Come fly with me!- Closed again with a bunch of winners! (Page 13)

Jeff,
I am no expert but I would think it would depend on how much you train and if you do bricks. Probably the faster you run, the more you may slow down percentage wise. Also, probably depends on how hard you do the bike portion, if you finish exhausted the run will be tough. I'm a slow runner, and I don't notice that much of a loss on pace during a race on the run. I think there are a lot of factors that can play into your question. Others will probably have better answers, I'm just taking a stab and what seems logical.

This is a semi hard question to answer because everyone is different. Some people perform better in race situations and others do not at all and everyone else is in between (how's that for vague?) For me my race paces are much faster than my practice paces (with the exception of the swim, I always am slow there). I think I would look at what aspect of the sport do you enjoy most. For me I love to compete. So on race day I try to go pretty hard. I will say this too though. Like Karen said, your performance will greatly depend on your training. I think technique is far more important than speed and when it comes down to it you will perform how you have practiced. If you practice bricks then they will go smoothly in a race and your body will adjust from one discipline to another pretty easily. If you have a hilly course, practice hills etc etc etc.

I hope the above helps. Let me know if you want me to expand on this more.

I have. I did one running last fall. I assume when you say lap button that you are using a HRM? If you do a LT fairly accurately then you won't have anything left really to do the rest of the 10k just so you know. I would just treat the last of the race as a cool down. Good for you for doing it though as that information will help your training. I have the zone breakdown too if you want it. I will try to scan it in this weekend and just post it on here. Its interesting if nothing else.

Let us know how it goes.

I'm happy to report I finished my 10k race in under 55 minutes, which means that I get a seeded # for the Peachtree Road Race. Not the super good seeded #, but a seeded # none the less and up towards the front.

For those of you that don't know about the Peachtree Road Race - it's a 10k race held on July 4th with 55,000 other runners. People line the entire course, offering beer, donuts, water, etc. I heard that the # of spectators is something like 100,000 people. Anyway, with 55,000 runners, if you don't have a # towards the front it can take your corral (yes, something like 9 corrals total) an hour just to get to the start from when the race officially starts. And Atlanta in July is not pleasant so the quicker you get the start the quicker you get to finish. So I'm very excited about that.

I also used my new Garmin 305 and have heart rate readings. I'm not sure what they mean yet. Most of the time it was ranging between 181 - 183. Slightly less if it was a downhill, slightly more on uphills, but a majority of the time between those numbers.

Scott - can you look at my log and see what numbers I would plug into the calculator you have. I'm very interested in finding out what my zones would be for training. Or anyone else chime in too, I seriously hope I can use this data to find my zones - I don't want to have to push myself that hard again for a while. = )

Jeff,
I may be repeating what the others have said, but one factor is how close your training conditions are to your race conditions. If you are running on a treadmill in training and outdoors for the race, it will be hard to know what to expect. If you are training in hills, and the race is flat then you will be faster.

I am not as naturally athletic as Scott, but even I tend to be slightly faster in races than in training. I also tend to choose flat courses to race.

Karen,
I have never taken a LT test, but I want to someday. There is one very important heart rate number that I have figured out...the vomit number (VN). I tend to throw up when I exert too hard for too long. I have used my HRM to figure out what my VN is. I try to back off some when my heartrate gets too close to VN. Unfortunately, I am not always successful and sometimes I don't wear my HRM.

Congratulations on a great run today!

VN - Ha! You crack me up, too bad you don't live near me. I think we would have fun hanging out.
I have only trained on RPE but it seems so many people train using zones and it is supposed to help with endurance and speed. Once I figure out my # and start to train in zones, I will let you know if I see any changes.

Hi Karen and group,
First Karen nice job on the race. Sounds like a lot of fun.

Here are your zones as I am able to calculate them. These are a little ballpark but should get you close.

Zone 1 - 119-148 Low intensity. This is also your fat burning and oxygen absorption zone. This zone teaches your body to take in oxygen more efficiently and also burn fat at a higher rate. During this zone you should be able to easily hold a conversation.

