MJEWEN Summer 2013 Mentor Group - OPEN (Page 11)

My brother and I are planning on camping out near the course on Saturday night, I've never been but apparently there is a campground in the same area as the lake.

Crissy, Denise: I don't know the area very well, so I'm not sure where to suggest we meet at, but looking forward to meeting you both for a picture.

Crissy, I do swim at the Cooper Y around 6am, MWF. Is that where you swim too? Sort of funny that I never recognized you if so, but everybody looks the same with a swimming cap to me. Hopefully it wasn't you that I irritated the other day. I had left a lane briefly to use the rest room. When I returned, there was a lady using the lane... since my stuff was all at the end of the lane I decided to get back in on the side I had been using and then the lady seemed like she might be upset and moved to another lane. My hand gestures from the far side of the pool may not have been understood correctly

I did a short (2 mile) run after a bike ride yesterday... second Sunday in a row to do it, just trying to get used to running off the bike should I successfully exit the water this coming Sunday. Anyways, does anyone else feel like they are running super-slow off the bike but in actuality you are running much faster than they should? My GPS shows a pace about 2 min/mile faster than what I subjectively feel like it is based on how fast I'm moving. Based on effort level, its probably about what I expect as far as the pace matching the GPS. I'm normally pretty good at knowing what speed I'm running so being that far off is weird to me and it sort of freaked me out to feel like I was really having to exert myself to run so slow until I realized I was running too fast. I think its because of the relative speed to biking, so just curious if its a common thing with running after the bike.

No, wasn't me at the pool, but I am there when you swim. I also swim on M,W,or F at Cooper, but with my male friend. I always have a bag of training aids with me. I always wear a dark blue suit and usually a white master's swim cap. We usually swim from 5:50 - 6:30, with a lot of gabbing. My friend is a talker. I had thought last time I swam that perhaps that was you at the pool (didn't think it would likely be you), but it's hard to tell with such small profile photos. I'll have to say hi when I see you next time at the pool.

I just mentioned 2 weeks ago about running off the bike. Same experience as you was running much faster than I thought I was. I can see where a Garmin with a speed alert could be very handy.

I also am not familiar with the Papillion area (or any area other than Lincoln).

Ken that is how I feel off the bike as well. I've learned through doing bricks how to not go faster than race pace for the first half mile. After about a half mile my legs get back to normal.

Ahh... I think I know who you are now! Both you and your friend are very good swimmers... relative to me at least

There is at least one other triathlete that swims at Cooper frequently. He is training for the Omaha Tri, olympic distance. He does really long swim sets that I can only dream of doing someday

Well, I'm off to get my swim workout for the day in... I hit snooze this morning and decided to swim after work instead of before.

Well, if biking makes you run faster, then I know the perfect warm up for my next road race

Ken any more improvement on the swimming front?

I did a good ows tonight. I swam 600M (guestimating) in 12:18. I'm happy with that time. Was calm water, very nice to swim in. I wore my sleeveless wetsuit. I really like the security feeling of wearing it. I think I will wear it during the race.

First 200M was 4:18. Second 200M 4:43 - swam a bit off course when I tried same side breathing with no sighting. Also I started swimming really sloppy that second 200M. Last 200M 3:27!! I really concentrated on form and making sure I was streamlined in the water. It felt so much smoother. I had no idea how much faster it made me. Now if I can do that and draft during Sunday's race I will be one happy little triathlete.

Going to try another OWS tomorrow evening with my swim buddy and my husband.

Ken, if you want to join us and get a feel for swimming with others and learning how to draft please join us. We'll be at Wagon Train Lake swim area at 7pm. I really like drafting. Makes swimming so much easier!! I've just never tried it in a race environment, only in the clear pool waters. :-)

Thanks for letting me join! I am starting to feel more confident about the Oly coming up on Aug 4. I think the swim is going to be the largest challenge. I found a way to get out into open water this weekend and practiced sighting only every 8 breaths....really seemed to help! I was sighting every other breath or so and it made it challenging to try and find my rhythm when I was swinging my head up so often. I still find that I get out of breath much more easily in OW, but hopefully I will find time to get out into a local quarry before my race to get some more practice.

I actually DO have a heart rate monitor. Is there a target heart rate I should aim for during the race to ensure I don't burn out before the run?

One major question I have is: do reverse bricks (run/bike rather than bike/run) offer the same training advantage as regular bricks? I know they won't help with that weird feeling in your legs for the first mile or so after the bike (I swore I was running SOOOOOOOO slowly for my first race- but I wasn't too far off my target pace after all!), but in terms of building endurance, etc....is it equally helpful to do reverse bricks? The heat and humidity around here make it unpleasant to run long distances as the day heats up, so on Saturdays I do my long runs at 7am and then follow with a bike ride. This weekend it was 8 miles followed by 18.

