Swimming Strokes / min

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2013-03-29 9:22 AM


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Subject: Swimming Strokes / min
Okay so I've just been swimming and I hear a lot of talk on here about stroke rate etc so I thought I would share some info.

I was doing 16 strokes per 25m length, and my time was approximately 26 secs per length.

I feel when I swim that I glide a lot but also I feel quite comfortable with my stroke and if I go any faster then I fatigue quickly, I usually feel the burn in my triceps and shoulders first.

2013-03-29 9:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min
i read somewhere that pretty much all pro swimmers swim around 80 strokes per minute, their amount of strokes to cover the length of the pool varies quite a bit, but the stroke rate range is pretty tight.
2013-03-29 9:43 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min

Longhorn1981 - 2013-03-29 4:22 PM I was doing 16 strokes per 25m length, and my time was approximately 26 secs per length.

Sounds like you're an overglider, that's a strokerate of just 37 strokes per minute. Check this video from swimsmooth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPrNv_G-YlQ

I feel when I swim that I glide a lot but also I feel quite comfortable with my stroke and if I go any faster then I fatigue quickly, I usually feel the burn in my triceps and shoulders first.

Sounds like a problem with your stroke: The main pull should come from the lats.

BR



Edited by erik.norgaard 2013-03-29 9:50 AM
2013-03-29 9:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min

In a related question, I have noticed that some folks count a "stroke" as a right AND a left stroke, while others count each arm separately.

Is the standard/correct way to define a stroke as one arm movement?  ie. count each side separately?

2013-03-29 9:52 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min

Count every arm stroke.

2013-03-29 9:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min
Yeah my 16 strokes are 8 right and 8 left.
Ok so it would appear that I am indeed an over glider.
My 100m time is about 1:45, and I am currently training for a sprint tri 500m and am doing the 500m in 10:45.
I wouldn't say I'm a fast swimmer but as my original post says I am aware that I glide a lot and I do have the distinctive kickstart kick that the swim smooth vid talks about.

Any drills to help this????

2013-03-29 10:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min
Be sure to check out this page.  Do this test.  It will help find your best stroke rate.
2013-03-29 1:11 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min
GAUG3, cheers for that, I think it would be interesting to do that test. I certainly need to up my stroke rate as mine calculates out at 37 strokes per minute.... That's ridiculous lol.

Maybe that's why I can't get faster than 10:45 per 500m.

Cheers all.
2013-03-29 1:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min

Not to sidetrack this thread, but a stupid, slightly related question. I have a  Garmin Swim watch which reports my strokes/length at typically 10 / 25 yards.  Is that 10 single arm strokes (most likely) or double arm strokes?  Does anyone happen to know?

 

And does the fact that it takes these 10 strokes 25-30 seconds to carry me 25 yards indicate a deep tendency towards over-gliding?

2013-03-29 2:17 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min
north_north_west - 2013-03-29 8:48 PM

Not to sidetrack this thread, but a stupid, slightly related question. I have a  Garmin Swim watch which reports my strokes/length at typically 10 / 25 yards.  Is that 10 single arm strokes (most likely) or double arm strokes?  Does anyone happen to know?

Your Garmin is on just one arm, and that's the arm it counts. So, it counts stroke cycles.

2013-03-29 2:52 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min

Also - since you are in a pool - keep in mind that your stroke rate will appear lower since most will kickoff from the wall and streamline for at least part of the distance.  For me, I find that using a tempo trainer is very helpful and I set it to beep right around every sec (60 spm).  I also tend to glide a little too long so I am trying to get used to a little higher stroke rate. I know that if I increase it too much, I break form and can't get my catch set properly.  If I just use my stroke count per length, I do right around 17 so the calculation at 1:40/100 gets me around 41 spm (which would be unrealistically slow and overgliding) but I know my stroke rate is closer to 60 spm since I stroke with the tempo trainer beep. 

