Impeachment
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() What ever happened to the wire taping story? Trump was universally ridiculed for claiming he'd been 'bugged'. Based on the information that has come out in recent months I'd say that was more much likely true than untrue. My guess is they do have audio recordings of Trump, Flynn, Manafort, et al phone calls during the election. But if there is anything incriminating on the tapes, one would think it would be very simple to indict people. My thought has always been they will never pin anything on Trump. Even if he did collude with the Russians, from what I've read by legal scholars and despite what the MSM wants us to believe, collusion is not a crime. Obstruction of justice might be a crime but seem to me the bar is pretty high to prove obstruction.....especially given the president's constitutional authority over the DOJ. Even if Trump were impeached, it is very unlikely he would be removed. Clinton was impeached after he committed the felony of perjury....yet he was not removed from office. As long as the GOP holds Congress, he will not be impeached or removed. Perhaps Mueller is dragging out the investigation until the mid-terms where the democrats might win back Congress? If the dems take Congress and impeach Trump based on Mueller's finding, it would still take all the dems and several republicans vote to remove. With the FBI and the Mueller team tainted with anti-Trump lawyers and the potential witnesses being Manafort, Flynn and Popadopolis (a proven liar) it would very hard to make a case....IMO. It also seems to me that the more they dig and the more that comes out, democrats/Hillary/Obama/Comey have as much or more reason to fear than the Trump team does. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() he tapped ma wirez! |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by dmiller5 he tapped ma wirez! Hey, he only has a 3rd grade level vocabulary. :-) I'm sure he was told the FBI had audio of him and/or his associates and do made the declaration he was wire taped. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Rogillio Originally posted by dmiller5 Hey, he only has a 3rd grade level vocabulary. :-) I'm sure he was told the FBI had audio of him and/or his associates and do made the declaration he was wire taped. he tapped ma wirez! Stuff is just starting to get real. It's been a year and the first half of the year was cleaning out all the corrupt Obama administration dorks. The investigations are moving along nicely, but of course you won't hear anything about it through regular outlets. We now know that the DNC and Hillary's campaign paid Fusion GPS to create the fake Trump dossier through foreign intelligence sources (which was illegal) |
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Buttercup ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() 1) Hey, Rogilio, suppose the FBI wiretaps a meth distributor. Suppose that meth distributor is also your mechanic. You call your mechanic/meth distributor and ask when your parts are supposed to arrive. You've attracted the FBI's attention. Can you then accurately accuse the FBI of wiretapping you? Or, is the FBI naturally going to hear conversations with anyone/everyone who calls the mechanic/meth dealer? The truth will out. We'll eventually learn which suspected criminal or foreign adversary or spy the FBI was wiretapping who was also having a conversation with people in the Trump campaign or organization. 2) Re colluding - Trump keeps saying "colluding" because there is no crime called colluding and it helps to obfuscate the actual issue. The accurate charge might be conspiring against the US. That is what is being investigated - did the Trump campaign conspire with the Russians against the US? We shall see. 3) Re impeachment - a.It is far too early to know if Trump committed impeachable offense(s). We shall see after charges are made, or indictments handed down, and prosecutions are completed. I have faith the truth will out. We don't yet know who else is going to be indicted and for what crimes - money laundering, conspiring against US, obstruction of justice? We shall see. b. Let's say Trump is indicted. Next is prosecution. Will he be found guilty? We shall see. c. Will he be impeached if he is indicted and/or found guilty of crime(s)? I hope the answer does not depend on which party holds the House majority. How can any president continue to preside if he's found guilty of obstruction of justice? Seems impossible that the House - no matter the majority - would tolerate his continued presidency but these are strange times. We shall see.