Another question, as I am new to the cycling world: Do the same principles of training apply to cycling as they do to running? For example, I know that in running, most of your runs should be easy runs- HR Zone 1 or 2, with one speed session and one long run, and maybe a tempo or fartlek run thrown in there somewhere. Does the same apply to cycling? I ask because I have a hard time finding cycling buddies who ride at the same pace as I am- it seems folks are either crazy fast (18+ average) or super slow (13mph or less). Since I don't want to be left behind, I end up riding with slower folks mostly, which keeps my HR in zone 1 or 2 with maybe a few peaks into zone 3 on the many hills we have here in my county. But I worry that I am not really benefitting from these rides. Should I just be riding by myself? Its lonely to go on 2 hour rides by myself, so I like having company.

Thanks again for your help!

Hey Crissy,

I'll see if I can make it out to Wagon Train, thanks for inviting me! It really depends on how my work day goes on whether I'll be able to leave that "early" (sigh).

Regarding swimming: I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm gonna be slow on Sunday and that victory will be safely emerging from the water. Last night I practiced back floating and back stroking as well as transitions to/from that to freestyle. It sounds like it would be kind of depressing, but committing to that strategy and mindset for the swim really was a load off my shoulders and I'm alot more excited about the experience now.

Chrissy - Sounds like you had a great ows!

April - You can push a lot harder on a bike then running without having to worry about injuries. If I was you I would try and ride with the group that is faster and just hang with them as long as you can. If you get dropped you can finish the ride at your own pace. On keeping your HR at a certain level during a race is a very individual thing. You need to get your HR zones set and then through trial and error figure out where your target zone is for racing. For example for me if I was doing a sprint I wouldn't even worry about HR zone I would just go hard. I've never done an Olympic but I would guess I would be looking to keep my HR between high Z2 and Z3. I'm currently training for a 70.3 and my target zone for cycling is Z2 which is between 140-152 for me.

Ken - I saw in your logs you did a 500m swim in the pool the other day! Congrats! You are going to go do awesome with the swim.

I went out this morning and did a 2000yard OWS in very rough water. It was just big white caps the entire time. The waves were so big about half the time when I was sighting I would have to stop and look because I couldn't see over the waves. Several times when sighting a wave would pick me up and slam me down it felt like doing a belly flop in the pool. Even though it was very rough this morning I felt like it was great experience just in case I see similar conditions during my 70.3 this fall.

April,

I'm not an expert (first year here), but my training plan lists very similar target HR zones as for biking as for running - only for longer durations. So I might do a 1 hour ride mostly in Z2, then do 5x4 min in Z4 sometime during that 1 hour ride. HR on the bike is usually lower than your HR on the run. I think my Max HR on the bike runs about 10 bpm lower than it does when I am running. My max HR is just over 200. I'm always surprised by how varied our heart rates all are.

There is a good article on here but don't have time to look it up. Just read it yesterday I think. It mentioned that most of your training should be in Z2 and some in Z4. Z1 is basically recovery or a short warm up/cool down. Z3 offers little for improvement, and Z5 is just too much.

Thank you for the input Emil! I need to get out there and establish my zones...I have been playing with the pre-set ones in my watch and I feel like they are too low...I have to run sooooo slooooow in order to keep my hr in zone 2! Seems like most of my "normal" workouts have me in Zone 4 despite not feeling like I am working very hard. So, I think it is clear that they are not accurate. I read Joe Friel's bit on Lactate Threshold and how to establish my own LT, but I just haven't found the time to add in yet ANOTHER 30 minute workout on top of the crazy ridiculous plan I am already following.

Where on earth were you swimming that there were white caps? That sounds like sea-sickness territory to me. I would lose my mind if I had to swim in that...though I am sure you will feel like superman in any normal conditions from now on!

I will take a look and see if I can find the article. Thanks for the input! It does seem wild how different each person's HR is. I train occassionally with a guy who is not in great shape...but his HR is consistently under mind though he is working harder than I am at a given pace. Drives me nuts, honestly

What training plan are you using? And how did you establish your max HR?

