NFL

Master

5557

, California

Subject: RE: NFL

You don't get to wear pink cleats to honor you mother who died of breast cancer and you don't get to demonstrate against Trump and you don't get to promote BLM.

No, the league makes them wear the pink stuff

I'm remembering a Bill Burr stand up comedy routine where he talks about that heh.

My Race Log

Master

5557

, California

Subject: RE: NFL

As far as the league goes, they're in a bind.

Right now yes the players are doing a bit of a demonstration and yes, some fans are getting their panties in a wad. But after all is said and done, those guys ARE going out on the field and the games ARE getting played, which means the fans who spent money for a seat are not being ripped off.

If the league lets them protest the way they are right now, some fans get pissy and boycott. But if the league tries to crack down on it? It could seriously backfire on them if the players went on strike. It has happened before and I'm quite sure the league owners have that in mind.

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Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by spudone

As far as the league goes, they're in a bind.

Right now yes the players are doing a bit of a demonstration and yes, some fans are getting their panties in a wad. But after all is said and done, those guys ARE going out on the field and the games ARE getting played, which means the fans who spent money for a seat are not being ripped off.

If the league lets them protest the way they are right now, some fans get pissy and boycott. But if the league tries to crack down on it? It could seriously backfire on them if the players went on strike. It has happened before and I'm quite sure the league owners have that in mind.

But only about 200 players took a knee. I seriously doubt anyone will strike to get the right to stage protests during the playing of the National Anthem.

I was just reading where VFW and American Legion halls are closing their door to NFL viewings.

If this goes on for much longer, even when they do 'resolve' it and try to win fans back there will be many fans who, having missed 2 or 3 weeks of the season's games, just won't be back.

My Race Log

249

Subject: RE: NFL

Not trying to be an here, but how could you compare Nazis and skin heads to anti-abortion protests? Jeepers dude. Now that I said that, also, what facts do you have to support only 200 took a knee? Entire teams wouldn't even come out of the locker room until the anthem was done out of disrespect. You are way low on that number.

Here is my stand. Trump is not capable of any sort of "Presidentialism." He can't get out of bed without someone off. When he does have a good idea, he will only communicate via twitter. Sad. BUT, what the players are doing is just trendy, and cool to them...no one else. The NFL is scared, no, terrified of this. I did not verify this, but I read in the paper today that on pages 62-63 of the NFL players handbook that it says teams will have players stand for the national anthem, or risk fines and loss of draft picks. If that language exists, they are ignoring it. You are correct, they have to bow to the players because in the end, it is all about money.

There is a Brandon Tatum video out on YouTube which I encourage everyone to listen to. He is an African American police officer. It is awesome. He raises the question of why are they protesting the flag and the anthem if they are protesting inequality and unfair treatment of African Americans. What is the connection? He goes on to say-protest the issues, not the flag that gave you the freedom to do so. When you think about it, he is right. It's like me saying, I don't agree with abortion, so I will refuse to buy tires for my car from Goodyear, as if one has anything to do with the other.

Lastly, he makes strong point that these protests in the NFL are convenient for the players because they get camera time, but have no real stake in change. Why don't the players get out in the communities and do something? Since Kapernick took his first knee, what has changed? Crime rate gone down? Relations between police and blacks improved? Our country is less divided? More kids in school? You get the point. It is all window dressing. In the end, the players act like they "did something", play the game, collect their massive checks, get on the plane and go home. You won't see anyone who took a knee walking the streets of South Chicago anytime soon....I would bet $$ on that.

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Pro

15655

Subject: RE: NFL

Last night I had a few of my guys at a protest of about 200 people at a MLB game. Their best chant was "No justice, No baseball".....while 45,000 people attended the game. Their second best chant, as they marched down the street at 730 pm in front of businesses that closed at 6, and nobody was in, was "No justice, No profits".

I think somebody needs to go back to protesting class to review the chapter on protesting in a way that might get someone to actually pay attention to the cause you're protesting and not just the fact that you're running your mouth or taking a knee. (I'm all about run on sentences this morning.....I hope someone protests)

Edited by Left Brain 2017-09-27 11:01 AM

1502

Katy, Texas

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by Left Brain

protesting in a way that might get someone to actually pay attention to the cause you're protesting a

Dude....this protest has got more people to open a dialog than any other in recent history. Protests aren't necessarily about changing peoples' minds, it's about bringing issues to light. This has done an exceptional job of it.

