GrooveTime!group - CLOSED!!! (Page 10)

Planning on doing my 5K route tomorrow AM, if it's not storming.  Nothing on Christmas Day itself.  Have a 10 mile run planned on Saturday with my running group, but may wait til Sunday when my running partner will be available, if she's up for 10.  My mother is paying my dues for US Masters Swimmers as one of my Christmas presents, so may need to get in the pool at some point over the weekend and make sure I still know how to swim.

Good morning, llamas and jellyfish!

As soon as Lynn leaves for work, I'm settling in here for a concerted effort at making serious inroads in getting caught up on unanswered posts. At some point late morning I need to head into Ottawa to finish xmas shopping, and I'll be there until the evening as I have to collect the "kids" who are flying in on separate flights. There will hopefully be a run in there, in lieu of planned swim and lift sessions, as I think all City of Ottawa pools and gyms are closed today. Rats.

But that leads me to my next post........

Working out on Christmas Day, eh? Hmmmm. Tough call!

My kids (Jane - 25; Peter - 23) will certainly understand if I do a run, but for Lynn, these all-too-rare events with all four of us together are kind of sacrosanct, so it is in the best interests of marital harmony to cool my jets tomorrow and just lay low, workout-wise.

That's one of the great timing aspects of Christmas/Chanukah/Kwanza, as it/they fall(s) almost exactly in the middle of the triathlon off-season, so it is relatively easy to pass on training on any given day -- of which tomorrow features prominently!

LISA L -

Enjoy the 5k today, which entitles you to an extra helping of food tomorrow. Bonus!

And that's a nice gift from your mother! Great minds must think alike, because I am toying with scrambling today to register Lynn in sailing lessons next June. US Masters Swimming....Nepean Sailing Sailing Club....they're kind of alike, maybe? (Require memberships, if nothing else?)

Anyhow, terrific mom you've got there!

MARK --

That is an outstanding summary fo the Total Immersion approach; Terr Laughlin himself could hardly have said it better!

I will echo the importance of having a DVD to actually see the drils performed correctly. The illustrations in the really early T.I. books were useful, and the photos in "Triathlon Swimming Made Easy" are helpful -- but nothing like seeing the fluidity of an accomplished swimmer working through those drills!

A related book, that is also highly inspirational, is "overachiever's diary" (yes, lower-case), with the subtitle "how the army triathlon team became world contenders" (also lower-case). It is by Louis Tharp, who is a T.I. person hiredby West Point to coach their tri team. It fdollows the progress of the team through the course of the year, but the emphasis is clearly on swimming. There are numous boxes with tips and workouts, and what I enjoy most about it is that Tharp thinks outside the box quite frequently, and comes up with thoughts on swimming that are very original.

The book was published in 2007, but I haven't seen it in too mnay places. the publisher is T.I. itself, so it should be on their website; I will maybe look for it later.

Thanks again, Mark, but the incisive summary of T.I.!

Follow-up to the above:

The website www.overachieversdiary.com is still active, and still interesting. There's a sample chapter there, a discussion of Total Immersion, and even an assesssment form to determine is you have what it takes to be a cadet at West Point!

Related to this (albeit slightly...) is that I just lesrned last night that the West Point Triathlon is going to be USAT-snactiond for next year, its 21st! Yay! I have been hoping that would happen, as I have wanted to do this race for years -- but I only do USAT-sanctioned races when I race in the U.S. (which is most of the time).

It's a sprint, and the main draw for me is to have all of the volunteers being incredibly polite and respectful young men and women. Well, okay, the course is supposed to be very fine, and the race runs like clockwork (no surprise there). Just so you know!

TRACEY -

Okay, you've now had about 12 hours to try and figure out what in the world I was talking about with Popeye and spinach and swim-breathing. Any thoughts?

Well, one way to get maximum air is by forming "maximum mouth", and one way to do that without turning your head dramatically is to make the side of your mouth resemble Popeye's when he is pouring the contents of an entire can of spinach down his gullet. So, just practice that in front of a mirror, the pose with your breathing side jutting downwards and out, forcing the corner of your mouth to gape open in a most unattractive - but swim-useful! - way.