I bet you are probably closer to 50-55 spm right now vs 37 spm.



Edited by m2tx 2013-03-29 2:52 PM

2013-03-29 4:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min
M2tx good point, I do tend to push off the wall and do a bit of a dolphin kick an then start my strokes so this could be 3 or 4 metres so yeah I'm probably about 45 to 50 but will check this next pool session.
2013-03-29 6:18 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min

Strokes per length and strokes per minute can vary a lot between swimmers, and with the same swimmer swimming at different levels of effort.

I have always been at around 20 to 21 strokes per 25 yard lap when I am swimming "strong". My efforts to decrease that only slowed me down. So I just ignored everyone who brags about a low stroke count. That just isn't my natural rate. People who have a low stroke count appear to generally fall into 4 catagories.

1) The very tall. Being 6' 3" to 6'5" will result in a longer pull, and fewer strokes per lap

2) People with a strong kick. As a distance freestryler I have never kicked much

3) People with big hands. Actually I'm just guessing on this one although I have a woman friend with very small hands and she has a much higher stroke rate than I do at any given speed.

3) Overgliders as mentioned above

A low stroke rate is not the holy grail of swimming faster. It is a combination of your natural stroke count and your strokes per minute. You should try to keep your stroke long, but don't get caught up in a number comparison game.

That being said I swim at 60-61 strokes per minute for a marathon swim. I tried to up it to 64 -65 but it caused me shoulder problems in the middle of the swim.

2013-03-29 11:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min
Two ways to estimate your tempo based on stroke count and your time.

The first way is to take your average time for 25 and subtract 4.5 seconds . This represents nonswimming time including pushoff or turns.

Then divide that time by the number of strokes you took.

For example if you swim 100 yards in two minutes you're averaging 30 seconds 25. Take 4 1/2 seconds off of 30 and you're left with a 25 1/2 seconds.

If you used 24 strokes to get across the pool, You're swimming in about one second for stroke.

However if it only took you 16 strokes to get across the pool, Your swimming at about 1.5 seconds per stroke more or less.

After you've estimated your tempo next step would be to actually use a tempo trainer and see how that tempo compares to your current swimming.

In the example of the person who took 24 strokes, set the tempo trainer for one second per stroke and try swimming 25, 50, 75, 100 yards at that tempo.

This is simply a test to estimate your current stroke tempo.

At this point in order to improve you have two choices. You can use the template trainer to try and improve your form, or you can use the tempo trainer to try and increase your speed.

An example of using it to improve your form would be to swim repeated 25 or 50s at progressively slower tempos, allow your stroke to lengthen out, and then gradually speed up the tempo again. What we frequently find in fact almost always, is that for someone checking a high rate with poor form, slowing the tempo to force the strength to lengthen result in improved form even when going back to the original tempo.


If you're happy with your form or not trying to improve it at the moment simply use the template trainer at incrementally faster paces to increase your speed. Try doing a set of 5 x 50 your current estimated tempo, then repeat sets of 5 x 50 at .02 seconds per stroke faster.

Compare your times for each round and see if you're continuing to get faster as you increase the tempo.

These are just two ideas, but the most important thing is that you have a way to estimate an accurate tempo based on stroke counts and pace.

The second way of estimating your tempo is to simply add three strokes to your count and use that to divide into your Pace per 25. Again this is just an estimate of your pushoff time before you start stroking. It's non-swimming time.

For example if you took 17 strokes to swim 25 yards simply add three and use a number of 20 to divide into your time and estimate tempo.


this isnt exactly what i would do in a lesson, but its a way to begin understanding more about your swi
mming

Disclaimer: this message was dictated on my phone and it's difficult to correct typos. I hope it's readable.


Edited by AdventureBear 2013-03-29 11:32 PM
2013-03-30 3:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Swimming Strokes / min
For me it's very simple. There is a large digital clock on the score board and I just check the clock, count 10 strokes, look at the clock and do the math.
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