Heart Rates.... my father-in-law has been working out and dieting and has lost an amazing amount of weight, something like 40-50 pounds. I'm very proud of him and happy for him because it really is a positive life change.! Anyways, on a recent visit to the doctor they found out his resting heart rate was 47. That sounds great, however although he's lost a lot of weight the doctors were shocked and ordered an EKG immediately because 47 RHR doesn't match the rest of his current fitness profile at all. For example, he is trying to build up to being able to jog a mile (doing great on that process by the way). They thought he had a blockage or something.... anyways they couldn't find anything wrong and he just has a low resting heart rate. I still find it incredible how low it is. I'm wondering what will happen as he keeps getting into better shape... it might become too low. When I was in peak shape for the marathon earlier this spring, I would have problems with light-headedness when I stood up from resting too abruptly because my heart couldn't "shift gears" fast enough due to the low rate.

Ken - That does sound incredibly low for somebody who is just starting to workout. That is about what my resting HR is and I too get light headed if I stand up to quick. It use to scare me until me doctor told me it was normal for somebody with a low resting HR.

April - A good way to set your HR zones is to race with your HR strap on. I set my HR zones for biking and running by using data from a duathlon. I think a sprint duathlon is perfect to set both but you could also use a 5k for the run. The only thing is it has to be a race you are going to be red lining the entire time. On your question where I swim I swim at a local lake and the part of the lake I swim at is a big point and when the wind blows hard it gets pretty rough around that point.

I got up this morning and did a little over 1 mile swim in the lake and followed it up with a 5 mile run a little later in the day. The run was brutal it was 97 degrees during the run.

Hi Guys,

So, everyone seems to be using heart rate monitors. I have never used one. I use a MOTOACTV to track my workouts. It doesn't have very good battery life and is useless in the water. It has actually been the single most valuable purchase towards my health an fitness. I can listen to music, I get audible cues to start my intervals and it is a GPS, so I get stats on speed distance and a google map of my route. It has the ability too add a heart monitor but I have yet to break down and purchase one.

What do you guys use to track your workouts? GPS? Pedometer? HRM?

Before I got my MOTOACTV I never listened to music. Now I have tunes for every workout.

Do you exercise with or wothout music?

I looked into the MOTOACTV when I was purchasing a workout device. I decided to go with a Gamin FR210. It is a GPS watch that is mostly made for running but can be changed from pace to speed for cycling. I use it with a HR monitor and my logs reflect that device. I also have a cheap cadence/speedo on my bike to use. I use my watch for cycling but rarely look at it unless I am concentrating on heart rate zones. I use the Garmin software to analyze the data post workout. Also use a I pod shuffle. another reason I went with the Garmin is because if I went with the MOTO, it would make my shuffle useless.

Ken, wow, I had no idea there was camping down at Walnut Creek Lake. You are impressive. I don't think I would camp before a race. I don't sleep well enough the way it is the night before a race!

Ken and Chrissy: Do you want to meet after the race? Or before? I know there is a picnic shelter jus to the south and up the hill a bit from the dock and transition area. I think it is where they will have packet pickup on race day morning. Maybe we can meet there? That way we are out of the way, but it is not out of the area and is on the way out of the park. My race number # is 72, at least that's what the email said. I think my husband will be there, so I can make him take our picture! I would prefer we met after, as I don't want to rush anybody and I think the picture will be cool if we all have our medals on! So, maybe meet at like 9:45 or 10:00? Will that be a good time? I am just guessing that would give us all plenty of time based on my last tri time.

I am feeling much better about this ows than my first tri. I have done almost all my swimming in open water since then, as it has just worked out that way with lake availability and schedules. I wish I would have called them and asked to be moved down to the faster heat wave, but oh well. This might work out better for me anyway. I did an ows swim clinic Monday night and it went well. The practice of being around all those people was good. Chrissy we tried practicing drafting off each other, but we never really got very good at it.

some of you were talking about HR monitors and training. I would really like to learn more about that. I use mine, but not really to my advantage. More as just an accessory! I also need to take the time to get my zones figured right. I am not confident that what I have entered is really where my zones are at.

Ken, my dad has low resting HR, too and sometimes I freak nurses and dr's out when I get checked out or go in to donate blood. As I guess mine must be lower than most people's.

Also, I can't recall who was asking about brick training in different order (April?)? I have no idea if that is not good or good, but I did it anyway, depending on what my schedule allowed. I think as long as you do a few bricks where you are getting the same feeling as race day experience, doing them out of order will still prepare you for doing the activities back to back, rather than a day or two apart. For me, it was also learning how to build endurance and hydration/fuel, during those bricks.

My race # is 153. The meeting place and time sounds good to me.