My Race Log

Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by Burchib

Not trying to be an here, but how could you compare Nazis and skin heads to anti-abortion protests? Jeepers dude.

It was easy. See what I did was just wrote: "If the football stadium is a good venue to protest, what happens when the klan or the skin heads or neo Nazis or the anti-abortion people or the BLM or the pussyhats show up hold a rally before or during a game?"

The operative word is PROTESTS. I don't care if you are protesting global climate change, protesting Donald Trump or Hillary or protesting for the $15/hr minimum wage. Protest is protest and it's not up to me or you to decide what is acceptable protest and what is not acceptable protest. Just because someone labels a group a "hate group" does not mean they lost their constitutional right to assemble and demonstrate and protest. The fact that I find the triple K the most despicable group of cowards in the country does not mean they don't have the right to assemble and demonstrate just a much as the gay pride crowd and the save-the-whales people.

What bothers me in when you take the protest where it doesn't belong. People don't go to a football game to watch you air your grievances about perceived injustice in the world. Yes, there is injustice. The fact that they make 2 million a year and I don't is a f'ing tragedy of justice! You want to protest do it on your own time! You are an employee of the NFL and contracted to play football not promote your own agendas.

I've seen dozens of videos now of fan burning hundreds of dollars worth of sports paraphernalia. These people are done. They won't be back for a long time...if ever. The NFL took a gamble and they crapped out. I'm not sure how they recover now.

The left wants to portray this as 'freedom to demonstrate'....unfortunately most people aren't buying it. Demonstrate all you want but do so without disrespecting the US flag.

My Race Log

Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by 3mar

Originally posted by Left Brain

protesting in a way that might get someone to actually pay attention to the cause you're protesting a

Dude....this protest has got more people to open a dialog than any other in recent history. Protests aren't necessarily about changing peoples' minds, it's about bringing issues to light. This has done an exceptional job of it.

Don't pizs down my back and tell me it's raining. All they did was pizz a bunch of people off unnecessarily. People burn flags to get attention but the attention they get is not the attention they wanted. No one is talking about WHY they are taking a knee....all they are talking about is that they are disrespecting the flag. You can get headline and be on the news if you smash windows and riot but I don't know that riots ever change anything for the better.

"We'll win over their hearts and minds or we'll burning their gd village to the ground!" Is not a good campaign!

My Race Log

1502

Katy, Texas

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by 3mar

Originally posted by Left Brain

protesting in a way that might get someone to actually pay attention to the cause you're protesting a

Dude....this protest has got more people to open a dialog than any other in recent history. Protests aren't necessarily about changing peoples' minds, it's about bringing issues to light. This has done an exceptional job of it.

Don't pizs down my back and tell me it's raining. All they did was pizz a bunch of people off unnecessarily. People burn flags to get attention but the attention they get is not the attention they wanted. No one is talking about WHY they are taking a knee....all they are talking about is that they are disrespecting the flag. You can get headline and be on the news if you smash windows and riot but I don't know that riots ever change anything for the better.

"We'll win over their hearts and minds or we'll burning their gd village to the ground!" Is not a good campaign!

How about this exercise; give me an example of where there was a 'correct' protest. Where a bunch of people went out and protested, and everyone said, "oh man...good point, let's change!!" And they went merrily skipping down the road....

If something needs changed, it's going to be hard, and there will be a lot of butt hurt along the way. It's just the nature of change. Saying you want a protest that doesn't ruffle feathers is like saying you want an effective workout that doesn't cause you to exert yourself.

My Race Log

Master

5557

, California

Subject: RE: NFL

Demonstrate all you want but do so without disrespecting the US flag.

OK this is one part I absolutely hate hearing. Remember the old quote: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

When the national anthem plays, take a moment to remember that this freedom is what we are placing value on. It's not freedom if it's conditional.

