person that would, by nature, and out of competitive spirit, do a "time trial" each and every time they worked out (each event 2-3 times per week). HR training for me, keeps me "focused on long-term progression" rather than trying to set a "personal best" each and every time out. I would literally train myself into the ground if I left it up to my "personal desire".

I'm getting to the point, even after HR training for just a month, where I can tell by breathing and percieved exertion, if I am "training in the correct zone".

I have a million questions as to "how other people train", whether they use training zones, percieved exertion, or "train by feel", etc. I am going at this "alone", as one might tell by my signature line. I am my own triathlon club, and it motivates me. So, my only interaction with other triathletes is on the internet. So, I will likely from time to time ask questions about "how are you training?" and "what are your short-term goals?", if for no other reason than to endulge in "training talk" with like minded people (we are rare). I'll keep the questions infrequent as to not overload or dominate the board.

I have wondered if "slow training" (zone 2, sometimes zone 3) really equates to "faster times". Training at a conversational pace (as they say) sometimes seems like it "can't be doing much good", but I have faith that it does. I come from an athletic background (as I've mentioned before) which taught me "If you want to be good at something, you need to train it specifically". In other words, if you want to "run faster" then you need to "run fast(er)" in training. But, with this triathlon stuff, and the high frequency of training (almost every day of the week), I can easily see where "training hard" all the time would be counterproductive (mainly in terms of joint damage and mental burnout). Tendons, etc and immune system, nervous sytem, ect seem to take longer to recover than does the muscular system.

I guess this would be the point where "key workouts" or "time trials" periodically would be a good gauge.

I'll stop there, I could talk training (any type of training) all day long. I guess that's the exercise physiology geek portion of my personality that comes through.

I have had a stress test about a year ago. Long story short, my family has a history of high blood pressure, I wanted to see where I stood and get a baseline at 35 (my age). I had the whole workup actually from wearing a heart monitor for 24 hrs to the treadmill stress test. I don't think the stress test is that big of deal if you are in pretty good shape. I say this becaues at the time I wasn't running or doing anything much other than playing basketball once or twice a week. I had to run for about 20 minutes although I don't know how long it was and they sped me up and increased the incline to about 8 degrees. The hard part is all the crap hooked up to you with this thing in your mouth trying to breath and maintain a running rhythm. The doctor asked how much I work out because they had a hard time getting me to my max heart rate (per a formula? I don't know) and then had the incline increased to find my max. I didn't pay any attention to it what's so ever because I didn't realize I would ever need to know. He couldn't believe that I didn't work out. BP 118/75 Pulse 59 before the stress test. Well this kind of led me to start thinking of working out/running ect. My thinking was if he thinks I am in good shape and I don't feel like I am, why don't I get into really really good shape. The one goal I had going to the doctor was that I wanted to be healthy. After I got all the results and we talked I asked him one last question. "Doc, so am I healthy enough to start doing triathlons?" He looked at me and asked if I was going to really do one and I said sure, he said see ya in 5 years. This was one year ago and I didn't know anything or really know if there were any around here and didn't really know if I was going to do one. But I did hear Lance Armstrong say once that the best athletes in the world are Triathletes so that was the basis for my question to the doc. One more of the many reasons I found Tri.

Not to bore you all with my past but to answer your question. I would go ahead and get one done. You sound like you are in pretty good shapeand if you can run on a treadmill for 20-30 minutes with increases in speed every minute or two you should have too much problem. It is a short moderately intense workout and if you can use your family doctor or have him give you a referral to a trainer of some kind that would be ideal. Either way, insurance picked up the bill. I just wish I would of got the numbers for my max. I am sure I could call over there but getting what I want my be tricky by talking to the receptionist. Who knows.

Triple Threat, from what I have researched, you need to train in different modes, but most of it should be at a conversational pace. Not too easy though :-) Then after you build a base, start adding speed work to get faster. When I first started running, I would try to beat my last time every run and was soon dreading my next run. Since I have switched to training mostly moderate with some tempo runs thrown in, I have found that I look forward to both. In Jan I will start interval speed training to get faster on the run while bilding base for bike and swim and eventually incorporate speed work for the other elements as my fitness increases.

Also, here is a link for a self Max HR test:

http://www.training2run.com/html/mhr_test.html

Of course, might want to check with doctor first.

My Polar HRM has a fitness test that gives you your V02Max, Max HR and fitness index. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but you basically lie down and relax for 3-5mins to get the reading.

Edited by cameronw 2003-12-05 8:02 AM

Cam,
Do you still use your HRM when doing speedwork and tempo runs? What are your percentage ranges when doing these? I am still trying to learn how to use this thing. Mine has a fitness test, I haven't done it yet but I don't have the VO2 max. Mine is a Polar M52.

Rio, so far I have only done tempo runs and I am usually around 75-85% MHR. When I start intervals, I will shoot for 80-90%. I will mostly be concerned with time (finish lap in specified time) but check heart rate graph afterwards to see if need to speed up or slow down speed.

