Peter Sagan....it was just a pinch (Page 10)

Yes, IF she was offended and the touch was unwanted then it's a second deg assault/ 4th deg so.

If not, then it's not a crime.

See. Now this I can work with. I wouldn't call it a bias, but I would call it a self interest. We don't want to be blamed. We want to be taken as who we are ... not lumped into the group that we become when we don't challenge the behavior, exhibited by the least of our peers, that reinforces the generalizations that we're all pigs (scum, heathens, clueless, etc.).

Then, when we jump to the collective "it's not that big of a deal", "it's just a pinch", "maybe she likes it", we affiliate ourselves with the bro club that creates those generalizations in the first place. 

So it is impossible to tell from the picture, even making a reasonable assumption that it was was unwanted.

ok but it works both ways. so you filter the responses and reactions of people. take me for instance, i'm a 23 year old man, recently in college where that is extremely commonplace. that is my bias. trianna has been attacked before, that is her bias. and i never said "maybe she likes it" or whatever words you want to put in my mouth.  HOWEVER the question "is it really a big deal?" seems to me to be a reasonable one. and I don't think it is a big deal, at all. He did something stupid, and apologized.

You do realize that you may have just called in an airstrike on your own position by "those who will be offended", right?

You do realize that you may have just called in an airstrike on your own position by "those who will be offended", right?

The problem is this statement right there.  Why is that acceptable to you?

Yes but they are still targeting most of their drones on you so he is still pretty safe.

ok but it works both ways. so you filter the responses and reactions of people. take me for instance, i'm a 23 year old man, recently in college where that is extremely commonplace. that is my bias. trianna has been attacked before, that is her bias. and i never said "maybe she likes it" or whatever words you want to put in my mouth.  HOWEVER the question "is it really a big deal?" seems to me to be a reasonable one. and I don't think it is a big deal, at all. He did something stupid, and apologized.

I happen to have a lot of experience working with this population of men who are shocked when they realize that it truly is a big deal.

Regardless of how common place it is, when it gets (appropriately) defined as assault (or, eventually, rape), your small deal is going to intersect the reality of how conduct codes and the law define it.

In this case you're biased by seeing the behavior at any house party you attend on a Thursday, Friday, Saturday night. The judge in the Steubenville case, in his comments, made a statement to the effect of "this (rape) is happening across the country every night". The "this" is clueless men not calling what they see what it is. When that happens, our collective bias of minimizing the matter results in tragic consequences for both the accused and the victim/survivor. 

because it happens all the time. guys grab girls butts, girls grab guys butts. why is it so evil? what makes this so horrendously unacceptable? now obviously the situation etc. clearly does have significant bearing on whether or not a behavior is acceptable. but what i am getting from this thread is that grabbing someone's but should get you arrested and thrown in jail, and i find that ridiculous.

i've already been flamed by the drones at least 5 times, you kinda get used to it!

Arrested and thrown in jail no, you will be fired from your job if you do it at work though. 

So you find it acceptable fro a stranger to walk up to you and grab your butt?

grabbing a butt is not equivalent to rape, and girls do it too my friend. over the top rhetoric doesnt equal correctness either.

I happen to have a lot of experience working with this population of men who are shocked when they realize that it truly is a big deal.

Regardless of how common place it is, when it gets (appropriately) defined as assault (or, eventually, rape), your small deal is going to intersect the reality of how conduct codes and the law define it.

In this case you're biased by seeing the behavior at any house party you attend on a Thursday, Friday, Saturday night. The judge in the Steubenville case, in his comments, made a statement to the effect of "this (rape) is happening across the country every night". The "this" is clueless men not calling what they see what it is. When that happens, our collective bias of minimizing the matter results in tragic consequences for both the accused and the victim/survivor. 

grabbing a butt is not equivalent to rape, and girls do it too my friend. over the top rhetoric doesnt equal correctness either.

I do not know anyone here who has said it is equivalent to rape.  I believe he was referencing another case where the lack of a clear boundaries helped lead to escalating issues.

Bernard.....here's a secret.  That's BULLCHIT!  I don't believe for a single minute that they don't know it's wrong.  And to say they are shocked is crazy.  They may want you to believe they were shocked, that may be what the defense attorney tells them to say, but that is an absolute load of crap most of the time.  The high school football players who recently "didn't know it was rape".....for crying out loud, who believes that?  Certainly, a jury didn't, and good for them.

My crew actually investigates rapes and sexual offenses, among other Part 1 crimes. I hear the same load of garbage that you are saying you hear.....but unlike you, I don't believe a word of it.

Sagan knows he was out of line, that's why he apologized...which may be all that is warranted in this case unless the girl wants more. 

Still, you cannot paint with the brush you want to paint with......you'll lose the part of the audience that is already on your side.  Look what you did with this Sagan case......and you don't know anything about it.

There is a disconnect between the relationship of underestimating that number and not understand what rape is.

No I don't, I would probably be pretty annoyed if I were the girl Sagan grabbed. However about 5 minutes later i would never think of it again and be over it. I don't think it is right, I just don't think its a freaking international incident! (although it probably technically is!)

and when it happens to you again and again and again and again because to the "group" that is doing it, it is just not that a big deal and you should just get over it?