Did you read Arthur's comment the other day about one goggle in, one goggle out? That really is a desirable goal, but of course it is impossible when the head roll/lift is so exaggerated. But with the Popeye mouth, which in effect is "reaching" for more of a pocket of air, it is quite possible to breathe effectively with only one goggle out of the water.

It will feel weird when you first try it, but after a while you'll get so that it is second-nature, and you can contort your mouth that way without feeling like you're risking dislocating your jaw!

ARTHUR -

Lest I be mistaken, you are the only one of the whole mob of us here who comes from a swim background. You lucky dog, you! I'd like a nickle for every time I've bemoaned the fact that I never had the opportunity (or the inclination at the time) to swim competitively as a kid.

Your swim comments the other day were outstanding -- keep them coming! I just referred to the one-goggle-out idea in a post to Tracey, and I can say to you that one of the first indicators I have that my form is falling apart is when I start getting so that the "bottom" goggle is appearing more and more above the surface of the water. In fact, that ghappened during yesterday's swim, so at that point I just switched things up and went with a different maneuver.

And as for making "one-goggle-out" work on my left side, my less-preferred breathing side, I cannot do it. Well, I CAN do it,, but for only one or two stroke cycles, and then both goggles emerge. So it goes......

Thanks also for the comments about keeping the arm stroke safe. I impinged my shoulder a few years ago, and it kept me from swimming for about 10 weeks; maybe longer. That was much worse than when I separated the right shoulder in a crash in June, and even though the separation was a bad one, I was only off from freestyle for five weeks. But the impingement ws pretty awful, and I sure don't want to go there again!

ARTHUR again -

I definitely recommend getting a trainer for your bike! Many people find it extremely stultifying to ride a trainer indoors, but with a good fan in front of you and a decent video on a TV next to the fan, you should be fine.

I have a fluid trainer, which is pretty quiet and works really well. It is a Kurt Kinetic. But there are loads of trainers out there, and you can find something in your price range pretty easily, I'm sure.

If you're feeling brave, you can also try rollers. Rollers are a hoot, and work really well for bike-handling skills, and encourage a steady, even pedal stroke. If you live in a place with a fairly narrow corridor or hallway, then that is ideal for rollers as if you start to tip you can just stick out an arm and brace yourself against the wall. (The alterntive to this is to use them outside on grass so that when you fall you have a nice, soft place to land. )

Really, though, a trainer is the best first-purchase for an indoor cycling aid. Happy trails!

STEVE A -

Yup, much less pressure on IM transitions! Well, at least in terms of speed at them there is less pressure. The pressure, however, comes from making absolute 100% certain that you have everything you need for the next leg. This isn't too hard for most people at T1, but in T2 the brain and body both are beginning to get a bit fried, so decision-making isn't always at its sharpest. But in facing a 112-mile bike, or a 26.2-mile run, it is far better to "walk yourself" through T1 and T2 then to rush things and leave something critical (sunglasses, gels, whatever) behind.

While on this topic, I'll say the following now about your St. George T2. As much as your body might be telling you to sit down and rest for a while, unless you have an injury or sopemthing similar it is best to keep moving and try to avoid suiitting down and resting. That is all your body might well want to do, but once you sit down and get comfy it will eball that much harder to get up and start moving again. Plus, sitting down will only encourage cramping once you get up and begin your run. So, move through T2 methodically and even maybe kind of slowly, and if youy must st down, make it short and sweet.

For me, I can get off the bike and go outr really fast on the bike in a psrint, and sometimes and oly, but beyond that I try to be very measuresd for the first 1/2 mile or so. At the HIM or IM distances I work really ahrd at keeping my stride length very short to begin with, and alos try to establish a cadence of 90 right from the start; this reinforces the shorter stride length. Even if I feel I WANT to move faster, i deliberately slow my pace just to minimize the risk of blowing up.

And did I mention to you the other day the idea of varying my cadence and position in the final mile of the bike? That is, alternating fast spins with out-of-saddle grinds? This helps me get in touch wth my running legs much more quickly, which allows me to pick up my pace as soon as possible after I get settled into the run.