My Race Log

Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by 3mar

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by 3mar

Originally posted by Left Brain

protesting in a way that might get someone to actually pay attention to the cause you're protesting a

Dude....this protest has got more people to open a dialog than any other in recent history. Protests aren't necessarily about changing peoples' minds, it's about bringing issues to light. This has done an exceptional job of it.

Don't pizs down my back and tell me it's raining. All they did was pizz a bunch of people off unnecessarily. People burn flags to get attention but the attention they get is not the attention they wanted. No one is talking about WHY they are taking a knee....all they are talking about is that they are disrespecting the flag. You can get headline and be on the news if you smash windows and riot but I don't know that riots ever change anything for the better.

"We'll win over their hearts and minds or we'll burning their gd village to the ground!" Is not a good campaign!

How about this exercise; give me an example of where there was a 'correct' protest. Where a bunch of people went out and protested, and everyone said, "oh man...good point, let's change!!" And they went merrily skipping down the road....

If something needs changed, it's going to be hard, and there will be a lot of butt hurt along the way. It's just the nature of change. Saying you want a protest that doesn't ruffle feathers is like saying you want an effective workout that doesn't cause you to exert yourself.

Selma Civil Rights Marches maybe?

Actually, I fundamentally agree with you. Protest might assuage your anger and make you think you are changing things but usually it take work to make changes. It takes a leader and it takes focus and it takes a plan or a strategy! You can't just 'occupy the park' and whine about corporate profits and expect the CEOs are going to look at you sleeping in a tent and peeing in the grass and say, "I think I will scale back the company goals this year so we just break even."

No one ever looked at BLM blocking traffic and causing people to be late for work and doctor's appointments and weddings and said, "Oh yeah.....you are right, black lives DO matter!"

My Race Log

Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by spudone

Demonstrate all you want but do so without disrespecting the US flag.

OK this is one part I absolutely hate hearing. Remember the old quote: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

When the national anthem plays, take a moment to remember that this freedom is what we are placing value on. It's not freedom if it's conditional.

Every freedom is conditional!

You have freedom of speech but try walking into a Starbucks (in Seattle) and start talking about the evils of homosexual sin and see how long you get to exercise that freedom before someone takes you out or has your arrested. We have freedom of press but start writing that people should rise up in armed revolution against the government and see where that gets you.

But back to the football game....I paid $85 for my seat to the football game with the expectation of seeing football. I didn't come to watch your 'protest' and disrespect the American flag. NFL is a business! If your employees pizs off customers you have a problem!!

A few years ago my wife was in Barnes and Noble and the cashier had several tongue piercings. My wife was so disgusted she went and talked to the manager. She said respectfully that she was disgusted having to talk to the clerk because of all the piercings. The manager explained that B&N policy allowed the piercings. My wife politely said, "I understand. Books-A-Million is only about 1/2 mile from here." The manager said she understood and would send my wife's feedback up the chain.

As an employee I agree to a certain code of conduct. If I became a skinhead, shaved my head and got a swastika tattooed on my forehead, I'd be fired in a NY minute. Yes, I have freedom of expression but there are conditions.....

My Race Log

Pro

15655

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by 3mar

Originally posted by Left Brain

protesting in a way that might get someone to actually pay attention to the cause you're protesting a

Dude....this protest has got more people to open a dialog than any other in recent history. Protests aren't necessarily about changing peoples' minds, it's about bringing issues to light. This has done an exceptional job of it.

As someone who has stood in the middle of more protests then I care to remember the last 3 years, and heard just about all there is to hear from all sides....respectfully, you're crazy. If anything, the gulf is wider now than ever. There is no dialog.....that takes 2 sides actually talking to each other.

Don't get me wrong.......I"m in no hurry for there to be any change OR agreement. This has already taken a year off of my planned retirement date, and closing in on another.

Edited by Left Brain 2017-09-27 12:38 PM

Pro

15655

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by 3mar

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by 3mar

Originally posted by Left Brain

protesting in a way that might get someone to actually pay attention to the cause you're protesting a

Dude....this protest has got more people to open a dialog than any other in recent history. Protests aren't necessarily about changing peoples' minds, it's about bringing issues to light. This has done an exceptional job of it.

