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2016-12-12 8:10 AM

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Subject: Social Security
New efforts by the GOP to cut SS. Several changes they are looking at....mostly hurting the rich and middle class. Nevertheless the dems oppose it.

I have mixed feeling about social security. There are people who save all their lives for retirement to make sure they can live comfortably in their golden years. There are others who, despite making good money, never save a dime! So stay in a job thru good and bad times and build a savings and maybe a pension. Others go from job to job never staying long enough to build any seniority or promotions.

I just read "billionaires pay the same amount as someone making less than $118,000". While this is true, it is misleading. Someone making $120,000 also pays the same amount at someone making $118k. But the flip side of that is, when they calculate your maximum benefit, it is a capped as you highest income was $118k. I get my SS paid off sometime in Oct. I would gladly continue to pay SS thru then end of the year IF they raised the cap on the maximum benefit.

I think SS could save a ton of money if they looked at people on disability. I have a neighbor that sits on his back deck grilling steaks and drinking beer almost every day....all day long! I found out he is on SS disability for a back injury....for like 15 years! I don't know the whole story but it sure looks like he lived the life of Riley.

I remember my dad telling me how he had paid into SS every single paycheck for over 50 years....but would only get money back for a few years. He was right.


2016-12-12 2:34 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Social Security
Unless Social Security is changed to be welfare for the elderly (and other types of non-working situations), I don't understand why people would be expected to pay into it after they reach the current cap. You can't claim on one hand that you paid into it, now you should get money out of it, if you also expect others to pay more into it than they will possibly get.


2016-12-12 8:57 PM
in reply to: jmcconne

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Subject: RE: Social Security

The problem with social security is that it was created back when people died pretty early into retirement.  Now everyone is living a lot longer.
The other problem is the government is so wasteful that the actual return on the money going into social security is either nothing or negative.  Meaning if you would put the 7% in your shoebox every paycheck you'd get the exact same return.  That's moronic.

The R's have tried to give people an option to put it in mutual funds, but the dems shoot it down as "gambling with the retirement" and the D's just want to pump more money into it from the "rich".

It's really a numbers game, they either need to raise the tax rate or decrease the payouts.  There's nothing too controversial about that, but there's no politician who will ever dare go there and say it.
The stock market solution is creative, but no matter what I feel we as a nation need to be more fiscally responsible with the money.

2016-12-12 9:11 PM
in reply to: #5207312

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Subject: RE: Social Security
Tony, The Dems were not really behind the shooting down of privatizing SS pitched by Shrub at the beginning of his 2nd term. That would have been the folks saying it was not a great idea, the crash of 2008 proved them right

It is a tough question, the folks who really need to retire earlier because their bodies are beat up are generally not in a financial position to do so.
2016-12-12 9:54 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: Social Security

Originally posted by Oysterboy Tony, The Dems were not really behind the shooting down of privatizing SS pitched by Shrub at the beginning of his 2nd term. That would have been the folks saying it was not a great idea, the crash of 2008 proved them right It is a tough question, the folks who really need to retire earlier because their bodies are beat up are generally not in a financial position to do so.

I'm pretty sure the public support was behind it, but I'll admit I'm going from memory.  I'd also say the stock market today still proves it's a much better return than 0% from the government.  Remember, anyone putting in social security is contributing for 45+ years (normal career 20-65) so any 5-10 year blip in the market is just noise and even the lowest low of 2008 is stellar compared to the 45 years prior. 
For the record, I don't even know if that's the solution but I was just throwing it out there.  I just know what we're currently doing with the money is not working.  

2016-12-12 10:18 PM
in reply to: #5207407

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Subject: RE: Social Security
Agreed, this is a complex issue and the current system is clearly unsustainable. I would just like to know I got a shot at getting 25% of what I put in.


2016-12-13 8:23 AM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Social Security
Here's a thought.....why not make 401k's manadatory.....at maybe say 2% of your gross. Most people won't notice it.
2016-12-13 8:33 AM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Social Security

Originally posted by Rogillio Here's a thought.....why not make 401k's manadatory.....at maybe say 2% of your gross. Most people won't notice it.