I use a Garmin 910. I got it last year for a birthday present before that I used a Garmin 205 forerunner. The 205 was great for running but I was wanting something a little more versatile. The 910 does it all HR monitor, running, biking, pool & open water swimming. I never listened to music while working out until recently. I bought a water proof ipod for swimming and have started running with it and I'm really liking it.

Edited by EKH 2013-07-10 5:35 PM

Denise - Glad to hear your ows practice has been paying off. Look forward to hearing how you guys do this weekend!

Denise/Ken. My number is 40. I will likely forget your numbers come race day because lack of oxygen causes my brain to malfunction. :-) I will plan to meet at the area you mentioned. I am in the 1st heat. I have no idea how many heats there are or how many people in each heat. Do you guys know? I hope to be done with the race by 9 based on being in the first heat. I don't know if my family will come up or not for the race. I'd prefer they stay home. I stay more focused that way (but wouldn't dare tell them). Super nervous for the race. I don't know about that triple loop we have to do. I'll probably lose count just like in swimming laps and end up doing 4 laps, or 2 laps. Either of you two wearing a wetsuit? I'm pretty sure I will because I swim faster with it on, and I need all the help (and confidence) I can get out there when people are swimming over me. I drafted swimming last night for about 100 yards. If I can pull it off during the swim I'll be happy. Doubt I will with all those bodies out there though. Hy HR just hit 200 thinking about it. Do either of you want to do a casual ride once through the course at packet pick up with me?

HR Monitors & GPS. I have a Garmin 305 w/ HR Monitor. I got it as a Christmas present several years back from my parents. They got my husband one too. It is a sweet watch. I can program in my HR zones or speed zones for my workout (30 minutes Z2, 5 min Z4, 10 min Z2, 5 min Z4....etc) and it will beep at me when I need to speed up/slow down and let me know if my HR has increased or decreased out of the zone. I really like it while on the bike. I don't use the HR programs for running, but do use it to track distance/pace/time. Running is just a beast for me. I can run in Z2 and feel like I'm dying most days. But I can run a race in Z4 and feel not too shabby. I haven't use the HR training for a long time. Decided to use it for my tri training since my program mentions HR zones during bike and run training.

My resting HR is something around 55. At the Dr's office it's in the 60's, but that's not real resting HR, that's "I just sat down" HR. :-)

I listen to music through an app on my phone - Slacker Radio. I set it to the type of music I like to work out to and it plays just that type (Dance Pop if you're wondering).

April - my training program is a beginner tri program that was put out by TriRader. It was in a magazine from 2011. There is one for Sprint and one for Olympic. Figured I better start w/ sprint training due to the swim distances (and my lack of swim ability). After I finish my sprint races this summer I plan to move up to the Olympic distance training - but may stick with sprint distance at races. I like the idea of being done in under 1:30. Wow, such a far cry from my sprinting days when races were done in less than 13 seconds and running for more than 30 seconds sounded like pure torture.

Today on my bike ride my pedal came off. Apparently when I put my new pedals on I failed to fully instal my right pedal - might have gotten interrupted - who knows. 5 miles into my hilly ride, I was standing up in my pedals powering through at the top of the hill, when suddenly nothing was under my right foot. I nearly wrecked. I full body plunged into my handlebars in front of vehicles - because this is best to do with an audience. After yelling something along the lines of "Holy Crap, What the hell?" I gracefully recovered (I'm sure I looked more like a drunk person on a bike and there was no graceful anything involved). I thought I had just come unclipped from the pedal. I tried in vain to get my foot back into the pedal for a few meters. I finally looked down "where the hell is that pedal?". It was on my shoe, and not on the bike! I stopped and tried to get the pedal off my shoe. No luck. So then I tried getting the pedal with the shoe back on the bike. No luck. Apparently I screwed up the threads on the crank arm a little bit with my crappy initial installation. Now I need to get my bike in the shop and see if they can clean up the threads for me. It doesn't look bad, just can't get any pedal to engage. I think I just messed up the first row or two of threads. Sure hope I don't have to buy a whole new crank set! Anyway, I chuckle over the whole thing - because I'm just the type who finds humor in everything. Had to get a ride home.

Chrissy sounds like you demonstrated some nice bike handling skills. That could have ended very badly the way you described it.

By the way I use to be a sprinter too. I always thought anything longer than 100 meters was way to long. Back in the day I would have never dreamed I would someday run a marathon.

Crissy.... On the bright side.....better today than Sunday! Glad you didn't get hurt. Every time I stand up on the pedals I consider how easy my shoes come unclipped and then I sit down pretty quickly.

How do they fasten timing chips to you? I am thinking about changing footwear so that would be out as a means of binding the chip. Do they have a band or something they use?