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2007-05-29 1:28 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
dgillen - 2007-05-28 10:18 PM

PocketRocket - 2007-05-28 3:28 PM David, Thanks for the info on smoothies, not sure we have the stuff you mentioned over here but I will have a look. I have a question that may be a bit dull. I am trying to build the cycling base up by 3/4 sessions a week all in Zone 2 to ensure proper levels of effort. How long should this stage last and how do I progress beyond this? How do you do speed work for cycling? I know how to balance tempo with speed for running but would welcome some ideas on 2 wheels. Thanks...

I'm assuming that your A race for this season is the London Duathlon on 09 Sep 07, right? and it has a 20K bike leg, right? And I'm also assuming that this will be the longest bike leg you have in any race this season, right? If I'm correct, then here's what I'd recommend:

  1. Continue in with your zone 2 training building up to 30K or maybe even 40K. This might take a couple of months. Let's say by the end of July you can ride about 30K reasonably comfortably staying in zone 2, then...
  2. Spend August working on speed and getting faster at that 20K distance. 20K in zone 2 should feel easy at this point, but 20K in zone 3 will be tough. I wouldn't recommend trying to ride 20K in zone 3, but rather try some short (3-5 minutes) intervals where you push the intensity up to zone 3 and 4, and then have rest interval. By all means, feel free to try the workouts that Pene listed, but the basic idea is the same, simple one as running: Go relatively hard and fast for a short amount of time then recover and repeat.
  3. Try to get in one brick (run then bike or bike then run) workout a week. These will typically be the toughest workouts you do, so be sure to be well rested before them and recover well afterwards. However, they do a great job in preparing you for a duathlon. Start by simply running for 10 minutes or so after a ride. Nothing fast, just get used the feeling of running on tired legs. Then we can build up and do some longer and faster bricks as you get closer to your A race date.
Does this make sense? Did I answer your question?


Got all the details spot on David and thanks for the advice. Will now incorporate this into the schedule. Zone 2 is ridiculously slow but will persevere as Pene has done. Only trouble is that I live in an area with many hills and its difficult to keep the ticker done to Z2. I assume this is fine but should get the HR to recover immediately after the climb. Thanks again.....


2007-05-29 8:53 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Yeah! I don't have to take a vacation from SBR!! I rather like my workouts and would really miss them at this point. I had heard from someone that you are training now for 2 weeks in the future. And that person thought that it would then be pointless to do any further training the 14 days prior to a race. I thought that was rather silly, but ya know, I'm not exactly an expert on these things......I do think my training now WILL be largely mental. In other words, the more I get comfortable with a 400 swim, a 17 mile bike and a 5K, and preferably several bricks, the more I'll feel super ready for June 10. At this point, it looks like my time will be about 2.5 hours. If I beat that, I'll be happy. Probably seems ridiculously slow to all you super people, but that's just plain where my conditioning is at. Fortunately, there will probably be some Oly distance ironpeople that finish their distance in about that, so I won't LOOK like I'm the last one....... I'll just PRETEND I did the oly distance!!

Anyway, thanks again, El Capitano Supremo, for being patient with my silly questions and mentoring me. You just have no idea how helpful you've been so far!! I feel so much more confident and like I have a plan and know what the H I'm doing now compared to a few weeks ago! You are on the ball with answering questions for us all, you praise us (and who doesn't respond to a bit of that???), and you put out valuable info that helps us immensely. You are doing a great job, and I think we all feel that way! I feel very fortunate to have found this group, and would like to thank each person on here as well. You are all very special people! To those members missing in action--hey, don't be shy here, tell us your successes, your problems, share your knowledge, or just plain post us a joke or two! We haven't heard from Miler, Hatch, JBrashear in awhile--hope you are all doing okay!! And sorry if I hog this site. I just have a lot of stupid questions to ask (aren't you glad you didn't have to!!!).
2007-05-29 11:00 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