I've thought something similar, but it gets into the "putting SSI into the stock market" which scares everybody.
Similar to getting a Social Security card at birth or citizenship you could get your "retirement account" created and as soon as you start working the 5% or 7% (whatever rate) goes directly into that account.  you can leave it in cash and get 1% (still better than Social Security rate) or invest it in approved mutual funds.  The who gets approved is another potential hot bed of argument I'm sure. 
Normal rules apply for withdrawals and age of retirement.  Some provision in place for real disability. 

2016-12-13 9:54 AM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: Social Security
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Rogillio Here's a thought.....why not make 401k's manadatory.....at maybe say 2% of your gross. Most people won't notice it.

I've thought something similar, but it gets into the "putting SSI into the stock market" which scares everybody.
Similar to getting a Social Security card at birth or citizenship you could get your "retirement account" created and as soon as you start working the 5% or 7% (whatever rate) goes directly into that account.  you can leave it in cash and get 1% (still better than Social Security rate) or invest it in approved mutual funds.  The who gets approved is another potential hot bed of argument I'm sure. 
Normal rules apply for withdrawals and age of retirement.  Some provision in place for real disability. 




Who approves the mutual funds? That's another finger pointing opportunity for both sides. ;(
2016-12-13 10:15 AM
in reply to: mdg2003

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Subject: RE: Social Security

Originally posted by mdg2003
Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by Rogillio Here's a thought.....why not make 401k's manadatory.....at maybe say 2% of your gross. Most people won't notice it.

I've thought something similar, but it gets into the "putting SSI into the stock market" which scares everybody.
Similar to getting a Social Security card at birth or citizenship you could get your "retirement account" created and as soon as you start working the 5% or 7% (whatever rate) goes directly into that account.  you can leave it in cash and get 1% (still better than Social Security rate) or invest it in approved mutual funds.  The who gets approved is another potential hot bed of argument I'm sure. 
Normal rules apply for withdrawals and age of retirement.  Some provision in place for real disability. 

Who approves the mutual funds? That's another finger pointing opportunity for both sides. ;(

yep, that's a huge problem and I don't know the answer.  If you open it up to anyone then scammers will come in.  If you tighten it up then only the fat cat connected funds will get in.  

2016-12-13 1:24 PM
in reply to: #5207411

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Expert
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Floriduh
Subject: RE: Social Security
What you guys are missing is that we are paying for our parents right now and our kids will pay for us. If they put money into private accounts then we all better get used to eating Alpo


2016-12-13 1:25 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: Social Security

Originally posted by Oysterboy What you guys are missing is that we are paying for our parents right now and our kids will pay for us. If they put money into private accounts then we all better get used to eating Alpo
\

Yep

2016-12-13 2:24 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Subject: RE: Social Security

Originally posted by Oysterboy What you guys are missing is that we are paying for our parents right now and our kids will pay for us. If they put money into private accounts then we all better get used to eating Alpo

No, it can't be set up like that because it would be an illegal ponzi scheme... Oh wait...

I hear you.  It's definitely a complex issue.

2016-12-13 2:27 PM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Social Security
Originally posted by Oysterboy

What you guys are missing is that we are paying for our parents right now and our kids will pay for us. If they put money into private accounts then we all better get used to eating Alpo


So herein lies the problem. We (society) have come to rely on government to take care of us in our old age. So instead of saving our money and living within our means we say 'carpe diem' and take that trip to Europe and buy that new car. We sell that old, small house and buy a bigger, nicer and more expensive place. We don't need to save....we'll worry about that tomorrow......

Next thing you know you wake up and realize you are too old and frail to work.....next thing you know you are living hand-to-mouth off of SS.

Not all things we learn from our parents are things we should do.....often it's things we should not do.






2016-12-13 2:43 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Social Security

Social Security was never intended to be a retirement system......it was set up as retirement insurance.  If you want to save SS then quit giving benefits to people who don't need it.....it's that simple.  Yes, yes.....I KNOW you paid into it and "it's your money"......no it isn't.  It belongs to the govt. insurance program known as Social Security.  Do you get all of your car insurance premiums back some day?  Wasn't THAT your money too?  How about homeowners insurance.....you never made a claim....isn't THAT your money too?

This is a simple solution......if you have money at retirement that will afford you a yearly income of at least 75% of what you were making the last 5 years of your working life then you don't get any benefits from Social Security.....BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED IT!

There......problem solved, next?