Zone 2 - 148-161 Moderate intensity. Improves overall conditioning and endurance because you can usually maintain this intensity for a while. Most time should be spent in this zone.

Zone 3 - 161-169 Higher intensity. Used to improve aerobic capacity while introducing an anaerobic component. Lactic acid is produced but in small quantities. Training here raises anaerobic threshold and tolerance to lactic acid.

Zone 4 - 169-180 High intensity zone. Speed work and interval training. Training here improves sports performance but use it carefully with full rest periods between workouts to avoid over trainng.

Zone 5 - 180-181 Max capacity training. Hard intervals or near end of performance. Used very little and for short periods of time.

*This information is summarized from Real Rehab Physical Therapy in Seattle, WA*

I hope this info is helpful to everyone. I tried to give the when, why and how much as well so you can see how to use zones. The numbers given are pretty specific to Karen. If you do a LT let me know and I can figure the zones for you also. It is a great training tool.

Jeff,
We are glad you are part of our group and glad it helps you out.

I know what an LT test is, but I don't know how to do one. Can someone post the directions? I would love to have my training zones. I am kind of estimating them now.

Karen, we would definitely have fun hanging/working out together. The next time I drive to Alabama, maybe I can plan to stop near you. It is a shame we don't all live close enough to have a "Team Holt" workout session.

Hi Cole,
I just did one last week and here is what my helper told me to do. 15' warm up run at a slow pace. Then do a couple 10 second warm up fast pace runs where you run 10 seconds at 5k pace followed by 50 second recovery. Gets the blood flowing. Then run for 30 minutes at a pace you can maintain for the whole time. Better to start off slow than blow up and finish slow. After 10 minutes hit your lap button on your HR and record the next 20 minutes. Then cool down for 10 minutes at a slow pace again. After all that if you want to get me your average HR for the 20 minutes I will get the figures for you on your zones. At the end of the 20 minute test you should be questioning the sanity of even doing a cool down because your so tired. It is a pretty hard effort.

Meeting somewhere would be a blast. We could do a "destination" race somewhere and just meet there.Might take some planning but I am game. I'll buy dinner.

I haven't posted a question in a while and this one hit me this morning in the pool.

"What is your biggest road block in training? What causes you the most difficulty in reaching your goals, whatever they may be?"

For me it is definately my mind. I can talk myself out of or around a workout faster than anybody. Even in mid workout I can talk myself out of doing the rest. "Water's too cold, Im tired or sore, it snowed a week ago and the road may be slick, its too close to meal time, I have too much to do" or my personal favorite "I need more recovery time" I am learning to work around this by recognizing these thoughts as they casually drift in and letting them drift out again but it is definately not easy for me.

How about you?

Team Holt - what a great idea! I vote for somewhere in the...Atlanta area.

Let me know when you pass through, that would be fun.

Scott - on the LT test you posted. I have read that one and it seems to be the most popular amoung people I've asked.

I'm someone who has no idea about pacing, and I either don't push myself hard enough, or I push too hard and die before the finish.

So, keeping that in mind, do I just do the warm up as you say, then start the 30 minute running as what I think would be something I could maintain for 30 but am not sure? I guess I'm worried that I will go to fast, at 10 minutes in hit the button to start the 20 minute test, and during that 20 minute test really slow down. But will it matter if I'm still giving it everything I have regardless of how much my pace changes, because my heart rate will still be high from being so tired? Does that make sense?

I was just thinking this morning how we have not had our weekly question(s) and here one is! I like these.

My biggest road block is not having confidence in myself. Mostly when it comes to running. You would think since I started out running and picked up triathlons years later that I would be most confident in my running. But I'm not at all. I think that's why I really like triathlons because I can swim and bike much more competitively than I can run.

For example - most of my friends are runners, they have no interest in doing triathlons. They are much better runners than I am. I have a hard time keeping up with them, they are much faster than I am. So I generally run on my own, or with my dog Marlo (who wishes I ran faster too I think) and I'm fine with that. Give me my dog and my ipod and I'm good to go. But, I know that when I run with my friends I push myself harder and do start running faster so I think it's good for me to do.