phoenixrising404 - 2007-05-29 8:53 AM Anyway, thanks again, El Capitano Supremo, for being patient with my silly questions and mentoring me. You just have no idea how helpful you've been so far!! I feel so much more confident and like I have a plan and know what the H I'm doing now compared to a few weeks ago! You are on the ball with answering questions for us all, you praise us (and who doesn't respond to a bit of that???), and you put out valuable info that helps us immensely. You are doing a great job, and I think we all feel that way! I feel very fortunate to have found this group, and would like to thank each person on here as well. You are all very special people! To those members missing in action--hey, don't be shy here, tell us your successes, your problems, share your knowledge, or just plain post us a joke or two! We haven't heard from Miler, Hatch, JBrashear in awhile--hope you are all doing okay!! And sorry if I hog this site. I just have a lot of stupid questions to ask (aren't you glad you didn't have to!!!).

Thanks for being appreciative, Pene.  It makes me really happy to know that I've been able to help you and others in this group.  Believe me, I'm getting as much out of this as you are!

2007-05-29 1:00 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Today I received notification that I have been moved off the waiting list for the Holten Triathlon and now have an actual spot; this means that my first triathlon will be on 07 July (holy crap). I have no clue how this is going to go. From the website, which is mostly in Dutch, they have 2 different transition areas and I have no clue how to deal with that. I am hoping that the information packet they send 14 days prior will have some info that I can get translated and will actually help. I think the place is only 2 hours from here so I may also go and check it out sometime in the next few weeks. People told me that doing an Oly for my first tri was a little crazy, but I think I'll be ready. Now I need to start figuring out the logistics and nutrition aspects of doing a triathlon. Anyone have any good suggestions (books/sites) on either?
2007-05-29 1:23 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

Timo - 2007-05-29 1:00 PM Today I received notification that I have been moved off the waiting list for the Holten Triathlon and now have an actual spot; this means that my first triathlon will be on 07 July (holy crap). I have no clue how this is going to go. From the website, which is mostly in Dutch, they have 2 different transition areas and I have no clue how to deal with that. I am hoping that the information packet they send 14 days prior will have some info that I can get translated and will actually help. I think the place is only 2 hours from here so I may also go and check it out sometime in the next few weeks. People told me that doing an Oly for my first tri was a little crazy, but I think I'll be ready. Now I need to start figuring out the logistics and nutrition aspects of doing a triathlon. Anyone have any good suggestions (books/sites) on either?

Tim, Congrats on getting spot, and don't worry. We can answer your questions and help you finalize your training before 07 July!

I've never done a race with 2 different transition areas, but it shouldn't be that big of deal. You'll just have to separate your gear for T1 and T2.

I would try to get as much information about the course as you can, including the exact bike course, turn by turn. If you can get out there soon to try to ride the bike the course, I'd HIGHLY recommend it. It will really help you mentally prepare so there won't be any big surprises come race day. Also, there is no better place than the actual course to do a race simulation brick workout that I can tell you more about if you go.

I'm not quite sure what exactly you meant by "logistics", so please ask a little more specific question, and I can try to help.

As for nutrition, it is definitely important for an OLY as you'll be out there for 2.5 to 3.5+ hours. First of all, try to compute your sweat rate using the test I mentioned before b/c hydration is more important than nutrition. Secondly, find a sports drink that you like the taste of and use it in practice. This drink should have both carbs and electrolytes. You might also consider using some gel product as these are generally easy to digest and provide additional calories. Start with trying to consume 200 - 300 calories per hour, and go up or down from there depending on what you can stomach. Above all, practice executing your nutrition plan in your 1 or 2 key workouts each week.

The cardinal rule of racing is: Don't do anything new on race day! That is, don't try any new drinks, gels, bars, food, pacing strategies, bike gear, etc on race day that you haven't tested and had success with in your "race simulation workouts".



Edited by dgillen 2007-05-29 1:29 PM
2007-05-30 3:19 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Wow, miss a day miss alot....of posts. I am learning quite a bit from all the posts so keep at it. I have a duathon this Saturday 2 mile run/20 mile bike/2.5 run. Should be fun except that my son and I were wrestling last night and he bruised my left side rib cage. I don't think they are cracked or broke. I can breathe with ease, just hurts if I move a certain direction. I have a 1 hour bike scheduled for tonight so we will see hoew it goes. If theres no pain on the bike I will try a short run after.


