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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() http://us.cnn.com/2013/03/20/living/po-bronson-ashley-merryman-top-dog-qa/index.html?hpt=hp_c2 Very interesting topic this. We all want our kids to succeed. I'm not sure one size fits all works here 100% of the time, but to a large degree I think as parents, coaches, mentors we often do our kids a disservice with the everyone's a winner approach. That said I'm not emphasizing that 5 year olds should be competing at all costs, but as kids get older I think its important that they learn to deal with not being the best, to recover from set backs, and that we as parents or coaches teach them to learn from mistakes, believe in themselves, and keep trying to be the best (or their best). Interested to hear other comments please... |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm not sure what they are trying to say. At one point, they claim the way to make kids want to compete is to make sure they are always in situations that they are likely to win the competition ("Parents can wire their children so they are ready to compete. One way is to make sure you never put your child in a competition they don't have a fighting chance of winning."). OK, so since I am never going to break into the top half of any kind of race, I shouldn't compete? And the very next paragraph talks about everything being a competition. With whom? I'm reminded of the tag line of one of my podcasts - The Dinner Party. "Helping you win your dinner party". You don't "win" at dinner parties, and that's part of the joke. You can be a more interesting person, with intersting ideas, and lots of interesting knowledge. But it's not a competition, except against the other versions of you who are less so. I prefer to think about kids in terms of resiliancy - being able to tolerate and bounce back from misfortunes and things generally not going well - as well as having a strong sense of self - what motivates them, what are their personal obstacles and how to overcome them, and how to make things generally better for themselves and the world around them. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() while i agree that everyone gets a trophy and a huge elaborate graduation ceremony for EVERY SINGLE GRADE are ridiculous, just the title of their book turns me off - "how to raise a winner." what if your kid doesn't want to be a "winner," whatever that means? what if he prefers writing short stories to dominating in sports? what if she doesn't LIKE band? why do people force their kids to do tons of activities and need them to be rockstars in every one? that kind of pressure would have made me a MISERABLE kid, and high school is tough enough already. i did a lot of stuff as a kid, and my mom was supportive and encouraging, when things were hard she never let me just give up, but i never felt like she was trying to "raise a winner." puke. (PS not a parent so you can ignore all of the above. i do expect my dogs to win at cuteness, and they always do.) Edited by mehaner 2013-03-21 7:17 AM |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Just looking at the title, it kinda seems like BS. Without having read the book and basing my comments strictly on the article, I don't think it's necessarily "competition" that helps kids succeed. What helps kids succeed is developing good organizational habits and study skills. Our society has made it that a college degree and advanced, Is pretty necessary for advancement in most jobs. And the ability to do tedious work consistently is a necessary skill. So I stress routine. Kids need to know how to approach problems and work through them without giving up. When one puts an emphasis on winning then kids give up if they think they might lose. I require my son to play a sport, and practice a music instrument. (I let him choose though) I'm also a huge fan of "Odyssey of the Mind". He likes to spend time with friends and I encourage him to do that as well. I've made my house friend friendly as possible. I praise hard work that ends in a good result. I do not tell my gifted son he's smart. I am definitely a Forest Gump mom, smart is as smart does. (the converse is true too) Edited by KateTri1 2013-03-21 7:53 AM |
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Sneaky Slow ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I'm interested in how my children do in relation to their own potential, not in relation to how others are doing. If anyone ought to understand that concept, it's a bunch of triathletes, most of for whom winning a triathlon is nowhere close to a remote possibility. Edited by tealeaf 2013-03-21 7:29 AM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() One size fits all parenting is like one size fits all clothing. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I have some pretty vague goals with my child. I want him to always feel loved (the parents' job) and to always be kind. After that, I echo tealeaf's sentiments. Be your best self you can be. Life isn't like golf. We don't all play with the same scorecard. