Funked Up Triathletes (Sprint, Olympic Focus) Group - Closed Until Next Season (Page 11)

Dominion and Jesse (and anyone else interested)....

TrainerRoad is the software that Jon and I are using for our trainer rides. It's normally $10/mo. That's a very good deal for everything you get with it. They are having a special if you sign up to pay annually instead of monthly it's $89/yr. You have to sign up by Friday.

I think they are doing this because many people use TR for their winter program but give it up durng the warmer months. I understand that. For me, I use the trainer year round so it's a good deal and I think my workouts are more efficient..

Anyway, if you plan to use the trainer much at all in the next year, I think this is a great deal.

http://blog.trainerroad.com/revamped-website-yearly-pricing-career-...

If you still don't know/understand what TrainerRoad is all about, you may get some ideas if you check out my career page. This shows my workouts and maybe can give you an idea of how it works.

http://www.trainerroad.com/career/dprocket

David,

Actually I planned on signing up for Trainer Road for over the winter, but I'm unsure on whether I will continue in the summer so I don't have plans to do the year special like I saw your thread for. Have to get a cycling computer, cadence meter and find a dedicated laptop for it.... Do you know if they work with linux based operating systems? Had to nuke my personal laptop a while back and don't have Windows on it anymore. Then again I have 4 other laptops in my possession currently and churn through them with my business so I'm sure I could probably steal one from myself.



As only partially relevant question. What do you guys think a power meter than did all the calculations virtually that worked outside would be worth? Or more rather, if you could go down to the bike shop today to buy a power meter that worked like trainer road, but outside what would you be willing to pay for it?

Jesse, TR is Mac or Windows only. No Linux. I have a buddy who has a Garmin GSC 10 Speed+Cadence sensor he is wanting to unload if you're interested.

Regarding your second question...are you asking
a) what's a power meter worth?

or

b) what's a "similar product to Trainer Road but mobile" product worth?

I think I'd be talking about a)... Not even sure what the b option would be. I'm essentially saying what would you pay for a computer you strap on your bike, like any other cycling computer, that would do watts as well without the $1500 price tag of other power meters with dedicated parts.

Also what kind of condition is the cadence meter in and how much is he looking to get for it?


Edited by funkj25 2013-09-17 6:46 PM

If you could invent a power meter that was somehow a strap on computer, with no other dedicated components, I would buy it. I would question how such a thing would work. I would think it would be worth $400-500 or so. One problem people have with Power meters is that hub based meters limit wheel options, and crank based meters are expensive. Garmin just released their pedal based power meter that seems to be getting good reviews but it's very expensive too. So, a "strap on" power meter would be valuable but I'd question how accurate it would be.

On the cadence sensor: I got it for my nephew when he was getting into triathlon and strapped it to his bike in May. He has ridden his bike this summer about 1000 miles and has never utilized it or even knows what it does. He bought an old school bike "computer" for his stem and no longer needs the cadence sensor. I bet he'd let it go for $20.

I'd do $20 for that particular sensor you'd just have to let me know when/where to pick it up. You can PM all that kind of info of course.


Regarding the power meter its actually on my list of possible projects to pursue depending on how my pancake/waffle validation test goes. I'm set to provide breakfast for a local 5k in November so I'll get a good sense of whether the pancake project is really worth continuing pursuing or dropping. If pursuing is the option then good I'm already set if not then I'm going to spend the next year training triathlon and grinding my current business to build up extra capital to pursue a new project, possibly the power meter if I can validate it. Target price point is $399 just off the top of my head as my goal so I was curious what you'd say.

Accuracy will be lower on a strap on solution over the crank solutions or other part based power meters. But the trade-off is you'd pay $400 for it instead of $1500 so I'd say there's probably a reasonable amount of +/- error you can work with as long as its internally reliable. It's a pretty simple concept really, just a matter of seeing how much it costs to get the parts put together (just about as easy to find out as a few e-mails if you know where to look). Newton's 3rd law of motion: every force has an equal and opposing force. Instead of measuring drive train you have to measure everything else. Wind speed, cadence, gravity, etc and that goes into a formulation. There's actually currently one model out on the market now that already does this I found in my research. It's available for $500.

No real grit in the idea yet from my side, just a curiosity at this point on a multitudinous list of problems I could solve.

Back to triathlon... I'll be setting up my own personal training plan for this coming year in the next few days so I'll have that to share with everyone, or at least the framework as it changes throughout the year.