2016-12-13 2:45 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Social Security

Originally posted by Left Brain

Social Security was never intended to be a retirement system......it was set up as retirement insurance.  If you want to save SS then quit giving benefits to people who don't need it.....it's that simple.  Yes, yes.....I KNOW you paid into it and "it's your money"......no it isn't.  It belongs to the govt. insurance program known as Social Security.  Do you get all of your car insurance premiums back some day?  Wasn't THAT your money too?  How about homeowners insurance.....you never made a claim....isn't THAT your money too?

This is a simple solution......if you have money at retirement that will afford you a yearly income of at least 75% of what you were making the last 5 years of your working life then you don't get any benefits from Social Security.....BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED IT!

There......problem solved, next?

Not to mention outright fraud.  I have several relatives who knew which doctors to go to with their "back pain" to get disability for life starting in their 30's and 40's.  



2016-12-13 3:02 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Social Security
Originally posted by Left Brain

Social Security was never intended to be a retirement system......it was set up as retirement insurance.  If you want to save SS then quit giving benefits to people who don't need it.....it's that simple.  Yes, yes.....I KNOW you paid into it and "it's your money"......no it isn't.  It belongs to the govt. insurance program known as Social Security.  Do you get all of your car insurance premiums back some day?  Wasn't THAT your money too?  How about homeowners insurance.....you never made a claim....isn't THAT your money too?

This is a simple solution......if you have money at retirement that will afford you a yearly income of at least 75% of what you were making the last 5 years of your working life then you don't get any benefits from Social Security.....BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED IT!

There......problem solved, next?




Hold on there mister....why do you need 75% of your income to retire? I have been struggling with this for years....and arguing with my wife and my broker. To me, this is like setting the budget like they do in congress - start with what we spent last year, put in COLAs and that is our baseline. How about starting with a clean sheet...

Every retirement calculator I've ever seen for 'how much money do I need to retire' start with 'what is your current income?'

It really should start with 'what do you plan to do after you retire'? Are you going to continue to fly the family first class to Peru and London and Honolulu for big family vacations? Or are you gonna drive the RV to the campgrounds at Yellowstone? Also, are you going work after you retire?

I have all kinds of post-retirement plans I can't wait to try. Drive the Zamboni at the hockey games. Maybe drive a school bus. Get my CDL and try OTR trucking. Teach SCUBA diving. Take a temp job at Yellowstone driving the stagecoach for the tourists.


My plan is to retire when I am 55....if it looks like the money is burning up too fast, I will slow down....or work more hours......travel less.....garden more and put up more vegetables....fish and hunt more to keep the deep freezer full.


2016-12-13 3:27 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Subject: RE: Social Security

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Social Security was never intended to be a retirement system......it was set up as retirement insurance.  If you want to save SS then quit giving benefits to people who don't need it.....it's that simple.  Yes, yes.....I KNOW you paid into it and "it's your money"......no it isn't.  It belongs to the govt. insurance program known as Social Security.  Do you get all of your car insurance premiums back some day?  Wasn't THAT your money too?  How about homeowners insurance.....you never made a claim....isn't THAT your money too?

This is a simple solution......if you have money at retirement that will afford you a yearly income of at least 75% of what you were making the last 5 years of your working life then you don't get any benefits from Social Security.....BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED IT!

There......problem solved, next?

Hold on there mister....why do you need 75% of your income to retire? I have been struggling with this for years....and arguing with my wife and my broker. To me, this is like setting the budget like they do in congress - start with what we spent last year, put in COLAs and that is our baseline. How about starting with a clean sheet... Every retirement calculator I've ever seen for 'how much money do I need to retire' start with 'what is your current income?' It really should start with 'what do you plan to do after you retire'? Are you going to continue to fly the family first class to Peru and London and Honolulu for big family vacations? Or are you gonna drive the RV to the campgrounds at Yellowstone? Also, are you going work after you retire? I have all kinds of post-retirement plans I can't wait to try. Drive the Zamboni at the hockey games. Maybe drive a school bus. Get my CDL and try OTR trucking. Teach SCUBA diving. Take a temp job at Yellowstone driving the stagecoach for the tourists. My plan is to retire when I am 55....if it looks like the money is burning up too fast, I will slow down....or work more hours......travel less.....garden more and put up more vegetables....fish and hunt more to keep the deep freezer full.

I didn't say you needed 75%.....but that seems like a decent number to cut off the benefit.  If you have less than 75% available to you at retirement, but you don't want your insurance money, just send them a letter and tell them you don't need it and they can give it to someone else.  There.....feel better?

