Dear Daughter...

I 'm a big believer in conservative values for teens.  

Personally, I will prolly discourage my son from serious dating when he's a teenager. It isolates and can cause a lot of unnecessary emotional turmoil. 

If I find out he's banging a girl, I'll prolly kill him before her dad does. 

I think it's an article using the "letter" form to communicate an idea, an idea which I like. If it was really a letter posted on FB that would be at least seven different kinds of fached up.

Two lines jumped out at me from this article:

Now, you’re going to get bruised by life, and sometimes bruised consensually.

Now get out there and find all the things you love, and vice versa.

You want to click the link now, don't you? Don't you?  Yeah, that's what I thought.

I've already stated on this board that I have a very liberal attitude about sex. I hate the studs v sluts attitude still perpetuated by so many, and I absolutely want my daughters, when they're ready (and for every kid/adult that age is different), to enjoy sex.  Women often are put in a passive role in that scenario.  I like hearing and reading things that empower them in terms of consensual sex.  Right on.

Hmmm.  I missed the 13 part.  Agree.

Also agree that the dude is writing for hits. No doubt.

However, I would still happily discuss this concept with my 13 year old, I would just use much different language to do so.

Yep. 

Would I talk about sexual preference stuff like "consensual [bruising]" per the article, hellz to the no.

Would I talk about consensual sex and how it should feel good for both people, and what and how that might feel with my 13 yo? Sure. 

Have I had to address it already at 8 and 6? Yeah.

We have a farm.  The kids have seen lots of animal sex.  Just happens.  Now, let me tell you, if a kid--regardless of age--sees hogs mating, you are going to have questions to answer.  For real. 

Corkscrew shaped penis--oh, yes, it is.  You know the sound a bunny makes when it dies?  Imagine a female hog making the equivalent sound. 

"Mommy, humans mate too, right?"

"Yes.  That's how babies are made"

"Does it hurt like that?"

"No, no it doesn't hurt like that."

"Does it hurt?"

Etc...

There are different, child-appropriate ways to discuss subjects like women getting pleasure from sex and why that's important.  I let the kids drive those conversations though.  I'll always discuss it, but I don't initiate it.  So far, I have been surprised by how early these questions have come. 

That's it.....we're selling the farm!!

LOL!

Actually, I kind of think it's a very effective deterrent.  The girls think it looks like a lot of unpleasant work, even though I tell them it isn't really like that for humans.  One of the pros to having nature geeks for kids.  Hogs. Horses. Chickens. Big Cats. Farm cats. Whatever. They think it looks silly.

Have you ever seen turkeys mate?  God, I always feel so sorry for the hens.  The males are completely incompetent.  Really, I sometimes get embarrassed for the toms.  No, dude, that's her head.  No, really, it's still her head.

Goosedog......ARE YOU HAPPY NOW??????

this wekend's

I can't wait until my kids ask why there is no turkey this year at Thanksgiving.

That's why there should be more turkey at Thanksgiving. (Personally, I like to do a turkey and a standing rib roast, but, eh..whatevs.)

Survival of the fittest, man.

Thanks, GD.  I smelled horrible:)

I was curious what side of this you'd fall on.  

I am a proponent of no sex outside of marriage and we have always instilled those values in our kids.  However, I'm not authoritarian in my belief that I think everybody has to do what I do.

Taking the religious angle out of the discussion I feel kids having sex causes a lot more harm than it does good.  There's the obvious STD's and pregnancy stuff, but also it can really jack up a young persons mind.  From personal experience I was active in my early teen years, and that became all I thought about.  I was your typical creeper who thought of every girl I saw as a piece of meat because all I wanted was to use them for sex.  That was not a good thing and it contributed to a lot of struggles I continued to deal with an adult.

I've read several books on this issue, most of them secular, and they describe the effect of courtship disorder or courtship distortion.  Basically you have the standard courtship process of meeting somebody, getting to know them, hanging out, meeting the family, hanging out with them, falling in love, and ultimately becoming intimate.  When you start having casual sex, you basically skip over several steps of this courtship process by jumping right to the intimate part, often without even getting to know somebody that well.  This is the same for adults and kids, but it has a lot more potential to cause psychological problems with teenagers that can have a lasting effect.

I know I have a unique perspective on this because I work with guys who had a lot of sexual exposure as teenagers.  These exposures are often a contributing factor to their deviant behavior as adults.

Tony, you didn't know where I'd fall on this?  I feel like I'm so predictable :)

So, it sounds like you and I are at pretty much opposite ends of the spectrum on this one.  I would be very interested in reading some of the books you mentioned (I have never even heard of the term courtship disorder/distortion).

I think sex is just sex.  I think it certainly can be more, but it doesn't have to be. I think the stuff that can really end up hurting someone's (especially women's) pyshce is having social value and judgement attached to sex.  STDs and pregnancy are issues, but not insurmountable ones.  Gotta be smart there.

I would even go so far as to say that if my children get married (I think marriage is an unnatural state, too, but, that's a different thread altogether), I hope they do have sex with other people so that they know what they like, want, etc in a partner.  If it's good, it's a non issue; if it's not good, it can be a deal breaker. 

Some people are just wired differently in that department. To me it's as important as sharing similar politics, beliefs etc. 

For a long time women were taught to just sort of take whatever they get in that department, and that idea makes my blood boil.  I applaud things that work to deconstruct that idea :)

Meh, I'm with Switch.  I don't have a daughter, but I've had conversations with my son about relationships and sex since I don't even know when.  I've always had trouble getting my head around why sex is so different than every other biological function when is comes to discussion - i.e. why can most people have conversations about other aspects about how our bodies work, but the subject of intercourse makes them all sorts of uncomfortable?  As much as our culture tends to make it into some sort of big issue, at the end of the day, it's still just a biological function.  No more, and no less.

BTW, my son is 18, and leaving for college on Tuesday.  He's been dating the same girl for nearly two years.  She's a year older than him, and going to college locally.  They've been best friends for about 6 years.  They decided mutually about a week and a half ago that they would "break up" since he's going to be a four hour drive away at school.  A week after breaking up, he still took her to a concert this past Saturday night for her birthday.   We (myself, his step mother, his mother, his step father, and his girlfriend's parents) were all kind of curious about how things would shake out because of their physical separation.  I'm proud that at only 18 and 19 years old they appear to be handling things maturely.  My point is that n=1, but in our case, demystifying sex and relationships rather than forbidding it didn't cause them to be an emotional mess as is often claimed will happen if we let the genie out of the bottle.

lol, i had my suspicions but I try not to assume.  

So, if marriage is an unnatural state, do you feel monogamy is more of a societal thing than a natural thing?  Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying.

I also think you under estimate the power of emotion when it comes to sex.  I know for many people sex is just sex, but for most I feel it's a whole lot more.  The desire for sex can drive people to do horrible things and the jealousy that can ensue afterwards can lead to mass destruction as well.

I do have a genuine interest in understanding other mindsets and beliefs on this topic.  The article seemed really shocking to me that somebody could think that way, so I threw it out here to try and understand the a little more.

I will say it was kind of funny on FB.  There was nothing but crickets on her post, not a single response from her 800+ friends.  Nobody wanted to touch that one.