2007-05-30 5:03 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
KP--far be it for me to offer medical advice here, but if I were you, I would see my friendly neighborhood chiropractor, who will likely be able to determine if you need an x-ray or not. You may indeed have a fracture (more common than you think), or you may just have pulled a muscle, or even popped a rib out of place, and/or thoracic vertebrae. There isn't really a medical treatment unless you have a punctured lung, which it doesn't sound like in your case, so an xray will just be so the DC knows whether or not he/she can safely adjust you now or should wait till it heals better. Just my little two cents worth here! Of course, you can ice it and REST! But tri people are BAD patients because we are stubborn and driven!! If it is not broken, you may just feel better knowing that you won't be causing permanent damage by running and biking your little heart out on Saturday. Good luck with that!! (did you log your wrestling match under "sports"? Might as well get some credit for it!!)
2007-05-30 5:09 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
David, don't know when you are leaving for Alcatraz, but GO GET EM!! Be safe, have fun and tell us every detail when you get back! I think you are more than ready for this!! GO David, GO!!
2007-05-30 8:09 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

phoenixrising404 - 2007-05-30 5:09 PM David, don't know when you are leaving for Alcatraz, but GO GET EM!! Be safe, have fun and tell us every detail when you get back! I think you are more than ready for this!! GO David, GO!!

Thanks for the well wishes Pene.  I'm going to try to fly out there tomorrow AM, but flights look pretty full so I might not get out.  I work for American Airlines as a software engineer so I fly standby for free.  If I don't get out tomorrow, Friday's flights look a little better. 

This will be my first time flying with my bike.  I rented a bike case from a Local Bike Shop (LBS), but it turned out to be beat up pretty bad and has some gaps on the edges when closed.  So, I'm a little worried.  I'm flying with it again in August, and I might have to consider buying a box for that trip. 

I probably won't be able to post much, if at all, this weekend, but please talk amongst yourselves, and I'll catch up on Monday.  

2007-05-30 9:11 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Thanks Pene. I have a chiropractor that I see regularly. Not so much this year, only when something feels out of place. He did a good job on me last year getting my spine and shoulder back in shape. My bike ride tonight was pain free so I am not to worried about the injury. I swim and run tomorrow so I will see how that goes.

David,
Good luck on your race this weekend.

Kevin
2007-06-01 8:46 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Any advice for someone who is going to jump into a pool tomorrow for the first time outside of a pool party with friends and cocktails. Seriously, I haven't swam for any distance, ever......I am going to buy some goggles tonight, but I am really clueless as far as swim workouts or technique. I did check out some of the beginner swim plans on this site as a start. My first tri is scheduled for sept but I am thinking about doing one in august. thanks, Kevin


2007-06-01 9:00 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
The end of May has arrived and I like to evaluate how well I've done in terms of meeting my goals at month's end. My evaluation is that I'm a lot more comfortable outdoors on my bike and am familiar enough with the tri course that I'll be okay that way. I'm also using the trainer more just to get more miles in and that's good, too. I'm absolutely not any faster on the run. Which sucks. My strength improved and my stamina, so at least my legs don't hurt as much with the run, and I can run farther without needing to stop and gasp for air and recover. But I'm still slow. My swim indoors is a lot better than a month ago. BUT......outdoors is entirely a different matter!!