I need to find a balance of having confidence in what ability I do have, plan some runs with my friends so I can improve my pace a little, and not worry so much about feeling like I'm holding them back.

My recommendation is do the first alf of the LT at a slower pace than you think you need to and if you have it left in you hit the last ten minutes a little harder. Do remember though that this is not a measure of pace or speed but of effort. In my next post I have some running comments that actually might help a little.

This is a great segway into some things I have been learning on the videos I mentioned earlier. I watched the section about running and two key points stuck out.

1: No matter how fast you are going your running cadence should not change. The recommended cadence is around 92 +/- strides per minute. A stride is every time a left or right foot hits the ground. So Left, right, left, right counts as 2. If you are doing a warm up or cool down your cadence is the same as doing a zone 3 run and trying to hustle down the road. Length of stride is what changes. Think of a car going up a hill. You shift down to keep the engine rpm up so the car doesn't have to work harder to pull the hill. Cadence for running is much the same. When running up a hill, your cadence should stay the same. the steps just get shorter.

2: Your thumbs should be able to touch the waist band of your shorts and be relaxed. He said you should be able to hold a potato chip in your hand while you run and not break it. Any time you are tense while exercising you are burning excess energy. Try to relax unused muscles. Save them for when you need them.

Especially when you start out I recommend you not go right to a 92 cadence. First figure out where you are at and from there build up. If you are at 74 maybe go up to 78-80. It can be tough to retrain your body to do something new. Today I counted my cadence about every three minutes. It not only helped the time pass by but also helped a lot in keeping my pace consistent.

He mentioned a lot of other stuff but these were a couple of points that I tried on the run today. It definately felt different.

Let us know what you think.

Edited by holt1997 2009-02-23 10:35 PM

Not knowing what I should be doing is what holds me back most from training. There are so many different things I could be working on....pace, speed, distance, etc. Sometimes I just don't know what the best training plan should be. I also am a social exerciser which means that I work at the level of my partners. I made a promise to never miss an opportunity to work out with a friend or family member, which means that I can't always follow my individual plan. Sometimes it means that I have multiple workouts in a day.

Karen, you aren't a slow runner. You just have fast friends. You need to find some slower friends to round out your circle.

Scott, I can't wait to try your running technique. I think I will change it a little though. Instead of holding a potato chip in my hand, I will hold the whole bag. I imagine there won't be anything left in the bag when I am finished with my run.

Well eating a whole bag of potato chips could definately have an effect on your running performance....just not sure it will be a good effect. I like your thinking though. If we ran together sometime would you share? (I prefer doritos)

Scott,
I did the LT test on the treadmill today. My husband was on the treadmill beside me in case I hit my VN number or passed out before I finished. (I also think he wanted some of the potato chips I was mentally holding.) My average HR for the 20 minutes you told me to record was 180. The highest number I saw was 187. The test was really not fun. I kept thinking that I had to finish because I didn't want to have to do this thing again. I kept thinking about Karen...her numbers intimidated me, I don't know how she kept up the pace she did for 55 minutes last Sunday. I hope you can plug those numbers into your formula.

Hi Cole,
Here you go on the zones. Please do remember that these are not absolute and zones also change as fitness changes.

Zone 1 - 118-147
Zone 2 - 147-160
Zone 3 - 160 - 169
Zone 4 - 169-180
Zone 5 180-182

I hope that helps. I think yours is pretty close to Karen's. It is amazing you can eat potato chips on a run and not reach your VN. Nice work!!!

Chuck - I understand the cold weather thing. (Yes, it does get cold in Atlanta!) I used to love the cold weather, in the teens or 20 degrees was perfect for me when it came to running. This year I have whimped out big time. I still force myself out the door, but it gets harder and harder. What helps me is to plan to run with someone else. I can't very well back out if someone is waiting on me.