2016-12-13 3:42 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Champion
10157
500050001002525
Alabama
Subject: RE: Social Security
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Rogillio
Originally posted by Left Brain

Social Security was never intended to be a retirement system......it was set up as retirement insurance.  If you want to save SS then quit giving benefits to people who don't need it.....it's that simple.  Yes, yes.....I KNOW you paid into it and "it's your money"......no it isn't.  It belongs to the govt. insurance program known as Social Security.  Do you get all of your car insurance premiums back some day?  Wasn't THAT your money too?  How about homeowners insurance.....you never made a claim....isn't THAT your money too?

This is a simple solution......if you have money at retirement that will afford you a yearly income of at least 75% of what you were making the last 5 years of your working life then you don't get any benefits from Social Security.....BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED IT!

There......problem solved, next?

Hold on there mister....why do you need 75% of your income to retire? I have been struggling with this for years....and arguing with my wife and my broker. To me, this is like setting the budget like they do in congress - start with what we spent last year, put in COLAs and that is our baseline. How about starting with a clean sheet... Every retirement calculator I've ever seen for 'how much money do I need to retire' start with 'what is your current income?' It really should start with 'what do you plan to do after you retire'? Are you going to continue to fly the family first class to Peru and London and Honolulu for big family vacations? Or are you gonna drive the RV to the campgrounds at Yellowstone? Also, are you going work after you retire? I have all kinds of post-retirement plans I can't wait to try. Drive the Zamboni at the hockey games. Maybe drive a school bus. Get my CDL and try OTR trucking. Teach SCUBA diving. Take a temp job at Yellowstone driving the stagecoach for the tourists. My plan is to retire when I am 55....if it looks like the money is burning up too fast, I will slow down....or work more hours......travel less.....garden more and put up more vegetables....fish and hunt more to keep the deep freezer full.

I didn't say you needed 75%.....but that seems like a decent number to cut off the benefit.  If you have less than 75% available to you at retirement, but you don't want your insurance money, just send them a letter and tell them you don't need it and they can give it to someone else.  There.....feel better?




No need to get the SSA involved.....just forward your check to me.

No one is going to ever voluntarily give money back to the government! If they do, they are fools. If you don't need the money, give the money to the downtown rescue mission to help feed, clothe and house homeless men, woman and children. Drug addicts and alcoholics and abused woman...mothers with children and no place to go.

Give the money to the government and they will send it to my neighbor who sits out on his deck 24/7 smoking cigars and drinking beer because he is on permanent disability. His wife works and they live in a very nice brick home in a very nice neighborhood......but he needs that SSI money for his T-bone steaks.

I have always thought people live in too much house. The average time people live in a house is 7 years...then most sell the equity and buy a bigger house......for the next 7 or 8 years......they end up with these HUGE houses that they have to heat and cool and maintain.

I spent some time TDY at Kwajalein in the Marshall Islands. I lived in the base housing that they called 'dome homes'. They were fiberglass dome like houses about the size of a mobile home. They had 3 br and 2 baths, a LR and kitchen and small dinning room. These things are hurricane proof! I thought these would make cheap government housing.

2016-12-13 3:52 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Social Security
So here is a completely off topic post......but does not deserve it's own thread.

After the hurricane ripped thru Haiti several years ago and the US was spending billions to build housing......I though of this idea.

Send down empty shipping containers! Have a guy with a blow torch cut a few holes for window....and give them out. Figure out how to anchor the container and you have a permeant house for a Haitian family. And if you looked at what they were living in before hurricane blew it away you'd see a storage container is a HUGE improvement.

$1,200 per house.

1 billion dollars buys them 833,000 houses.

Ok, actually I was thinking about getting a contract with the gov to supply houses......

The base model is just the can. Add in a toilet, shower, kitchen and couple of interior walls......$2,000. And you could house 6 people.
2016-12-13 3:59 PM
in reply to: Rogillio

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Chicago, Illinois
Subject: RE: Social Security
Originally posted by Rogillio

So here is a completely off topic post......but does not deserve it's own thread.

After the hurricane ripped thru Haiti several years ago and the US was spending billions to build housing......I though of this idea.

Send down empty shipping containers! Have a guy with a blow torch cut a few holes for window....and give them out. Figure out how to anchor the container and you have a permeant house for a Haitian family. And if you looked at what they were living in before hurricane blew it away you'd see a storage container is a HUGE improvement.