I did another OWS yesterday just by myself after the bike. And the stupid asthma set in about as soon as my feet could no longer touch ground. All nerves this time, as the water was a lot warmer. Not balmy, but I don't think it was cold as much as nerves. I was out there gurgling and coughing. Very labored breathing, so of course I didn't feel up to the crawl. Hard enough to breathe in the water without a gurgle cough each time. So, I did side and back swims and that made it VERY slow. Mercy! I did realize that my tri group was doing a .9 mile swim, not just an 800 yard swim as I originally thought. So, just go out to that rock across shore and back was NOT a 400, but more like a 800 and they were all doing it twice. No wonder I got half way to the rock and wanted to turn back. I did so yesterday, and it still took me like 22 minutes. Normally indoors I can do a 400 in 8-9 minutes. So, I'm pretty sure I'm not wrong about the distance they were trying to make us all do! Sneaky little iron creeps!! Our president took first overall last year at the tri--not just for his age group. Geesh. I need to find some slower beginner types to hang with!

Then I tried to run on my track (it's the school track, but I call it MINE). And the track kids were all out there. I got another asthma attack or panic attack or whatever. I just have so many darn insecurities about people seeing me struggle with this stuff. I want to be an antelope and run like the wind, swim like a shark and bike like Lance Armstrong. Even though I'm a 40 year old asthmatic who never did any of this stuff before and just thinks she should be able to go out there with all the beautiful people and actually keep up with them! No pressure!!

Anyone else suffer from nerve issues with this stuff?? Should I take up drinking or something??? I'm going to go out several times now and do that stupid swim to convince myself that I can do it. It's just because there isn't a wall to get to to rest on. All psychological. The running thing is because when I was a kid I didn't know I had asthma. So I would get an attack every year for that presidential challenge 600 y dash thing and it was SOOOO embarrassing. And so I have an aversion to running in front of young people because of the fear of having an attack and having them wonder what in the world is wrong with me. So, naturally, I have one!! Mercy.....
2007-06-01 9:40 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
phoenixrising404 - 2007-06-01 10:00 AM

Anyone else suffer from nerve issues with this stuff?? Should I take up drinking or something??? I'm going to go out several times now and do that stupid swim to convince myself that I can do it. It's just because there isn't a wall to get to to rest on. All psychological. The running thing is because when I was a kid I didn't know I had asthma. So I would get an attack every year for that presidential challenge 600 y dash thing and it was SOOOO embarrassing. And so I have an aversion to running in front of young people because of the fear of having an attack and having them wonder what in the world is wrong with me. So, naturally, I have one!! Mercy.....


Pene,
I understand what you are going through. I have had some of the same issues, all pshycological. On some of my training runs or races as soon as I was off the pavement in grass my HR would go way up, sounds weird but the tought of more resistance, i.e. grass, would cause this reaction. I used to swim at the Y, I would be doing fine and then get a glimpse of the lifeguard watching me and would immediately feel under pressure to perform without flaw which of course caused me to flounder in the water. With continued practice and teaching I will eventually overcome this. It just takes patience.
2007-06-01 9:44 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Kevin,
I am basically in the same boat as you are. I ordered the total immersion dvd and I am just working on the drills. All I do now at the pool is drills with some backstroke and breast stroke (more of a recovery stroke for me). I have only been swimming for about 2-3 months twice a week. Getting a coach is the next step, just to analyze your stroke and help you swim correctly.




2007-06-01 9:48 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

Based on the minutes only Oly plan from BT I my May goals should have been:

Swim - 34000 yds (Actual 22305)

Bike - 250 miles (Actual 364.19)

Run - 50 miles (Actual 37.83)

As you can see my actual vs planned is all over the place.  The main reason my bike is higher is that I did the MS150 in Dallas so that was 150 miles in 2 days.  Because of this my run numbers were lower and swimming, well I just could not get out of bed a few days.  No excuses, I was just too tired.  Overall, I am pretty happy with my month.  I was able to get 3 OWS in.  First one went badly as I did not do much actual swimming.  The next 2 went really well, 1.5 miles both went extremely well but there was only a few people so I am not sure how I will do in a crowd.