Don't pizs down my back and tell me it's raining. All they did was pizz a bunch of people off unnecessarily. People burn flags to get attention but the attention they get is not the attention they wanted. No one is talking about WHY they are taking a knee....all they are talking about is that they are disrespecting the flag. You can get headline and be on the news if you smash windows and riot but I don't know that riots ever change anything for the better. "We'll win over their hearts and minds or we'll burning their gd village to the ground!" Is not a good campaign!

How about this exercise; give me an example of where there was a 'correct' protest. Where a bunch of people went out and protested, and everyone said, "oh man...good point, let's change!!" And they went merrily skipping down the road.... If something needs changed, it's going to be hard, and there will be a lot of butt hurt along the way. It's just the nature of change. Saying you want a protest that doesn't ruffle feathers is like saying you want an effective workout that doesn't cause you to exert yourself.

Selma Civil Rights Marches maybe? Actually, I fundamentally agree with you. Protest might assuage your anger and make you think you are changing things but usually it take work to make changes. It takes a leader and it takes focus and it takes a plan or a strategy! You can't just 'occupy the park' and whine about corporate profits and expect the CEOs are going to look at you sleeping in a tent and peeing in the grass and say, "I think I will scale back the company goals this year so we just break even." No one ever looked at BLM blocking traffic and causing people to be late for work and doctor's appointments and weddings and said, "Oh yeah.....you are right, black lives DO matter!"

One thing all the protesting and whining accomplished.......it got Trump elected......and it's pretty obvious from what I see and hear that folks STILL haven't learned that lesson. LOL

1502

Katy, Texas

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by spudone

Demonstrate all you want but do so without disrespecting the US flag.

OK this is one part I absolutely hate hearing. Remember the old quote: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

When the national anthem plays, take a moment to remember that this freedom is what we are placing value on. It's not freedom if it's conditional.

Every freedom is conditional!

You have freedom of speech but try walking into a Starbucks (in Seattle) and start talking about the evils of homosexual sin and see how long you get to exercise that freedom before someone takes you out or has your arrested. We have freedom of press but start writing that people should rise up in armed revolution against the government and see where that gets you.

But back to the football game....I paid $85 for my seat to the football game with the expectation of seeing football. I didn't come to watch your 'protest' and disrespect the American flag. NFL is a business! If your employees pizs off customers you have a problem!!

A few years ago my wife was in Barnes and Noble and the cashier had several tongue piercings. My wife was so disgusted she went and talked to the manager. She said respectfully that she was disgusted having to talk to the clerk because of all the piercings. The manager explained that B&N policy allowed the piercings. My wife politely said, "I understand. Books-A-Million is only about 1/2 mile from here." The manager said she understood and would send my wife's feedback up the chain.

As an employee I agree to a certain code of conduct. If I became a skinhead, shaved my head and got a swastika tattooed on my forehead, I'd be fired in a NY minute. Yes, I have freedom of expression but there are conditions.....

You would not be arrested in the starbucks unless you were infringing on other rights. It's not against the law. Other patrons may utilize their right to counter you, but if they touch you, or infringe on your rights, they will be arrested. You may be asked to leave since it is a private establishment, and if you don't, you will be arrested. Just like going into a Christian bookstore and preaching marriage equality will likely get you asked to leave...and if you don't, you can be arrested. You have the right to do either outside of either store. What's the issue here?

The NFL has the right to allow the protest. You have the right to not give them your business. What's the issue again?

It's the NFL's business to run...quick getting your panties in a bunch about it. Rights go both ways...chill.

My Race Log

Master

5557

, California

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by Rogillio
Every freedom is conditional!

When I said it's not freedom if it's conditional, I'm not talking about consequences. That's different. If an NFL owner fires players who are at-will employees, sure he can do that. If the Starbucks manager wants to escort me out for disrupting his business, he can do that.

If someone wants to burn a flag or sit for the anthem, many people dislike it, but we should respect their voice. If, hypothetically, a bunch of players want to wear POW / MIA armbands for a game, in violation of the uniform requirements, I'm sure many fans would love it. We respect that voice too.