STEVE A again -

Yes, that makes sense to not go into the long ride on the PCH cold. I was going to say that Neil from my other group frequently rides the PCH......but then it dawned on me that on any given day there are likely several hundred of you out there. Lucky buggers!

CATHY -

Ha! In 2007 we definitely did share space at Smiths Falls and 1000 Islands (along with the previously-decided Canadian Half) as your races here were the same as mine. Small world!

As for Graham Beasley, in '07 I did the 1/2iron duathlon, which I did not enjoy. The bike was fine, but I disliked the 4X trhough that tedious run course. Plus, i remember that as a muggy day, and although my time for the race was good, i did not enjoy myself a whole lot.

I would love Graham Beasley (esp. the half-iron) to "work" for me, but it doesn't. In its earlier days the run was course was more extended, so there was less repitition at the longer distances. As for the swim, on years when the current is strong I don't enjoy swimming against it. Humbug! Grewat bike course, however!

That is a massively big schedule you are facing (no rest for the wicked, eh?)! Is that 12-hour shift on the 31st bound to be chaotic with all sorts of people who have partied unjudiciously? I don't even you that one at all......

Hang in there, though, and make the best of all of the family time!

GANG!

Having just rattled off 10 posts, I now find I have pretty much run out of time. ARGGGHHHH! (Note: I am a two-fingered typist, and need to make eye-contact with the keyboard. So, typing take me a while, even though I have become fairly proficient at this relatively ineffective way of typing! )

Thinking about the group, we have a lot of folks in each of the following three categories:
(1) those who have lots of questions and concerns about swimming
(2) those who are concerned about the bike they have -- or the bike they don't yet have
(3) those who have a history of disliking/hating running

(And that's not to mention the ones of you who umbreall everyting into the "newbie" category.)

But be of good cheer, gang, as none of these are deal-breakers!

I am working on a post for people who consider themselves beginning swimmers, but an awful lot of issues are being covered in posts as they are coming up. I'm think particualrly of the many cokments about Toatal Immersion (T.I.), as well as Arthur's more specific information on breathing and shoulder safety.

But there are still questions about where to begin, and those questions cover various possiblities: T.I.; books; videos; one-on-one lessons; group/Masters sessions; straight laps; infinite combinations of any of the preceding. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, but in a soon-to-happen post I will mention the pros and cons of all of these approaches. (Of course, ultimately what will work best for any of you will be determined by time and logistics, as well as probably money.) I hope to get this posted within a day or two! Stay tuned?

STEVE:

I had given up on figuring out the Popeye reference... but it makes total sense now! It reminds me of some of the swimmers I see at the Y whose mouths look a bit contorted when they come out for each breath. (I do a lot of observing of other swimmers!)

And I did see Arthur's comment about one goggle in the water... I saw a drill on the swimsmooth web site where you get some fins on, and glide through the water kicking with one arm straight out and one by your hip (Superman position). In this position, you create a little wave in front of your head and practice breathing in the "pocket". I'm going to try this, and try keeping one goggle in and see how that goes. I'm determined to get this breathing down!

I have so many tips and tricks to try (pull buoy, breathing tricks) but haven't been able to do anything because of this sinus infection/congestion! I suppose I still could but want to be feeling good - it's so much more tempting to give up the session when you're feeling crummy to begin with.

Thanks and happy holidays!

DEE -

With regards to your post from the previous page......can you just sort of "tread water" for a while longer? I might've helped some with the previous post, but I really do owe you something more specific -- or at least the larger post I mention above.

Are you using ear plugs now? An inner ear problem can be debilitatiing, but there are all sorts of decent ear plugs available. I think a lot of "serious" swimmers use Macks. Many (5? 6?) years ago I bought a set of them, but the remain unopened - but always available - right in my box of Critical Gear that travels in my car to all my races!