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() tealeaf - 2013-03-21 7:27 AM I'm interested in how my children do in relation to their own potential, not in relation to how others are doing. If anyone ought to understand that concept, it's a bunch of triathletes, most of for whom winning a triathlon is nowhere close to a remote possibility. That sounds good, but eventually they will be measured in relation to others. Whether it be competition for a job, entrance to the school they want to attend, and athletic scholarship, whatever.....they WILL be judged against others. I simply teach my kids the same thing I was taught...."hard work pays off". It can be applied to studying, athletics, music, etc. I don't care if they win....I care if they spend the time to be prepared for whatever they are up against....a race, a big test, it doesn't matter, the principle is the same. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Left Brain - 2013-03-21 9:59 AM tealeaf - 2013-03-21 7:27 AM I'm interested in how my children do in relation to their own potential, not in relation to how others are doing. If anyone ought to understand that concept, it's a bunch of triathletes, most of for whom winning a triathlon is nowhere close to a remote possibility. That sounds good, but eventually they will be measured in relation to others. Whether it be competition for a job, entrance to the school they want to attend, and athletic scholarship, whatever.....they WILL be judged against others. I simply teach my kids the same thing I was taught...."hard work pays off". It can be applied to studying, athletics, music, etc. I don't care if they win....I care if they spend the time to be prepared for whatever they are up against....a race, a big test, it doesn't matter, the principle is the same. Actually, smart work pays off better... |
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![]() | ![]() KateTri1 - 2013-03-21 9:02 AM Left Brain - 2013-03-21 9:59 AM tealeaf - 2013-03-21 7:27 AM I'm interested in how my children do in relation to their own potential, not in relation to how others are doing. If anyone ought to understand that concept, it's a bunch of triathletes, most of for whom winning a triathlon is nowhere close to a remote possibility. That sounds good, but eventually they will be measured in relation to others. Whether it be competition for a job, entrance to the school they want to attend, and athletic scholarship, whatever.....they WILL be judged against others. I simply teach my kids the same thing I was taught...."hard work pays off". It can be applied to studying, athletics, music, etc. I don't care if they win....I care if they spend the time to be prepared for whatever they are up against....a race, a big test, it doesn't matter, the principle is the same. Actually, smart work pays off better... You're both missing it. Smart Hard Work pays off the best!!! |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I read that yesterday and was interested to see what it had to say. I actually downloaded and read the first 3 chapters of their earlier book Nutureshock last night (I figured reading that one first would might put the second one in context.) I have to say I am really enjoying it. They quote a lot of studies on praising outcome vs. effort and how kids do on subsequent challenges. (cliffnotes- much better to praise effort than outcome.) I am really enjoying it. When they are talking about kids succeeding they don't limit it to sports- they say find something your kid is good at - spelling bees, painting etc. It is definitely making me re-think some of the ways I interact with my daughter. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Moonrocket - 2013-03-21 10:43 AM I read that yesterday and was interested to see what it had to say. I actually downloaded and read the first 3 chapters of their earlier book Nutureshock last night (I figured reading that one first would might put the second one in context.) I have to say I am really enjoying it. They quote a lot of studies on praising outcome vs. effort and how kids do on subsequent challenges. (cliffnotes- much better to praise effort than outcome.) I am really enjoying it. When they are talking about kids succeeding they don't limit it to sports- they say find something your kid is good at - spelling bees, painting etc. It is definitely making me re-think some of the ways I interact with my daughter. Succeeding=/=competing. I can like to paint - but who am I competing with? And how does one measure "success" at painting? I recently started to learn how to turn wood with a lathe. My efforts so far are not anything great, but I am having fun. I am not competing with anyone, and only I will be the arbitrator of the success of my little projects. I think it is more important to have the ability to tolerate being a newbie at things in order to be a lifelong learner - which means tolerating "losing" or "failing" at first - which means having resiliency and a strong sense of self along with a healthy curiosity and interest in things. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() KateTri1 - 2013-03-21 9:02 AM Left Brain - 2013-03-21 9:59 AM tealeaf - 2013-03-21 7:27 AM I'm interested in how my children do in relation to their own potential, not in relation to how others are doing. If anyone ought to understand that concept, it's a bunch of triathletes, most of for whom winning a triathlon is nowhere close to a remote possibility. That sounds good, but eventually they will be measured in relation to others. Whether it be competition for a job, entrance to the school they want to attend, and athletic scholarship, whatever.....they WILL be judged against others. I simply teach my kids the same thing I was taught...."hard work pays off". It can be applied to studying, athletics, music, etc. I don't care if they win....I care if they spend the time to be prepared for whatever they are up against....a race, a big test, it doesn't matter, the principle is the same. Actually, smart work pays off better... Semantics...but yeah, it all needs to have some thought in it. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() gearboy - 2013-03-21 10:53 AM Moonrocket - 2013-03-21 10:43 AM I read that yesterday and was interested to see what it had to say. I actually downloaded and read the first 3 chapters of their earlier book Nutureshock last night (I figured reading that one first would might put the second one in context.) I have to say I am really enjoying it. They quote a lot of studies on praising outcome vs. effort and how kids do on subsequent challenges. (cliffnotes- much better to praise effort than outcome.) I am really enjoying it. When they are talking about kids succeeding they don't limit it to sports- they say find something your kid is good at - spelling bees, painting etc. It is definitely making me re-think some of the ways I interact with my daughter. Succeeding=/=competing. I can like to paint - but who am I competing with? And how does one measure "success" at painting? I recently started to learn how to turn wood with a lathe. My efforts so far are not anything great, but I am having fun. I am not competing with anyone, and only I will be the arbitrator of the success of my little projects. I think it is more important to have the ability to tolerate being a newbie at things in order to be a lifelong learner - which means tolerating "losing" or "failing" at first - which means having resiliency and a strong sense of self along with a healthy curiosity and interest in things. I think this may be what they mean when they talk about expanding your child's comfort zone, though I think the competition wording is getting in the way of expressing the idea. I know people with very narrow comfort zones who won't try anything new or outside their experience because they are unable to expand their horizons and are too focused on things like winning/attaining a goal to enjoy the process. If the win/goal isn't 95% assured they won't even try. I would prefer to teach my child it is better to fall down 100 time than to never try anything new out of fear of failure. Just make sure you get up 101 times!
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GomesBolt - 2013-03-21 9:14 AM KateTri1 - 2013-03-21 9:02 AM Left Brain - 2013-03-21 9:59 AM tealeaf - 2013-03-21 7:27 AM I'm interested in how my children do in relation to their own potential, not in relation to how others are doing. If anyone ought to understand that concept, it's a bunch of triathletes, most of for whom winning a triathlon is nowhere close to a remote possibility. That sounds good, but eventually they will be measured in relation to others. Whether it be competition for a job, entrance to the school they want to attend, and athletic scholarship, whatever.....they WILL be judged against others. I simply teach my kids the same thing I was taught...."hard work pays off". It can be applied to studying, athletics, music, etc. I don't care if they win....I care if they spend the time to be prepared for whatever they are up against....a race, a big test, it doesn't matter, the principle is the same. Actually, smart work pays off better... You're both missing it. Smart Hard Work pays off the best!!! Kate just likes to argue.......it's offensive. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Left Brain - 2013-03-21 11:06 AM GomesBolt - 2013-03-21 9:14 AM KateTri1 - 2013-03-21 9:02 AM Left Brain - 2013-03-21 9:59 AM tealeaf - 2013-03-21 7:27 AM I'm interested in how my children do in relation to their own potential, not in relation to how others are doing. If anyone ought to understand that concept, it's a bunch of triathletes, most of for whom winning a triathlon is nowhere close to a remote possibility. That sounds good, but eventually they will be measured in relation to others. Whether it be competition for a job, entrance to the school they want to attend, and athletic scholarship, whatever.....they WILL be judged against others. I simply teach my kids the same thing I was taught...."hard work pays off". It can be applied to studying, athletics, music, etc. I don't care if they win....I care if they spend the time to be prepared for whatever they are up against....a race, a big test, it doesn't matter, the principle is the same. Actually, smart work pays off better... You're both missing it. Smart Hard Work pays off the best!!! Kate just likes to argue.......it's offensive. I do not!!! You Are waaaay wrong!!! Oh, no wait... you meant the other Kate didn't you? |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() semi relevant side note. We had a youngish kid, fresh out of college, that we recently hired and had to let go after only a short time here. (they were a temp agency employee so it was easier to do than a full hire, not that it is ever fun to do any of it). When I pulled her into my office to give her the bad news she almost broke down into tears and after some questions what it came down to was - she said she was doing her best and wanted to know why that was not good enough. if it was her best, how can we let her go for not being able to do better. To me that gets to the core of an issue that faces a lot of younger people these days (I say being 29 but having been raised completely self sufficient due to my living situation, or lack of one, in my teenage years). They have been raised being told their effort is what counts - do your best and be proud and you can get whatever you work for etc... when the truth is, you can put as much effort as you want into something but if what you are doing is still not good enough - you will have to face the reality of loss and failure. This girl was obviously not set up to face that reality in any way/shape/or form. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() trinnas - 2013-03-21 11:12 AM Left Brain - 2013-03-21 11:06 AM GomesBolt - 2013-03-21 9:14 AM KateTri1 - 2013-03-21 9:02 AM Left Brain - 2013-03-21 9:59 AM tealeaf - 2013-03-21 7:27 AM I'm interested in how my children do in relation to their own potential, not in relation to how others are doing. If anyone ought to understand that concept, it's a bunch of triathletes, most of for whom winning a triathlon is nowhere close to a remote possibility. That sounds good, but eventually they will be measured in relation to others. Whether it be competition for a job, entrance to the school they want to attend, and athletic scholarship, whatever.....they WILL be judged against others. I simply teach my kids the same thing I was taught...."hard work pays off". It can be applied to studying, athletics, music, etc. I don't care if they win....I care if they spend the time to be prepared for whatever they are up against....a race, a big test, it doesn't matter, the principle is the same. Actually, smart work pays off better... You're both missing it. Smart Hard Work pays off the best!!! Kate just likes to argue.......it's offensive. I do not!!! You Are waaaay wrong!!! Oh, no wait... you meant the other Kate didn't you? No, i think he meant you. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() KateTri1 - 2013-03-21 12:36 PM trinnas - 2013-03-21 11:12 AM Left Brain - 2013-03-21 11:06 AM GomesBolt - 2013-03-21 9:14 AM KateTri1 - 2013-03-21 9:02 AM Left Brain - 2013-03-21 9:59 AM tealeaf - 2013-03-21 7:27 AM I'm interested in how my children do in relation to their own potential, not in relation to how others are doing. If anyone ought to understand that concept, it's a bunch of triathletes, most of for whom winning a triathlon is nowhere close to a remote possibility. That sounds good, but eventually they will be measured in relation to others. Whether it be competition for a job, entrance to the school they want to attend, and athletic scholarship, whatever.....they WILL be judged against others. I simply teach my kids the same thing I was taught...."hard work pays off". It can be applied to studying, athletics, music, etc. I don't care if they win....I care if they spend the time to be prepared for whatever they are up against....a race, a big test, it doesn't matter, the principle is the same. Actually, smart work pays off better... You're both missing it. Smart Hard Work pays off the best!!! Kate just likes to argue.......it's offensive. I do not!!! You Are waaaay wrong!!! Oh, no wait... you meant the other Kate didn't you? No, i think he meant you. Not possible! I am the soul of docility. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bel83 - 2013-03-21 12:00 PM semi relevant side note. We had a youngish kid, fresh out of college, that we recently hired and had to let go after only a short time here. (they were a temp agency employee so it was easier to do than a full hire, not that it is ever fun to do any of it). When I pulled her into my office to give her the bad news she almost broke down into tears and after some questions what it came down to was - she said she was doing her best and wanted to know why that was not good enough. if it was her best, how can we let her go for not being able to do better. To me that gets to the core of an issue that faces a lot of younger people these days (I say being 29 but having been raised completely self sufficient due to my living situation, or lack of one, in my teenage years). They have been raised being told their effort is what counts - do your best and be proud and you can get whatever you work for etc... when the truth is, you can put as much effort as you want into something but if what you are doing is still not good enough - you will have to face the reality of loss and failure. This girl was obviously not set up to face that reality in any way/shape/or form. There is definitely an entitlement attitude with a lot of young people. That I do believe it is the fault of parents. In regards to the young hire, she was prolly just upset at losing the job... I've certainly never promised my son a rose garden. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() "How to Raise a Winning Child..." ..."winning," who wrote this stuff, Charlie Sheen? I liked Trinnas' post earlier regarding 1-size fits all parenting being like 1-size fits all clothing. I'd prefer a happy, well-adjusted child to a "winning" miserable Olympic hopeful. ...the only pressure I'd put on my kids is to make sure they can lathe wood better than Gearboy...so, basically, no pressure at all. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ChineseDemocracy - 2013-03-21 3:42 PM "How to Raise a Winning Child..." ..."winning," who wrote this stuff, Charlie Sheen? I liked Trinnas' post earlier regarding 1-size fits all parenting being like 1-size fits all clothing. I'd prefer a happy, well-adjusted child to a "winning" miserable Olympic hopeful. ...the only pressure I'd put on my kids is to make sure they can lathe wood better than Gearboy...so, basically, no pressure at all. You realize that you can have both, right? I think that some of today's ideas and attitudes have gone over the line too far. There is nothing wrong with winning.....there never will be. I spend a good deal of time with some VERY talented child athletes.....I would say the "miserable" Olympic hopeful is not nearly as prevalent as the kid who happens to be talented and loves the training, racing, and friendships that form from it. That is the overwhelming majority. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Left Brain - 2013-03-21 5:19 PM ChineseDemocracy - 2013-03-21 3:42 PM "How to Raise a Winning Child..." ..."winning," who wrote this stuff, Charlie Sheen? I liked Trinnas' post earlier regarding 1-size fits all parenting being like 1-size fits all clothing. I'd prefer a happy, well-adjusted child to a "winning" miserable Olympic hopeful. ...the only pressure I'd put on my kids is to make sure they can lathe wood better than Gearboy...so, basically, no pressure at all. You realize that you can have both, right? I think that some of today's ideas and attitudes have gone over the line too far. There is nothing wrong with winning.....there never will be. I spend a good deal of time with some VERY talented child athletes.....I would say the "miserable" Olympic hopeful is not nearly as prevalent as the kid who happens to be talented and loves the training, racing, and friendships that form from it. That is the overwhelming majority. Yes, you can have both. I don't believe I said winning is bad, has anyone else? I don't disagree with anything you wrote in the 3rd paragraph. Perhaps you were referring to the "every kid gets a trophy" philosophy earlier? I don't think there's anything wrong with a participant medal or paper, what's it hurt? My favorite young child award would be personal bests. Sure, recognize the high achievers, that's cool too. I will say I've seen plenty of ridiculous parents making their child participate in activities they don't want to participate in. That saddens me. The fire should come from within.
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ChineseDemocracy - 2013-03-21 4:42 PM "How to Raise a Winning Child..." ..."winning," who wrote this stuff, Charlie Sheen? I liked Trinnas' post earlier regarding 1-size fits all parenting being like 1-size fits all clothing. I'd prefer a happy, well-adjusted child to a "winning" miserable Olympic hopeful. ...the only pressure I'd put on my kids is to make sure they can lathe wood better than Gearboy...so, basically, no pressure at all. Seriously - my eggs look more like lumpy acorns... |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() ChineseDemocracy - 2013-03-20 4:42 PM "How to Raise a Winning Child..." ..."winning," who wrote this stuff, Charlie Sheen? I liked Trinnas' post earlier regarding 1-size fits all parenting being like 1-size fits all clothing. I'd prefer a happy, well-adjusted child to a "winning" miserable Olympic hopeful. ...the only pressure I'd put on my kids is to make sure they can lathe wood better than Gearboy...so, basically, no pressure at all.
I just want to make sure my kids never use "lathe" as a verb.
(you turn wood on a lathe.) |
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