An owner can fire them or ignore them or support them. And you can vote with your dollars either way.

I'm just saying that speech we don't like to hear is a very important thing. If we try to silence everyone we disagree with it wouldn't be America.

My Race Log

Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by 3mar

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by spudone

Demonstrate all you want but do so without disrespecting the US flag.

OK this is one part I absolutely hate hearing. Remember the old quote: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

When the national anthem plays, take a moment to remember that this freedom is what we are placing value on. It's not freedom if it's conditional.

Every freedom is conditional!

You have freedom of speech but try walking into a Starbucks (in Seattle) and start talking about the evils of homosexual sin and see how long you get to exercise that freedom before someone takes you out or has your arrested. We have freedom of press but start writing that people should rise up in armed revolution against the government and see where that gets you.

But back to the football game....I paid $85 for my seat to the football game with the expectation of seeing football. I didn't come to watch your 'protest' and disrespect the American flag. NFL is a business! If your employees pizs off customers you have a problem!!

A few years ago my wife was in Barnes and Noble and the cashier had several tongue piercings. My wife was so disgusted she went and talked to the manager. She said respectfully that she was disgusted having to talk to the clerk because of all the piercings. The manager explained that B&N policy allowed the piercings. My wife politely said, "I understand. Books-A-Million is only about 1/2 mile from here." The manager said she understood and would send my wife's feedback up the chain.

As an employee I agree to a certain code of conduct. If I became a skinhead, shaved my head and got a swastika tattooed on my forehead, I'd be fired in a NY minute. Yes, I have freedom of expression but there are conditions.....

You would not be arrested in the starbucks unless you were infringing on other rights. It's not against the law. Other patrons may utilize their right to counter you, but if they touch you, or infringe on your rights, they will be arrested. You may be asked to leave since it is a private establishment, and if you don't, you will be arrested. Just like going into a Christian bookstore and preaching marriage equality will likely get you asked to leave...and if you don't, you can be arrested. You have the right to do either outside of either store. What's the issue here?

The NFL has the right to allow the protest. You have the right to not give them your business. What's the issue again?

It's the NFL's business to run...quick getting your panties in a bunch about it. Rights go both ways...chill.

Keep your hands and your metaphors off my panties mister!

I'm not upset or angry or distraught or disillusioned or disheartened or disgusted or disgruntled....I am mostly just amused. Every time I look at Facebook I see more and more people burning fan stuff and avowing to never again support the NFL. The left made a HUGE miscalculation. Never bet against patriotism. Never be on the opposite side of the debate when US servicemen and veterans are involved. You can wax eloquently all you want about the right to protest but to the family of a service member who lost a limb or lost their life all they hear is bla, bla, bla. To them the flag is sacred....much as the cross is to Christians.

People just need to use some wisdom.....don't show up at the PETA rally with ribeye on your breath and A-1 stains on your tie.

My Race Log

Champion

10157

Alabama

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by Rogillio
Every freedom is conditional!

When I said it's not freedom if it's conditional, I'm not talking about consequences. That's different. If an NFL owner fires players who are at-will employees, sure he can do that. If the Starbucks manager wants to escort me out for disrupting his business, he can do that.

If someone wants to burn a flag or sit for the anthem, many people dislike it, but we should respect their voice. If, hypothetically, a bunch of players want to wear POW / MIA armbands for a game, in violation of the uniform requirements, I'm sure many fans would love it. We respect that voice too.

An owner can fire them or ignore them or support them. And you can vote with your dollars either way.

I'm just saying that speech we don't like to hear is a very important thing. If we try to silence everyone we disagree with it wouldn't be America.

I understand your point. You are right, I mentioned consequences. Let me try again.

You have the right to vote, the right to buy and drink alcohol, the right bear arms, the right to drive a car, the right to stay in bed all day if you choose. Then one day your get a wild hair and you rob a 7/11 and get away with $430 and a carton of Lucky Strikes! Two month later you find yourself getting free room and board for 3 to 5 years. All those rights you had are suddenly revoked. Those rights were conditional based on your obeying the laws of society.