Jesse...you being an entrepreneurial type of guy...I suspected you may be thinking along those lines. I just wasn't sure exactly by the way you were asking.

I like your style Jesse. Just curious as to what your current business is.
Good luck with the pancake breakfast and I'll be looking forward to the training plan. I've been putting some thought into my own lately but haven't put anything down on paper yet.

My current business is what I'd consider a "hustle" i.e. hours = money. This is how pretty much the entire working world works and frankly I don't like it. I've got better things to do with my time like train so I'm trying to eventually build a business where money = units sold and its not strictly based on my time put into the system.

Currently I buy/sell/refurbish video games and consoles as well as laptops and other electronics. Starting to get into a little more technical stuff like fixing broken ps3's, but I work on anything from the original NES through PS3 and their controllers/games. Software fixes only on laptops currently, not too hep on hardware fixes as they can eat your lunch quickly. I'll not post my eBay store up here, but anyone is of course welcome to know what it is just send me a PM. I don't mind talking about what I do, but signal/noise ratio here trying to at least stay somewhat on topic.

The whole point of the electronics business currently is to enable me more flexible training hours while keeping the bills paid and hopefully building up capital to operate a new business. Pro triathletes rely on sponsorship dollars to be able to train full time once they get to a high enough level. I'd like to skip a few steps in the development of that and negate sponsors hold over me by becoming a potential sponsor instead of relying on other companies to support me.

If you get to know me well enough, if it isn't already apparent, I'm a do it yourself kind of guy. If I can get it done I'll get it done. Eventually have to transition this away so I have more hours, but its all a process and doesn't happen overnight.



Anyway hopefully will sit down for that training schedule tomorrow. Getting it down on paper is a huge step to being prepared even if it changes. I had some stuff come up for today that's put me away from getting it done, but tomorrow as I foresee should be the day to finally sit down with Friel's Training Bible and get my outline done for next year then I'll share some of that with you guys and the thinking behind what I did.

Chris and Jesse's discussion got me thinking...and since we're in the "off season" just curious...

Besides triathlon what other interests do you guys have?

Besides my (rather young but large) family, I closely follow combat sports, college sports (Kansas State University primarily), theology and coach youth soccer. I'm sure there's more, but besides work and triathlon this is where much of my "fun" and interests lie.

By combat sports do you mean MMA? I used to follow UFC pretty closely. I vividly remember watching the first UFC on PPV back in the early 90's! I kept up with it until a couple years ago. My biggest hobby for years before triathlon was boxing. I was actually going to have a real fight in 2011 (just a local exhibition bout) but got hurt pretty badly sparring with a pro fighter the month beforehand and ended up with a detached retina and eye surgery and doc said no more boxing for me. Other than that, I like to watch NFL (Patriots mostly), hike/backpack/camp and XC ski. I'm hoping to use XC skiing as a good cross-training exercise during triathlon off-season, assuming we get some snow up in Rhode Island this year!

Last tri of the season tomorrow. It's a sprint but a longer one- 1/2 mile swim, 16 mile bike, 5k

Trying to get motivated for it but a little down mentally. I just find it hard to care whether I finish 178th out of 350 or
187th. MOP blues! :-) I think I'm disappointed in myself for not really improving much. I know it's my first
season, but this is my 6th sprint over 3 months and my speed hasn't really budged. Maybe 10-15 sec/mile faster
running, maybe 1.0-1.5 mph faster bike, same swimming. Looking at the silver lining, at least my T1/T2s are faster.

Then next weekend I have a 1/2 marathon that I'm not ready for. Longest run was 10 miles on Sunday and it was sloooow.
Part of me wants to really push myself on it and wring out every last second I have in me but the other part of me doesn't
care because I know I haven't trained enough to do anywhere near whatever my potential is.

Sorry to whine! John

By combat sports do you mean MMA? I used to follow UFC pretty closely. I vividly remember watching the first UFC on PPV back in the early 90's! I kept up with it until a couple years ago. My biggest hobby for years before triathlon was boxing. I was actually going to have a real fight in 2011 (just a local exhibition bout) but got hurt pretty badly sparring with a pro fighter the month beforehand and ended up with a detached retina and eye surgery and doc said no more boxing for me. Other than that, I like to watch NFL (Patriots mostly), hike/backpack/camp and XC ski. I'm hoping to use XC skiing as a good cross-training exercise during triathlon off-season, assuming we get some snow up in Rhode Island this year!