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Renee 1) Hey, Rogilio, suppose the FBI wiretaps a meth distributor. Suppose that meth distributor is also your mechanic. You call your mechanic/meth distributor and ask when your parts are supposed to arrive. You've attracted the FBI's attention. You likely know it's quite a bit more complicated than that. Having sat on dozens of DEA and FBI wiretaps I can tell you that you have to stop listening/recording as soon as you realize a conversation is outside the scope of your investigation. Yeah, you can hear things that may spin another investigation before you can definitively say you shouldn't be listening, but then you have another set of problems as you try to gather evidence for a "new" investigation.....the legal challenges make it nearly impossible, lacking corroborating evidence/information. There will be nothing forthcoming on this investigation that will cause the President to be indicted, or even impeached.... that's easily revealed when you look at the arrests that have been made. There was nothing there so they arrested a few people on charges related to lying in other interviews, which had nothing to do with the current investigation. They did that because they were absolutely stuck and are taking a stab at "flipping" them for information in exchange for possible damaging information. It's basically a fishing expedition at this point. You might hate Trump, but he's not getting indicted or impeached on this deal. Bet it. In fact, my money says this whole thing blows up in Mueller and the Dem's (Clinton campaign and/or Obama administration) faces. Use your head here, who's more likely to have done something untoward or illegal to try and influence the election? Trump, who is as politically savvy as a sledgehammer on a ham sandwich, or the Clinton machine? Watch and see.
Edited by Left Brain 2018-01-12 12:19 AM |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I agree, impeachment is not going to happen unless Trump lies in a formal deposition (this is what got Clinton) and this is why his lawyers are dragging their feet on him meeting with Mueller's guys. Without that, I am quite sure that he will have plausible deniability on anything linking Russia to his campaign. Money laundering, that is another issue... I think the dems pushing on the impeachment route would have little political payback, much like it did for the repubs when they impeached Clinton. Their time is much better spent honing their own message, pulling independents into the tent, and identifying those that will lead the party forward. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Funny that people accuse Trump of obfuscation, distraction, deflections...and in the same breath say 'the truth will come out'. So what is the point of the obfuscation, distraction and deflections? It's not going to change the facts and is not going to confuse or distract Mueller and his army of lawyers. What if the 'truth' turns out to be that Obama/Hillary colluded with the Russians and Trump is exonerated? Just posing the question as a 'what-if'. What if Hillary and/or DNC officials are indicted for conspiracy? What if Hillary's private email server was actually hacked by someone and they have all the emails and are able to show corruption, quid pro quo, collusion, etc? What if the missing 30k 'missing' emails show up and it becomes clear that the emails were deleted as "personal" even while they had been subpoenaed turns out to show State Department/Clinton Foundation pay-to-play? At any rate, it's a fascinating and likely historical time in politics. Not sure we will ever know the full extent of the corruption as much of it will likely be hidden under the guise of national security. On the question of should Trump submit to Mueller questioning, I think we've discussed that before and most concluded it is never good to talk to persecutors under oath. That is the reason we have the 5th Amendment to the Constitution. Clinton committed perjury for his lying about ML. He was trying to protect his reputation and his work and it there was nothing criminal about boinking your employees but he still perjured himself. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Rogillio On the question of should Trump submit to Mueller questioning, I think we've discussed that before and most concluded it is never good to talk to persecutors under oath. That is the reason we have the 5th Amendment to the Constitution. Clinton committed perjury for his lying about ML. He was trying to protect his reputation and his work and it there was nothing criminal about boinking your employees but he still perjured himself. Exactly, Clinton still f**ked up and he was a lawyer and far sharper than Trump. The chances on Trump saying a provable falsehood are very high, and he can't take the 5th because he will look guilty. I think he will just run the clock out on this one, just like he has with his tax returns. I have said before, I think we need to take a deep breath and let Muller do his job, we really don't know what he has and doesn't have. |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by Renee 1) Hey, Rogilio, suppose the FBI wiretaps a meth distributor. Suppose that meth distributor is also your mechanic. You call your mechanic/meth distributor and ask when your parts are supposed to arrive. You've attracted the FBI's attention. Can you then accurately accuse the FBI of wiretapping you? Or, is the FBI naturally going to hear conversations with anyone/everyone who calls the mechanic/meth dealer? The truth will out. We'll eventually learn which suspected criminal or foreign adversary or spy the FBI was wiretapping who was also having a conversation with people in the Trump campaign or organization. 