You have the right to wear a pony tail and grow a beard and give speeches trashing the POTUS. The one day you decide you are not living up to your potential. You realize you are not being all that you can be. You drive your pos Dodge Dart to the local Army recruiting station and join the Army! Soon you realize you no long have to the freedom to come and go as you please. You no longer have the right to wear a pony tail and you gave up the right to talk trash about the POTUS at your local pussyhat demonstration. You voluntarily surrender many of your rights when you joined the army.

You have the right to rant and rave about social injustice. But when you are at work, at church, in a movie theater, in a nice restaurant, at wedding, at a funeral, you kids graduation, you son's little league game you VOLUNTARILY forego that right for the sake of civility and respect of other people right to not have to listen to your drivel.

Side note...about your avatar and football. The last pro game I went to was in Seattle...I think they were playing the Raiders. Co-worker in Seattle gave me and my buddy his season ticket seats about 6 rows back from the 40 yd line.

My Race Log

Master

5557

, California

Subject: RE: NFL

Side note...about your avatar and football. The last pro game I went to was in Seattle...I think they were playing the Raiders. Co-worker in Seattle gave me and my buddy his season ticket seats about 6 rows back from the 40 yd line.

So what you're saying is you're deaf now

Pretty loud, eh?

My Race Log

249

Subject: RE: NFL

Originally posted by Rogillio

Originally posted by Burchib

Not trying to be an here, but how could you compare Nazis and skin heads to anti-abortion protests? Jeepers dude.

It was easy. See what I did was just wrote: "If the football stadium is a good venue to protest, what happens when the klan or the skin heads or neo Nazis or the anti-abortion people or the BLM or the pussyhats show up hold a rally before or during a game?"

The operative word is PROTESTS. I don't care if you are protesting global climate change, protesting Donald Trump or Hillary or protesting for the $15/hr minimum wage. Protest is protest and it's not up to me or you to decide what is acceptable protest and what is not acceptable protest. Just because someone labels a group a "hate group" does not mean they lost their constitutional right to assemble and demonstrate and protest. The fact that I find the triple K the most despicable group of cowards in the country does not mean they don't have the right to assemble and demonstrate just a much as the gay pride crowd and the save-the-whales people.

What bothers me in when you take the protest where it doesn't belong. People don't go to a football game to watch you air your grievances about perceived injustice in the world. Yes, there is injustice. The fact that they make 2 million a year and I don't is a f'ing tragedy of justice! You want to protest do it on your own time! You are an employee of the NFL and contracted to play football not promote your own agendas.

I've seen dozens of videos now of fan burning hundreds of dollars worth of sports paraphernalia. These people are done. They won't be back for a long time...if ever. The NFL took a gamble and they crapped out. I'm not sure how they recover now.

The left wants to portray this as 'freedom to demonstrate'....unfortunately most people aren't buying it. Demonstrate all you want but do so without disrespecting the US flag.

OK-I see your point and it is a good one. Thanks.

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1502

Katy, Texas

Subject: RE: NFL

Your panties are your business....I'm a live and let live kind of a guy!

I have to disagree with you though. The NFL is in about as much risk of major financial backlash as Chic-fil-a was after their owner or CEO or whatever mentioned his marriage beliefs on the radio. Everyone was all outraged, but the general public forgets easily when it comes to something they love. Football and waffle fries both fit on that list.

My Race Log

Master

5557

, California

Subject: RE: NFL

Let's just hope the refs don't get involved and go on strike

My Race Log

Pro

15655

Subject: RE: NFL

I agree with Rogillo AND 3mar. For sure the players can have their say if the owners want to let them. For sure I can spend my leisure money somewhere that I don't have to watch a protest.....because I ain't paying to see that. (if I have to watch a protest, I'm getting paid.....well. Ya'll can decide how much you want to put up with....I'm smiling at everybody I meet ) Everybody should be happy. It'll all come out in the wash and we'll see what will be.

Hockey season is about to start......it's all good.

Edited by Left Brain 2017-09-27 7:46 PM

Extreme Veteran

3025

Maryland

Subject: RE: NFL

Real solution, stop watching football, watch Hockey. AGREED.

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NFL

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