1-1.5 mph faster on the bike is pretty solid improvement. I wouldn't beat myself up about it. The run will come with time. The swim, I'm still try to figure out myself. Sometimes when my runs are slower, I have to realize that I am often in a constant state of fatigue while training. A few days of full rest and my run times usually improve dramatically.

Hey John, I know exactly how you feel because I too sit firmly in the middle of the pack. One thing that helps me is to continue to remind myself that I'm racing against myself. You already noted that you've seen pretty significant improvements in all aspects. Like you...the run improvements are coming soon enough. But I know that is my biggest weakness and where I need to focus my efforts. I hate runniing, but I'm forcing myself into a couple of running events this fall/winter to help put more miles under my belt.

I say go out there tomorrow and let it rip. It's your last race of the season and your last event for a while to have so much fun.

Another consideration is to consider your schedule in the future. I was competing in OLY distance events, but I realized that I schedule a few races too close together so feel that some of my trainining season was basically just maintaining fitness. I wasn't seeing much improvement.

thanks for the support! I'm getting my head straight and trying to focus on the actual fun of racing tomorrow. I really enjoy doing it and pushing myself hard and there's really no point in comparing myself to younger and faster (or even older and faster!) people. I'll focus on giving it 100% so I won't be dwelling on a suck effort from now till April!

You hit the nail on the head regarding schedule. I just counted and at the end of next week I'll have entered 13 races (running and tris) in 5 months, so I'm the same in terms of some/much of my time was spent either getting ready to race or recovering from racing. I didn't differentiate races either, i.e. no A vs B vs C races, I just took them all equally seriously and raced them all 100% (maybe a couple were 90%). Next season I'm doing two 70.3's as my "A" races, one in June and one in September and anything else I do will be secondary to them and I won't let other races interfere with my scheduled A race training.

thanks! I'm done with my pity-party, it was short-lived In terms of rest, I've taken two full days off from any training to get ready for tomorrow, my legs feel springy- which is a feeling I haven't had in a long time, so who knows? Maybe I'll PR my average paces tomorrow?

John, If you're going 10-15sec/mile faster on the run you're talking a minute to 1.5 minutes on a 10k. That's not insignificant over a 3 month period. Coupled with 1.0-1.5mph on the bike means your maximum gains if you were running solely is probably higher. With triathlon when you focus on three sports your development in each one is much slower than it would be if you were focusing solely on something so in no way should you be bummed about that.

I say for tomorrow (assuming you see this in time). Go out and have a good time. That's why we do this right? If winning was the only thing that made sport fun, you'd have a lot of pissed off people and frankly that's just ridiculous. Enjoy yourself, drop it hard on a leg you think you want to test how hard you can go without blowing up. I'd say try something new tomorrow you've been wondering about. I used Hyvee to test how hard I could go on the bike. I felt like I was going to die with the pain I was in for part of the bike and I found out my limit. It's always a testing period so enjoy it.


Although I don't have the whole year worked out, I do have my first 4 months of training planned out currently. The swim is a bit of a unknown factor since my swim training will be in the hands of my new coach, but I trust him to develop me there and keep in mind my other training. Take a look at it in my google docs account. Please please please don't alter the cells, ha. It will change the data universally.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ao_CbzBBClhUdDdleEYzRjV...

Questions I'm sure to come. Let me know what you think about how I've set up my own base progression here. You can see my demarcation for the following segments of the year leading up to next year's nationals as well.

Jesse,
A few questions.

Why do you not include any rest days? Maybe you're younger and fitter...but I feel that I need 1 day off (sometimes if I've been pushing or have late nights with kids I will have an unexpected 2nd day).

Can you define "base" and "build"? Actually, you don't need to define them (I've read enough Friel to understand the words) but actually articulate how you use them terms of the entire training process as it relates to "off season", race prep, etc. If this question does not make sense, just let me know.

Also, on your plan you have listed pretty much every time "long run". What does this mean as far pace goes? I've read alot about the "long slow run" and "running lots, mostly slow, sometimes fast". I've tried to incorporate some of these principles so I'm wondering if you do this too. Obviously the Fartleks you're doing are times when you're increasing your pace.