2) Re colluding - Trump keeps saying "colluding" because there is no crime called colluding and it helps to obfuscate the actual issue. The accurate charge might be conspiring against the US. That is what is being investigated - did the Trump campaign conspire with the Russians against the US? We shall see. 3) Re impeachment - a.It is far too early to know if Trump committed impeachable offense(s). We shall see after charges are made, or indictments handed down, and prosecutions are completed. I have faith the truth will out. We don't yet know who else is going to be indicted and for what crimes - money laundering, conspiring against US, obstruction of justice? We shall see. b. Let's say Trump is indicted. Next is prosecution. Will he be found guilty? We shall see. c. Will he be impeached if he is indicted and/or found guilty of crime(s)? I hope the answer does not depend on which party holds the House majority. How can any president continue to preside if he's found guilty of obstruction of justice? Seems impossible that the House - no matter the majority - would tolerate his continued presidency but these are strange times. We shall see.
So far the collusion seems to be with Obama and Hillary. The DNC and FBI illegally hired an opposition firm (fusion GPS) by funneling money through an attorney. The opposition firm illegally hired a foreign intelligence source who provided a made up dossier on Trump. They then sent that dossier to the FBI and used it as the justification for gaining wire taps through the secretive FISA process on the Trump campaign. (not on foreign entities) They then wire tapped the Trump campaign and illegally unmasked people and illegally leaked the contents of those taps to the media. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Originally posted by tuwood Originally posted by Renee 1) Hey, Rogilio, suppose the FBI wiretaps a meth distributor. Suppose that meth distributor is also your mechanic. You call your mechanic/meth distributor and ask when your parts are supposed to arrive. You've attracted the FBI's attention. Can you then accurately accuse the FBI of wiretapping you? Or, is the FBI naturally going to hear conversations with anyone/everyone who calls the mechanic/meth dealer? The truth will out. We'll eventually learn which suspected criminal or foreign adversary or spy the FBI was wiretapping who was also having a conversation with people in the Trump campaign or organization. 2) Re colluding - Trump keeps saying "colluding" because there is no crime called colluding and it helps to obfuscate the actual issue. The accurate charge might be conspiring against the US. That is what is being investigated - did the Trump campaign conspire with the Russians against the US? We shall see. 3) Re impeachment - a.It is far too early to know if Trump committed impeachable offense(s). We shall see after charges are made, or indictments handed down, and prosecutions are completed. I have faith the truth will out. We don't yet know who else is going to be indicted and for what crimes - money laundering, conspiring against US, obstruction of justice? We shall see. b. Let's say Trump is indicted. Next is prosecution. Will he be found guilty? We shall see. c. Will he be impeached if he is indicted and/or found guilty of crime(s)? I hope the answer does not depend on which party holds the House majority. How can any president continue to preside if he's found guilty of obstruction of justice? Seems impossible that the House - no matter the majority - would tolerate his continued presidency but these are strange times. We shall see.
So far the collusion seems to be with Obama and Hillary. The DNC and FBI illegally hired an opposition firm (fusion GPS) by funneling money through an attorney. The opposition firm illegally hired a foreign intelligence source who provided a made up dossier on Trump. They then sent that dossier to the FBI and used it as the justification for gaining wire taps through the secretive FISA process on the Trump campaign. (not on foreign entities) They then wire tapped the Trump campaign and illegally unmasked people and illegally leaked the contents of those taps to the media. I saw a democrat congressman say the other day, ".....we have seen the doss-e-er....". I kinda cringed for him. |
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