And it is good to hear that you became relaxed in the water! It is quite easy for people to drill endlessly, as happened to you, so I would say that as soon as you start getting in the water again you should emphasize actual swimming. That doesn't mean to eliminate the drills, but rather to start working on taking all of those pieces and putting them together to make a whole swimmer!

Some people advocate beginning every swim session with a few drills, and others say that one session a week (assuming that there are 2-4 other sessions) should be devoted to drills, period. For me, I take the "low road", which is drilling sporadically, usually a once or twice in any given swim. My regulars are finger-drags and closed-fists....and that's about it nowadays. I have to admit, though, that all of the dicussions here have my reconsidering my errant ways, and that maybe I should be a bit more diligent about doing drills.

I REALLY have to disappear now, but rmeind me to say some things about using your swimmer's snorkel. (It's all good stuff, so don't worry about any negatives!)

Finally< i exhale using both nose and mouth; mostly mouth, I guess. A few days ago I wrote a longish post to Tracey (thallo672) in which I mentiooned a couple of things that might help with developing an effective exhale, and that might be worth looking at. I will try to find it later.

Okay! I'm outta here!!

How I would love to do this tri!

http://www.escapetobermudatriathlon.com/Home_290.htm

Maybe 2011....

right on.  My wife, Maggie, asked me last night as I was staring at the course map for May:  "Um, if you're going to race next year (2011), why not race somewhere cool?  I mean, St. George?  Really?"

Following Steve's reference of Lou Tharp and the West Point Triathlon team, I remembered I had found this TI-based training plan last year. I found it on the web, but didn't keep the link. Mark

Typical Swim Workouts for Army Triathlon Training Cycles
By Lou Tharp

Foundation Cycle:
Aug. thru Nov. Skill development: 75%. Endurance: 20%. Pacing: 5%.
• Swim Focus 50’s – 50 yards of a specific drill done while swimming at a low heart rate. Stroke count is monitored. Splits are not.
• Hand lead drills: Focus on high hips, head position, hand anchored at 45-degrees, and a gentle kick. These are usually interspersed with swimming drills because cadets get bored doing them.
• Tracking drills: Scribing a single line in the water with your hand – whether it is above the water or below it. This focuses on not crossing over, not using the S-curve stroke, and avoiding a horizontal recovery.
• Fist swimming: We love this one. It forces a high elbow before taking a stroke and allows the forearm to catch water. Stroke count must remain the same – with and without fist swimming. Speed will decline with fist swimming, but streamline should not.
• No kick: Notice we didn't say pull set. We do not believe in pull sets. It sets up the wrong stimulus and encourages the use of the wrong muscles. No kick means you don't kick, but you do use your hips, abs and lats. A pull set means your lower body is along for the ride and the emphasis is on upper body for power generation. Power generation is focused on core body. Upper body is the power delivery system.
• Two-second anchor: Focus on hand anchor at 45-degrees for two seconds. This allows swimmers to set up for the power phase of the stroke, to synch hip rotation with body movement over the shoulder. We don't pull. The body moves past the elbow and shoulder, the wrist and hand stay stationary. This visualization is critical to efficient swimming.
• Quiet swimming: No splashing, going through the water as quietly as possible.
• In between these focus 50s, we swim 100s and 200s so the benefit of the drill is imprinted.
• I look for details. Technique is either right or sloppy. Sloppy means hitting a plateau in mid season when there's not time to go back and fix technique. During this period we will swim 3,000-4,000 yards in a two hour practice. There will be 15 minutes of on-deck core body strengthening and dryland drill review. We will flirt with speed during this period – always during the middle of the practice – in order to let the swimmers experience the breakdown of high-technique swimming and what to do when that happens.

Building Performance (BP) Cycle:
Dec. thru Feb. Skill development: 30%. Endurance: 40%. Pacing: 30%.
• We never give up on focus 50s. They become the warm-up and the cool-down. They are adjusted to address stroke issues that come up as the practice splits get faster. We will still do between 3,000 and 4,000 yards during a two-hour workout, with dryland strength and drills as well as classroom.
• Focus during this period is on ladders. We want the swimmers to appreciate the opportunity to reach a distance limit and experience control. We will do sets such as a 200, 400, 600, 800, 600, 400, 200. In between we will do 50 and 100 focus swims to reinforce high skill technique. Pacing plays a greater role during this period. Splits need to be within 2 seconds for the entire workout. Stroke count within 2 strokes. We believe the only way to get faster is to be consistently faster. It doesn't help to be fast and then slow. Distance swimming is won by the person who slows down least.?