I don't include any rest days because of the level of competition I'm at. There's a point when you have to add in the 6th and 7th days of working out simply for competitiveness. So instead of a day off entirely you'll be doing mostly active recovery. During base period, which is where you're building your bulk miles typically, active recovery isn't as obvious since its a lot of long slow miles. Because of the level of fitness I'm at and the history I have in running I already include speedwork via the fartleks to keep my turnover high and that top end power from lagging. Strength, or maximum power, however you'd like to phrase it is a weak point of my running so its important for me to focus on that in the off-season. The swim will have speedwork, form work, etc. but I don't have to concern myself with that since I won't be writing those workouts. The bike doesn't yet have any speedwork during the base build because I simply need to increase frequency and mileage. Last season I was biking 2 days, a 2 hour and a 2.5-3 hour day. So this season the plan is to increase to 4 days of bike and then be able to accomplish more FTP related workouts during build period.

So Base in my terminology is typically a bulking up period in time/mileage whatever you want to call it. Build is where you begin to grease the wheels with speedwork, but its not necessarily race specific yet. So you might do some smaller sprint sets, or smaller tempo sets (this depends on your weaknesses) and build those up towards the build 2/race prep season where your race specific goal sets are going to come in.

A race specific run workout for me during build 2/race prep might be 10 x 1000m on the track. The first 5-8 are going to be pretty comfortable 10k pace. The last 2-5 (depending on how I feel I can do) will start negative splitting until I'm running the last interval which I'll "green light" and let it rip as fast as I can go. It's my goal year round to negative split any speedwork I do, but in my opinion its particularly crucial during race prep, but we can get into the nitty gritty of that in a few months. As a side note on negative splits, the general rule is to not bobble around with times. I.e. go 3:10 on a 1000m interval and then slog in at 3:30 on the next, that's all pacing.


Concerning long runs, like I've discussed previously its a feel thing for me, but my long run pace is going to be 6:45-6:30 min/mile on any given day. This is a pace I feel about comfortable enough to have a conversation at, but maybe not quite if I'm doing the 6:30 side. The fartleks are structured so that I'll run at my long run pace or slightly slower for 20 minutes, then go into the set and finish by cooling down the remainder of my mileage at that long run pace again. Sometimes cool downs are 20 minutes, sometimes they're 12-15 just depending on how fast I hit intervals. I do it this way so I don't "punish" myself with extra mileage when I knocked out a set, but I also make sure I get in the mileage if I was slow somehow.

If you have no idea how to set up various paces for yourself or whereabouts you should be regarding training times (this isn't super useful for base, but part of the equation) I highly recommend checking out the Jack Daniel's Running Formula table. It approximates VO2 max and cross references training and racing times from a ton of runners to come up with the figures that are there. Generally a pretty reliable piece of 2d equipment. You need an open run/race time to figure it out, but if you don't have one use your best 10k on the end of a triathlon, find that VO2 max and then add 2. That's typically what I estimate for a conversion to triathlon times.

Here's a link to it on a High School website I always google for
http://www.moorestownxc.org/Training/JackDaniels.html

Maybe one of these days I"ll buy his book.

Jesse-

thanks for the advice. I will do that- i.e. experiment and do one leg as hard as I can. Have about an hour to decide whether that will be on the swim or bike...I've never really pushed myself on the swim and this one is a 1/2 mile instead of a 1/4 mile, so more time to gain if I was faster. maybe I will try to start at my normal pace and keep increasing my pace until I'm maxed out and then hold that pace and see if I can knock off some time. I will focus on turnover speed of my stroke and see what happens.

regarding your training plan you posted- curious what you do for tubing and what are your thoughts on the benefits of it?

thanks-
John

Well I'm not allowed (I don't believe) to share specifically what the tubing workout stuff is since its Collegiate Recruitment Program material and not mine to give out. But I'll say its a series of specific exercises designed to target particular swimming muscle groups and motions. It's also used for injury prevention. I know personally when I started getting lazy towards the end of the season and not doing my tubing, no matter how tired I was (which shouldn't be an excuse since it was only 15-20 minutes) I had more susceptibility to my left shoulder hurting. The tubing helps go through motions to strengthen that shoulder area to prevent some of that.

Additionally it can be used as your swim warmup before a race if 1. You aren't allowed in the water to warm up or 2. the water is too cold to warm up then get out and wait around. So if only from that standpoint I think it's beneficial. But I thought it really helped increased my overall power this last year when I was doing it consistently. Big key is proper form when using the tubing for whatever particular exercise you are doing. It made my stroke a little wonky because I was doing some of the exercises wrong, despite my time savings, that I now am correcting for an easier more efficient swim stroke.