Pene,

Personally the only time I have ever had a panic attack was my first OWS.  Other than that I could really care less what somebody thinks when they see me.  I do this for me and if a bunch of kids want to laugh let them (This is kind of the Dr. Phil approach or Suck it up Buttercup approach).  I don't have ashama (can't even spell it) so I don't know what it is like dealing with it but remember millions of people have it and I am sure several professional athletes have it and perform at a high level.  I am willing to bet your nerves trigger the attacks and not the other way around.  If you get over the panic attacks I bet your ashama get better during workouts.  (Hope that did not sound bad/rude, I come from the tough love approach).  I figure when I am training, half the time I am wearing spandex, which looks rediculous so people have a reason to laugh.   One thing that definately helped me get faster running was buying a Garmin Forerunner.  I constantly pushed my self to get faster and run longer almost to a point to where I did too much.  Track workouts, even a few helped me drop quite a bit of time.  I was always fairly quick in that I could generally break a 10:00 pace (my slowest 5K is 31:00 but I was sick).  I am generally in the 22:00ish range now, which is not blazing but decent in my mind.

Remember, just don't give an "f" what others think.  They are probably driving in their car eating double cheese burger and large fry while you are on the track.

Best of Luck.

 

2007-06-01 12:51 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Thanks for the pep talk guys! I know I've been super tired lately. Been pushing hard the last 4 days or so and yesterday I could really feel that I was on the "edge". It was also a full moon! My sister has allergies/asthma and was telling me she can definitely feel a change in breathing with the moon. I never really considered it before. I suppose it is just one more thing on top of a rather big stress pile. At least I am discovering these mental issues before the race day! Which gives me some time to manage them!

I'm remembering all the other things in my life that I had difficulty handling at first: fear of the dark when I was little--not just a little fear, a BIG one! Learning to drive--it really scared me at first because I used to have nightmares about crashing. I'm sensitive and can tell how people are without them saying or doing anything, so if someone doesn't like me, I can tell it instantly--you know, the undercurrents that are present in social situations. I wish I didn't notice those things, but I notice EVERYTHING. It's the hunter/gatherer in me, I guess. My ancestors were clearly not farmer types--they were warrior/hunters and had to notice their surroundings to survive. Delivering my first adjustment in front of the Staff Doctors--Mercy! That was a terrible thing to overcome!! Child birth, natural, no drugs--THREE times! Surviving divorce--that one is something no person should have to deal with. Talk about nastiness, even in the most amicable situations. We won't even go into Self-employment......not for the meek of heart. There are weeks where you barely scrape by, and others where you go out and buy your new tribike without a second thought. And nothing in between it seems. I haven't mastered the fine art of economic security.......

So, in the scheme of things, I guess this one is Mafi Mushkila (Arabic for "no problem")! All I have to do is manage my breathing and nerves and make my body move until I cross that finish line. Then, I'll truly consider myself a triathlete. And my great grandkids won't remember that I finished last or whatever. They'll just remember that their fiesty old granny was once a crazy tri chick!!

I hope my self pep talks help you guys, too. We have to learn some strategies and put things into perspective!

My goal for June is to complete three IM distances in my training for the month. At the endurance seminar, the Ph.D's said something about the rule of 3's: For beginners, you need to complete three times your race distance for the month for at least three consecutive months. It will be quite a jump for me, but.......whatever it takes!!! Anyone else up for that as a goal this month??? We'll have to whine to eachother now and then and then ladel on the praise when we complete it (or die trying).


2007-06-01 12:54 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Could not agree more with KP. No-one else has the right to comment, as we are out there trying to do something positive and lets not forget the buzz from that fact alone. Those who laugh are those that would have the balls to give it a go and see obstacles, not challenges.

Good luck David, look forward to hearing about it on your return.
2007-06-01 1:00 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
PocketRocket - 2007-06-01 6:54 PM

Could not agree more with KP. No-one else has the right to comment, as we are out there trying to do something positive and lets not forget the buzz from that fact alone. Those who laugh are those that would have the balls to give it a go and see obstacles, not challenges.

Good luck David, look forward to hearing about it on your return.