The problem I am having is going slow. It actually seems to feel to slow. By that I mean I feel comfortable running a 10 min mile for 4-5 miles being pretty consistant and not overworking. However with my HRM set (pre-programmed) to High which would be between 70-80% of max, I need to run in the 12:30 range and that is keeping it pegged near 80%. This to me is barely above walking. So for me to do a tempo run or even to run a 10 min pace would put me in the 90%+ range. I don't think that is quite right. I am either in worse shape than I feel or I am used to what is considered overtraining.
I have also read where sleep can affect HR so maybe that is a factor, I don't sleep more than 6 hrs a night. I am hoping eventually my HR will lower to where I can start running faster. It makes sense to not overtrain because of burn out (been there) and injuries (been there too) but I think it is almost as frustrating/discouraging trying to increase speed while maintaining a lower HR. I am not even talking increase speed to a race pace or anything just to where I feel like I am working.

The problem I am having is going slow. It actually seems to feel to slow. By that I mean I feel comfortable running a 10 min mile for 4-5 miles being pretty consistant and not overworking. However with my HRM set (pre-programmed) to High which would be between 70-80% of max, I need to run in the 12:30 range and that is keeping it pegged near 80%. This to me is barely above walking. So for me to do a tempo run or even to run a 10 min pace would put me in the 90%+ range. I don't think that is quite right. I am either in worse shape than I feel or I am used to what is considered overtraining.
I have also read where sleep can affect HR so maybe that is a factor, I don't sleep more than 6 hrs a night. I am hoping eventually my HR will lower to where I can start running faster. It makes sense to not overtrain because of burn out (been there) and injuries (been there too) but I think it is almost as frustrating/discouraging trying to increase speed while maintaining a lower HR. I am not even talking increase speed to a race pace or anything just to where I feel like I am working.

"Then after you build a base, start adding speed work to get faster. "

Building a base is my sole goal. I know from other endeavors that the bane of long-term progression is impatience. It's the same in skill sports, weight-lifting, etc.

Build a bigger base to have a bigger peak (that's an old maxim that still rings true). Essentially, I am just building up base endurance, so that in another year from now, I will be "ready for some real training".

Too often people incorporate advanced concepts when they are at a stage of training where they cannot capitalize on the advanced methods.

After saying all that, sometimes I feel we get too "geeky" about it and forget that occassionally it's good just to go out there and "swim, bike, and run". One can get "too scientific" about their training.

If there are times where I feel I have electricity running through my veins and feel as if I am a caged tiger, then I will train accordingly. I'm not going to waste that feeling on a zone-2 run, when everythig inside of me says "Zone 4 dammit, Zone 4!" Granted those times are rare.

In terms of the "slow training days" ... I think one needs to realize that the goal of training is to "improve without getting hurt". The slower days are light-impact practice (or that's how I think of them). The tempo work is the evaluation, and the overdistance is the endurance builders. Too mnay hard workouts increases the risk of injury too dangerous levels (this is a physically demanding event). You don't want to train for 6 months to have it all flushed down the crapper because you're injured for 8 weeks.

We are a "too much, too soon" society and it takes some discipline to harness your drive and effort. (If you knew me, you'd die laughing knowing that sentence is coming from ME of all people)

I know what you mean Rio. I have the same exact problem. I look at it as slowly building cardio. My legs are far in advance of my actual cardion During my half marathon, my legs were still strong at end and I never hit lactate threshold, but my last two miles I kept running out of breath. On my tempo runs, I basically went with how I felt and speed. Basically a shorter distnace running at race speed (or faster). For me, adding the walk breaks to runs helped keep my HR down while allowing me to run faster.

Back to diff between HR running and bike, I can easily get my HR up to 170 (186 max) on a run, but seldom got above 160 do high intensity interval training (HIIT) even on my max possible effort interval.

Good points TripleThreat. Galloway's book talks about one year of base training for running before any speed or hill training. I have the same problem holding myself back. When I played competitive racquetball, I would spend hours practicing the basic shots all the while wanting to play practice games and hitting the more glamorous shots. But once I built basics into my practices, I got much better quickly due to consistency and confidence.

We didn't get out of shape quickly, so we can't get in shape quickly :-)

I hear ya and I think we are a lot alike in many areas. I even incorporated a walk in my 4 mile race last week. I was going to walk a minute and after 45 seconds I was like....this is a race you need to run...so run. I think it helped overall but the disipline it takes is killer. I like to see improvement in times/distance ect...that is how I have always trained. Run faster, play harder, WIN! I am learning though. It will be an interesting journey through the base building months of winter and at the end I will see the results.

I know the walking seems whimpy, but if you plan a set interval and do it from the beginning, it is much easier (such as 1min each mile). Keep with the base and you will have less injuries and the speed will come :-)