In general I'd agree with body weight/resistance type exercises for most endurance athletes since you're working on that power/weight ratio and not wanting to bulk up. I'm happy to make suggestions for leg activities regarding this since its things I did before I was in the CRP so I don't feel obligated if there's crossover not to share those things.


Let us know how it goes John. I'm hoping you decide to hit the swim hard this morning. You're probably getting ready to be in the water right now if you aren't already out. Since you said it was your leg without improvement it'd just be interesting to see what you could do and hold onto for the rest of the race as a last out this season.

Jesse,

Thanks for sharing your spreadsheet. That will help me organize my own plans for next year.

One question, where or how did you come up with the "equivalent run miles" formula. I see how you are calculating it but how did you come up with the formula, for instance 1 mile swim = 4 miles running?

John - I hope things went well this morning! Looking forward to reading your report!

If anyone is interested, here's my race report from my race in DC 2 weeks ago. It took me a awhile to finally get around to it. This has more pictures and commentary since I am sending this out to many people who donated to the LLS on my behalf.

http://workoutblogger.com/?p=2518

Regarding tubing, I'll share what I know. I've purchased several resources from Sheila Taormina including her book (Swim Speed Secrets), a workout set (Swim Speed Workouts) and attended one of her clinics. She is a big believer in using tubing to help build strength and technique.

This video gives an overview and also shows how she does it. In this video she is doing a fly type motion, but you can also alternate your catch in a more free style motion. http://swimspeedsecrets.com/2013/05/09/swim-speed-workouts-halo-swi...

If I can remember, maybe I'll post a tubing workout that she published.

Jesse got tired through the season and stopped doing tubing. I was just lazy and never did it at all. This is one of those things that I think is a great idea and intended to do, but never got around to it. Since I'm planning to stop swimming altogether for a month or so, I do intend to actually start doing this. 10-15 minutes on "swim days" is generally all that's Rx'd.

Here's a link to her site where she sells the HALO tubing set. There are many types of resistance bands that work,but these are nice because the handles wrap nicely around your hands. I have some tradition types with normal handles and they are a bit tougher to use because I have to try to hold my hand open over the handle when the natural reaction is to grip it with my fist.

Jesse, thanks for the link to the Jack Daniels tables. I've heard of this and even recently added this book to my Amazon wish list. This will be very useful as I figure out where I should be pacing wise as (being a newbie on running) I have no "feel" for it right now.

quick race summary from this morning-

Swim- warmed up and stayed in the water as long as they allowed, water was COLD. Feet were numb cold. Started off slower and picked up pace as planned. Really pushed myself hard with arm turnover. Had big problems sighting for 1/2 the race because swimming directly into the sun and I just couldn't see where I was going at all and just tried to stay in the pack as best as I could, definitely zig zagged a lot which was frustrating. Time was 16:xx (no results online yet) for 1/2 mile swim, so I'm pretty happy with that, I think I would have been 14-15 min had I been able to see where I was going- might look into mirrored/polarized goggles. I knew I swam hard because my shoulders were utterly wasted when I got out. I was DIZZY coming out of the cold water. Didn't wear ear plugs and paid for it in T1.

T1- Was ready to go but I was seriously dizzy and was worried about getting on bike feeling that way, so I stood there ready to go for 45-50 seconds until dizziness passed a little bit. Frustrating, but it was a good decision. I think I might have pedaled right off the road had I not waited, so probably a time saver overall

Bike- was VERY hilly! 16.1 miles. Lots of rollers but some 1/4 mile climbs. I did pretty well on bike. Got up to 37 mph on a few downhills, never coasting, always pedaling. Not much else to say, really tried hard, did the best I could.

T2- no issues, pretty fast.

Run- Also hilly, but not as bad as the bike. Kept pushing myself. Don't know my run time exactly because I had watch going from the start of swim, meant to reset it for run. I was happy because I really pushed the last 1/2 mile just saying to myself "This is the last 1/2 mile of triathlon until next year, go as hard as you can!" and I did 8:05 pace on the last 1/2 mile, which is pretty fast for me at the end of a tri.

So it was a good race, 100% effort, really couldn't have gone any faster. The only time lost was due to the dizziness post-swim, so should have worn ear plugs. Still ended up dead MOP as usual, but I feel good about it because it was less of a beginner's tri and more popular with experienced racers, it was the first tri I've done where it seemed I was one of the few people not riding an expensive tri bike.

Anyhow, I'm satisfied with the race and at least I won't be beating myself up all winter for not giving it my best shot!

Edited by johnmoran 2013-09-21 11:12 AM