I meant 'wouldn't have the balls' !!!!
2007-06-01 7:26 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Thanks Pocket for the encouragement. I'm feeling a bit better. Taking it easy tonight and eating well (healthy spinach, carrots, cottage cheese, eggs). I was going to have my mom come and watch the tri with my kids. Nix that. I think I will have a lot less pressure if they are not there. I won't have to be concerned that the three kids are bored and driving her crazy, it's too hot, or whatever. I can just go, do my thing and concentrate on finishing.

Anyone have any suggestions for wetsuit fit?? Mine is sleeveless and just too blasted cold for temps below 72. And it chokes me. My throat is still feeling bruised today. Eating carrots and the like feels scratchy on it. Maybe that's where the bloody mucous came from yesterday??? So, I'm gonna bite the bullet and look at other full sleeved wetsuits tomorrow. More expense, but if I can breathe better in one, then it's worth it! Part of the learning curve I guess. Do they ALL feel so tight on the throat??? I'm running out of time to go shopping online for one, so whatever types they have at the bike shop will be my only options. Other than putting up with the one I have. That and I can't zip it up by myself, so maybe it's a bit too small??
2007-06-02 6:24 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Pene

I could care less what strangers think of me and would suggest that you try to incorporate this sentimate into your mental training sessions. You are training to better yourself and to be a better Mom and that's all that matters. Asthma attacks happen and since you are an asthmatic, I am sure that you know relaxation techniques and albuterol are the keys to overcoming any attack; be prepared and you'll be fine. With your tri coming up soon (June 10?) now is not the time to make a big jump in your training times. Stick with what you've been doing and make sure to take it easy the few days before. I'm off to my vacation tomorrow and so I hope you all have a great week.
2007-06-02 6:32 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Thanks Tim. Have a great vacation. I wish I could get the hang of this relaxation stuff. I have a massage scheduled next week for myself and I will take it easy this week (which is why my goal isn't FOUR IM distances for June!) I'm my own worst enemy. Very very very hard on myself. Must be the Leo on the cusp of Virgo with Scorpio Moon and Rising, eh? (Gotta blame it on something!)


2007-06-02 11:14 AM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

Dave,

 I have a dilema.  I just found out that Dallas Athletes is discounting the Disco Tri for people who got rained out of Captex so the Disco and Ironhead are basically the same price now but the Disco is a week earlier.  Any suggestions on what I should do.  On one hand with the disco tri it is a week earlier so it give me one more week to to train for Praireman plus it is a different course so I would not do the same course 3 times this summer.  with the Ironhead race it would give me the advantage of doing the course in prep for praireman plus one more week to train for the race.  I am leaning towards doing the disco tri if work permits so I have the extra week before praireman plus for the different course.  Also, it sounds like the disco tri has more festivities afte the race plus the swim is a little longer (1 mile compared to .92 so a little closer to HIM distance.)

Hope all went well at alcatraz.

2007-06-02 9:57 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Kproudfoot--I'm not David, but it sounds to me like you've answered your own question. Go with your gut on this one!

Good news!! Not only did my run WITH spectators and WITHOUT my inhaler go well today, but I got a new wetsuit that is a DREAM fit-wise (we just won't talk about the price). And my friend Tracy went with me to get another OWS in today just before a torrential rain!! And it went GREAT! About 10 minutes, which is of course slower than in a pool, but I'm happy. I even forgot my nose plug at first, but went back for it! No asthma!! Yeah!!



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2007-06-03 5:11 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL

Looks like Dave finished Escape from Alcatraz in 2:51:48 seconds and finished 63 of 163 in his age group.

 Great job Dave!! Did you see any sea lions or sharks?

2007-06-03 7:50 PM
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Subject: RE: David Gillen's Group - FULL
Wow! Fearless Leader, you kicked redbike!!!! Just qualifying for Alcatraz is really up there with Kona! I saw the picture with everyone jumping off the boat--too cool! And you said you aren't much of a swimmer----yeah right!!

Can't wait for your full report--and don't leave out any juicy details about whatever fun you might have had in San Fran, too!! I'd be partying after (and I can't even drink more than half a wine cooler and I'm under the table giggling uncontrollably--terrible lightweight here).

I hope you got pictures! Come on, show off for us!!
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