$1,200 per house.

1 billion dollars buys them 833,000 houses.

Ok, actually I was thinking about getting a contract with the gov to supply houses......

The base model is just the can. Add in a toilet, shower, kitchen and couple of interior walls......$2,000. And you could house 6 people.



also solution for the 500,000 homeless in America?


2016-12-13 5:28 PM
in reply to: chirunner134

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Subject: RE: Social Security

Originally posted by chirunner134
Originally posted by Rogillio So here is a completely off topic post......but does not deserve it's own thread. After the hurricane ripped thru Haiti several years ago and the US was spending billions to build housing......I though of this idea. Send down empty shipping containers! Have a guy with a blow torch cut a few holes for window....and give them out. Figure out how to anchor the container and you have a permeant house for a Haitian family. And if you looked at what they were living in before hurricane blew it away you'd see a storage container is a HUGE improvement. $1,200 per house. 1 billion dollars buys them 833,000 houses. Ok, actually I was thinking about getting a contract with the gov to supply houses...... The base model is just the can. Add in a toilet, shower, kitchen and couple of interior walls......$2,000. And you could house 6 people.
also solution for the 500,000 homeless in America?

we can make our own favella!

2016-12-13 6:23 PM
in reply to: 0

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Expert
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Floriduh
Subject: RE: Social Security
Originally posted by Rogillio
So instead of saving our money and living within our means we say 'carpe diem' and take that trip to Europe and buy that new car. We sell that old, small house and buy a bigger, nicer and more expensive place. We don't need to save....we'll worry about that tomorrow......


Sounds like you kinda like Alpo. I'll skip that dinner invitation no matter how nice your shipping container is...

Edited by Oysterboy 2016-12-13 6:31 PM
2016-12-14 9:13 AM
in reply to: Oysterboy

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Champion
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Alabama
Subject: RE: Social Security
Originally posted by Oysterboy

Originally posted by Rogillio
So instead of saving our money and living within our means we say 'carpe diem' and take that trip to Europe and buy that new car. We sell that old, small house and buy a bigger, nicer and more expensive place. We don't need to save....we'll worry about that tomorrow......


Sounds like you kinda like Alpo. I'll skip that dinner invitation no matter how nice your shipping container is...


I don't think Mom is eating Alpo.....she prefers Kibbles and Bits.

Like Ezekiel Emanuel, I hope to die at 75.

Quite controversial article.....but this is the Political Joe.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2014/10/why-i-hope-to-d...


I'm interested in hearing you triathletes opine.....

2016-12-14 11:35 AM
in reply to: chirunner134

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Subject: RE: Social Security
Originally posted by chirunner134

Originally posted by Rogillio

So here is a completely off topic post......but does not deserve it's own thread.

After the hurricane ripped thru Haiti several years ago and the US was spending billions to build housing......I though of this idea.

Send down empty shipping containers! Have a guy with a blow torch cut a few holes for window....and give them out. Figure out how to anchor the container and you have a permeant house for a Haitian family. And if you looked at what they were living in before hurricane blew it away you'd see a storage container is a HUGE improvement.

$1,200 per house.

1 billion dollars buys them 833,000 houses.

Ok, actually I was thinking about getting a contract with the gov to supply houses......

The base model is just the can. Add in a toilet, shower, kitchen and couple of interior walls......$2,000. And you could house 6 people.



also solution for the 500,000 homeless in America?

I can state with 100% certainty that there are 500K entry level job openings in this country right now. They can go to work and rent their own housing for the most part. Please don't anyone bother posting the excuse that they need an address or contact phone to get hired. I rarely go by a busy intersection that has beggars on each corner that I don't see at least one of those folks looking at a text or talking on the phone. There are a lot of them that simply aren't capable of functioning at any level in society. If we really want to help that segment, we need to institutionalize and start treating their various ailments, MH issues and addictions.

I'd much rather see my government squander my SS contributions helping the truly helpless and not buying steaks n' beer for Mike's useless neighbor. Or my useless cousin who has been scamming the system since the day he learned to scam the system from my useless uncle. It's time for useless people to be held accountable for their own welfare and time for us to help the ones that really need help. Both sides of the aisle have been clamoring about for years and not doing a thing to correct this problem. Maybe we can send them all south to build a wall or something...
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