Peak Performance (PP) Cycle:
March and April. Skill development: 20%. Endurance: 30%. Pacing: 50%.
• Focus 50s and 100s are still used for warm-up and cool-down. At this point the variation in splits among the team will be greatest so distances are customized, allowing everyone to start sets together. It's important that we have a chance to discuss the set as a team, and that everyone is able to push themselves to their own new performance levels. The higher technique swimmers may begin to push the 5000-yard mark, although this is not an objective. We do not swim yards to swim yards. But, when we have people who can consistently sustain 1:08 hundreds, it is important to challenge them from a speed and efficiency standpoint. Distance can play a role here, but its role has to be monitored closely. If pacing is not respected, distance is useless. We often use Tempo Trainers set to beep at the flip turn in order to provide instant goal reinforcement when swimmers are trying to shave one-half to one second off each 25.??
• Physical and psychological health is critical through all phases of training. We cannot tolerate anger, frustration or lack of focus. The cadet triathlon team is voluntary, therefore it must be challenging, interesting and enjoyable.

Lou Tharp, the swim coach for the West Point triathlon team, is also a Total Immersion coach and author of Overachiever's Diary, a Total Immersion book that chronicles the training regimen of the cadet tri team. In 2008 the team finished third in the nation at the Collegiate Nationals.


Edited by TriD64 2009-12-24 2:14 PM

My wife is a nurse and, since we celebrate on Xmas eve, she typically works Xmas day. Since the kids have all their new toys/gadgets to play with, this usually allows me the opportunity to workout on Xmas. I was hoping to XC ski, which is what I typically do. Unfortunately, we are in this midst of the winter storm passing through the Midwest and as I type it is raining like it's June! I doubt the snow will be in any condition for skiing, but the rain is supposed to turn to snow overnight, so maybe. I also have my fingers crossed that Santa is brining me a bike trainer this year. If so, I'll be testing it out tomorrow.

Happy Holidays everyone. Mark

Merry 25th, gang! It's now officially the 25th here on the eastish coast, and coming soon to you folks in Iowa, Nebraska, Minnesota, Texas, Alberta, California, and British Columbia. Be patient, eh?

And all of you, be ready to claim all tri-related gifts here at COMPUTER CUSTOMS! That's right, every tri-related gift must be duly reported right here, for the envy and edification of all of us. No cyber-smuggling allowed!!

MARK -

Mega-thanks on ferreting out - and posting - the Tharp/Army details. There is a pile of great info in your posted excerpt alone. In the first section alone, the "Foundation Cycle", what he says under "No kick" and "Two-second anchor" are examples of him thinking outside the box. While these are consistent with T.I., they go beyond the typical T.I. protocol. Everything you posted in brimming with stuff to some about and work on. Merci!

And based on this alone, you are obviously a very, very good boy, so I am sure you received a trainer amongst other goodies.

----------------- MEMO -----------------

From: The Commonwealth of GrooveTime!, Office of Computer Customs
Subject: Oral Declaration of All Triathlon-Related Gifts

It is imperative that all recipients of any triathlon-related gifts make an oral declaration of all pertinent merchandise. There will be no duries or tariffs attached to any of these; this process is merely for the edification and vicarious excitement of all our citizenry, and is in keeping with our founding principles of Support, Inspiration, and Encouragement.

GANG!

Nothing tri-related for me to claim at Customs, so I am an inspiration to no one.

Well, I did receive a number of gourmet chocolate creations.....which I have eaten quite a number of already.....but seeing as how they contain antioxidants which fight those noxious free radicals.....then it is good for my training.....so I guess the chocolate confections are tri-related!




no?

Edited by midlifeinsanity 2010-05-23 7:27 PM